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(excerpted from above) Denis Tajer, pilot and spokesperson for the American Airlines pilot union, told the Associated Press: "It is something we did not have before in any of our training. It wasn't in our books. American didn't have it. Now I have to wonder what else is there?" Jon Weaks, president of the pilots' union at Southwest Airlines, claimed ... in an interview with the WSJ: "We're pissed that Boeing didn't tell the companies, and the pilots didn't get notice."
@hank: I thought the 737 crash might catch your eye.
We visited the Boeing factory in Everett last August, but the 737's are not built there, but in Renton. Amazing place. I doubt the tour guide is bragging about the appreciation in BA these last few days.
You may know of William Langewiesche's articles on crashes; the best I've read is on the Air France disaster, especially as the probable cause of that one is closely linked to the current thinking on the 737MAX crash, i.e., the pitot tubes. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash
The question that comes up on the Vanity Fair site is, "Should Airplanes Be Flying Themselves?" You gotta wonder...
@BemWP, Thanks. Haven’t checked out your links yet, but will. As you know the 737 is an indefatigable workhorse of the industry and a highly reliable, safe plane. It would be concerning if Boeing let something like the (new) auto-correct feature slip through the cracks in the floor when they wrote the new manual.
FWIW - I’ve done some past research on the AF crash. Chilling tapes of the cockpit conversations leading up to their flying the plane (unknowingly) into the Atlantic in the night.
On another level, this reminds me a bit of driving the new car. Many features seem designed to “think” and operate the vehicle in place of the driver. The auto-traction feature, which is on by default, is especially concerning. I’m wondering what will happen the first time the right front wheel encounters a foot or two of deep snow along the shoulder at low speed. Normally, I’d counter-steer and spin-up the front wheels to dig my way out of the crud and back onto the cleared part of the road. But as I read the manual, the front wheels might stop turning completely once the automated system detects a loss of traction. While I understand the concept, that’s a good way to end up in the ditch in these parts.
(PS - Ben, I recall you own a similar make & model and that you have expressed some frustration in the past re how the auto-brake feature operates.)
When I was in my 20s I obtained my instrument & commercial rated pilots licenses. That training qualified me to work as an FAA air-traffic controller, which I did for a few years. I mention this only to establish that I have some residual knowledge in this area.
Naturally I've followed this Boeing situation with great interest, as I try to follow all major aircraft accidents and air-traffic control incidents. All I can say at the present time, based on the information released so far, is that Boeing must have been completely out of their minds on this one.
"Let's make some major changes in automation, allow the aircraft to override pilot control during critical maneuvers, and let's not tell anyone about all of this. Pilots don't need to know about this stuff- we know a lot more about this airplane than they ever will, and besides, these changes are designed to compensate for poor piloting anyway and our computers are better than a lot of pilots."
Total hubris. Total negligence. Terminal stupidity.
Comments
We visited the Boeing factory in Everett last August, but the 737's are not built there, but in Renton. Amazing place. I doubt the tour guide is bragging about the appreciation in BA these last few days.
"Skyfaring" (https://www.amazon.com/Skyfaring-Journey-Pilot-Mark-Vanhoenacker-ebook/dp/B00N6PCX60) must be one of the best books ever written about flying.
You may know of William Langewiesche's articles on crashes; the best I've read is on the Air France disaster, especially as the probable cause of that one is closely linked to the current thinking on the 737MAX crash, i.e., the pitot tubes.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash
The question that comes up on the Vanity Fair site is, "Should Airplanes Be Flying Themselves?" You gotta wonder...
FWIW - I’ve done some past research on the AF crash. Chilling tapes of the cockpit conversations leading up to their flying the plane (unknowingly) into the Atlantic in the night.
On another level, this reminds me a bit of driving the new car. Many features seem designed to “think” and operate the vehicle in place of the driver. The auto-traction feature, which is on by default, is especially concerning. I’m wondering what will happen the first time the right front wheel encounters a foot or two of deep snow along the shoulder at low speed. Normally, I’d counter-steer and spin-up the front wheels to dig my way out of the crud and back onto the cleared part of the road. But as I read the manual, the front wheels might stop turning completely once the automated system detects a loss of traction. While I understand the concept, that’s a good way to end up in the ditch in these parts.
(PS - Ben, I recall you own a similar make & model and that you have expressed some frustration in the past re how the auto-brake feature operates.
Naturally I've followed this Boeing situation with great interest, as I try to follow all major aircraft accidents and air-traffic control incidents. All I can say at the present time, based on the information released so far, is that Boeing must have been completely out of their minds on this one.
"Let's make some major changes in automation, allow the aircraft to override pilot control during critical maneuvers, and let's not tell anyone about all of this. Pilots don't need to know about this stuff- we know a lot more about this airplane than they ever will, and besides, these changes are designed to compensate for poor piloting anyway and our computers are better than a lot of pilots."
Total hubris. Total negligence. Terminal stupidity.