Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
I proudly salute our brave military on this July 4th celebration. Here is a Link to a fine musical salute:
McDermott armed forces medley
I hope you enjoyed these songs that pay respect to all our military branches. Actually, I salute our military each and every day. Their acknowledged power alone keeps us safe.
And that same album had the very best anti war song I ever heard. It's called "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda". Hopefully I'll be more successful this time around. Here is my attempt to recover it on Utube:
I hope you enjoyed these songs that pay respect to all our military branches. Actually, I salute our military each and every day. Their acknowledged power alone keeps us safe.
So much for diplomacy with other nations, democracy and individual rights. The Fourth of July is meant to be a celebration of America's Declaration of Independence, not its military might. Veteran's and Memorial Day are military holidays. So tomorrow I'll salute one of America's great documents espousing a belief in democracy. Here is an excerpt:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Among the accusations against the King of England in the Declaration were the following:
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
So the civil power and the consent of the governed takes precedence over the military in a functioning democracy.
And these complaints against the King sound all too familiar today:
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
and:
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
I submit that our Declaration of Independence would have been a failed document assigned to the dustbin of history without a volunteer army of citizens who almost without exception leaped to support it. Something like a 100% of men did volunteer at that time. Wow!!!
Even after many dubious defeats, the Brits had opportunities to crush the untrained freedom fighters. There were critical turning points that could have changed the final outcome. Even George Washington recognized his shortcomings as a military leader. We did overcome!
So I.'ll join you in saluting one of America's great documents, but I will also salute our military men for their never falling effort to protect and keep it alive. Our military forces are terrific!
I submit that our Declaration of Independence would have been a failed document assigned to the dustbin of history without a volunteer army of citizens who almost without exception leaped to support it. Something like a 100% of men did volunteer at that time. Wow!!!
Um, no. I'm beginning to think you just make stuff up:
Indeed you are correct in stating that some fraction of the men in our Revolutionary War were loyalist. They fought against us, so I indeed overstated that 100% of the men took up arms to fight against the British. Given the final outcome, however, the loyalist had to be a small percentage.
So I checked a few sources. Of course, any quoted percentage must be a little soft given the uncertanties and records of that time. The resources that I visited put the loyalist percentages between 15% and 20%. Allow me to amend my too optimistic 100% guess to the more realistic estimates. About .80 to 85% of our manpower at that time fought for freedom from the Brits.
Sorry about that. I wouldn't want to lose you as a critical reader who thinks I "make stuff up". That's an unkind and inaccurate charge. But I hold no grudges. I never make up stuff but I am wrong at times. What a surprise!!!!
So I checked a few sources. Of course, any quoted percentage must be a little soft given the uncertanties and records of that time. The resources that I visited put the loyalist percentages between 15% and 20%. Allow me to amend my too optimistic 100% guess to the more realistic estimates. About .80 to 85% of our manpower at that time fought for freedom from the Brits.
So I checked a few sources. Of course, any quoted percentage must be a little soft given the uncertanties and records of that time. The resources that I visited put the loyalist percentages between 15% and 20%. Allow me to amend my too optimistic 100% guess to the more realistic estimates. About .80 to 85% of our manpower at that time fought for freedom from the Brits.
Sorry about that. I wouldn't want to lose you as a critical reader who thinks I "make stuff up". That's an unkind and inaccurate charge
So then where does that 80-85% come from? Surely not everyone who wasn't a Tory took up arms for the cause, regardless of whether they supported it or were more ambivalent?
"Many men preferred to remain home, in the safety of what Gen. George Washington described as their “Chimney Corner. ...As 1776 progressed, many colonies were compelled to entice soldiers with offers of cash bounties, clothing, blankets and extended furloughs ... The following year ... offers of cash and land bounties became an absolute necessity. By the end of 1778, most states were conscripting men when Congress’ voluntary enlistment quotas were not met."
It is somehow so American to look backward and fantasize in excelsis about purity of motive, courage, singlemindedness, and all similar.
No wonder so much of the rest of the world thinks we are still adolescents, and, now with the new guy, destined to remain so.
I read this long ago in the paper and it stuck with me:
David Game, a software executive from Reading, England, "was taught in school that the British spent lots of money defending the Americans against the French. And the Americans decided to up and leave when we asked them to spend a little money on taxes. They weren't willing to help themselves. The English were not so terrible and hateful. We were not at our best then, and the Americans should have been much more grateful, and stuck with us. Whatever the holiday, Americans go out and buy things. And when you ask them what the holiday is about, they have a slim grip on what is being commemorated."
I'm so very tired of borders and passports, myself. I qualify for two, and hold both..... But my real citizenship is not geographically fixed. I do indeed recognize the sacrifice and bravery of those in uniform on a day like the 4th of July. There would not be a US military if we did not win the Revolution. Lots of men back then did not serve. Along the line somewhere in my school daze, I recall a 30% figure quoted. 30% of men in the colonies fought that war for independence vs. the British and their Hessians. Please don't ask me where that came from. I don't recall. But I did not make it up, either. And those in uniform don't have the chance to just say "No, I won't go," even when a conflict is stupid and pointless.
The US military has and continues to serve us well and honorably. I was a member of the active Army for two years and as a member of the Army Reserves for another three years. I'm sure my bias is dominated by those duty assignments. I was proud to serve and I learned plenty. I've been a private citizen for many years now.
I'm somewhat surprised by what I interpret as an anti-military sentiment. Why? The military does dangerous, dirty duty, and does it predictably and reliably well. Indeed, I salute them.
Thank you for expressing yourselves in a forthright and possibly unpopular manner. Did you enjoy the music? That was why I originally posted.
Really, really good anti-war song, indeed. The ANZACs got crucified At Suvla/Gallipoli. Churchill bears a lot of the blame with the planning, strategy and tactics. He was in the Admiralty, if that's the correct word, directing the naval war. My grandfather was mustard-gassed in The Great War. USA, rank of seargent. Led his platoon through the shit and was decorated. My father was USMC. He was in there just in time to serve an extra "Truman year" required by HST with the Korean War going on.
@MJG I guess the question I would ask is why isn't celebrating the Declaration of Independence enough? It is arguably one of the great world documents that has influenced a number of other nations in their pursuit of democracy and independence from authoritarian monarchical rule. Why take a holiday meant to celebrate the founders' democratic invention and turn it into a celebration of the military when the military already has two holidays of its own to celebrate or commemorate it? The notion that without the military there is no liberty and it is the only thing that keeps us safe as opposed to smart diplomacy is actually a sentiment familiar to police states, and a military force can just as easily be used to oppress a people as protect it. The military has its place and is honored in two other holidays. Why hijack this one for it? This was a day meant to celebrate the mightiness of the pen and great ideas, not the sword. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_(United_States)
Independence Day, also referred to as the Fourth of July or July Fourth, is a federal holiday in the United States commemorating the adoption of the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776. The Continental Congress declared that the thirteen American colonies regarded themselves as a new nation, the United States of America, and were no longer part of the British Empire.[1] The Congress actually voted to declare independence two days earlier, on July 2.[1]
This is absolutely not a commentary on any connection between Independence Day and military activity. However, having recently visited the American Military Cemetery at Omaha Beach, this story is riveting:
"Sometimes a high school history project ends up making history. That's what happened when a 16-year-old Nebraska student decided to participate in the National History Day project in 2015.
Partly due to her research, the bodies of two American twin brothers, separated at death during World War II, were finally reunited."
I started to write something along those lines this morning but gave up. Couldn’t get it right. You’ve expressed it very well. I’m turned-off by emphasis on one’s military service and the whole idea of celebrating militarism. John McCain, genuine war hero that he is, has never flaunted his distinguished service to the nation. He’d probably agree with something along the lines, “If you‘ve got it there’s no need to flaunt it.” Others may tout his service, but he doesn’t need to. I think the same can be said for nations as well as men.
Like you, when I think about the 4th, I think about the beautiful persuasive arguments Jefferson advanced for the separation from England. So eloquently worded. With considerable help from English philosopher John Locke before him, Jefferson laid out the principles of a democratic society. They are noble principles which neither Jefferson nor those who followed him have always been able to live up to. But they are noble nonetheless, something to aspire to. They are the very bedrock that make America, along with her democratic allies around the world, worthy of praise and celebration.
Like so many other MFO posts, the current one took unexpected directions. It was originally designed to simply present a medley of military songs. I had no hidden agenda. It was a direct submittal without any deep and buried motivations. I was not trying to influence anyone on anything. I hoped it would be just entertaining.
It was not recognized as such by a few MFO contributors. That's just too bad. I suggest that we close with a revisit to that singular goal.
I was especially moved by the lone bugle and drum arrangement that introduced the Marine Hymn portion of the medley. It's impact on me was bone chilling.
Please give it a try if the many posts distracted you from it. It's terrific. Your positive or negative comments are always welcomed and appreciated.
>> Is it condescending, or passive-aggressive ....
Why not both?
In a respectful vein, my grandpa Sherwood often said that the 'best' and proudest part of his 97y life, including family and social service as a missionary, was being a Marine.
Maybe it’s just me. I love the videos, music, links etc. folks put up. Put up quite a few myself. But I’ll always opt for intelligent conversation given that choice.
You guys show a ton of chutzpah in purportedly analyzing my posts in such a biased manner. Your posts about me, and not the content and references of these posts, say much more about you and not me.
I just returned from watching an inspired fireworks display funded by my city. It was thrilling and included exciting ground works. I did have a grand Fourth. I always do while sharing it with my relatives. Thank you for asking.
Comments
Happy 4th,
Ted
Many thanks and Best Wishes.
And that same album had the very best anti war song I ever heard. It's called "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda". Hopefully I'll be more successful this time around. Here is my attempt to recover it on Utube:
And these complaints against the King sound all too familiar today: and: Here is a link to the entire Declaration:
https://archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript
Thanks for your enlightening contribution.
I submit that our Declaration of Independence would have been a failed document assigned to the dustbin of history without a volunteer army of citizens who almost without exception leaped to support it. Something like a 100% of men did volunteer at that time. Wow!!!
Even after many dubious defeats, the Brits had opportunities to crush the untrained freedom fighters. There were critical turning points that could have changed the final outcome. Even George Washington recognized his shortcomings as a military leader. We did overcome!
So I.'ll join you in saluting one of America's great documents, but I will also salute our military men for their never falling effort to protect and keep it alive. Our military forces are terrific!
Best Wishes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalists_fighting_in_the_American_Revolution
https://usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/06/27/why-the-patriots-really-fought
americanrevolution.org/blk.php
Indeed you are correct in stating that some fraction of the men in our Revolutionary War were loyalist. They fought against us, so I indeed overstated that 100% of the men took up arms to fight against the British. Given the final outcome, however, the loyalist had to be a small percentage.
So I checked a few sources. Of course, any quoted percentage must be a little soft given the uncertanties and records of that time. The resources that I visited put the loyalist percentages between 15% and 20%. Allow me to amend my too optimistic 100% guess to the more realistic estimates. About .80 to 85% of our manpower at that time fought for freedom from the Brits.
Sorry about that. I wouldn't want to lose you as a critical reader who thinks I "make stuff up". That's an unkind and inaccurate charge. But I hold no grudges. I never make up stuff but I am wrong at times. What a surprise!!!!
Best Wishes
There's simply no credible source AFAIK that says all "of our manpower at the time" who weren't loyal to the crown fought for independence. Lewis has given some fine citations. Here's another, the Smithsonian:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/myths-of-the-american-revolution-10941835/
"Many men preferred to remain home, in the safety of what Gen. George Washington described as their “Chimney Corner. ...As 1776 progressed, many colonies were compelled to entice soldiers with offers of cash bounties, clothing, blankets and extended furloughs ... The following year ... offers of cash and land bounties became an absolute necessity. By the end of 1778, most states were conscripting men when Congress’ voluntary enlistment quotas were not met." Wow.
No wonder so much of the rest of the world thinks we are still adolescents, and, now with the new guy, destined to remain so.
I read this long ago in the paper and it stuck with me:
David Game, a software executive from Reading, England, "was taught in school that the British spent lots of money defending the Americans against the French. And the Americans decided to up and leave when we asked them to spend a little money on taxes. They weren't willing to help themselves. The English were not so terrible and hateful. We were not at our best then, and the Americans should have been much more grateful, and stuck with us. Whatever the holiday, Americans go out and buy things. And when you ask them what the holiday is about, they have a slim grip on what is being commemorated."
Citizenship: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Micah+6:8&version=NRSV
AND
Luke, ch. 15.
The US military has and continues to serve us well and honorably. I was a member of the active Army for two years and as a member of the Army Reserves for another three years. I'm sure my bias is dominated by those duty assignments. I was proud to serve and I learned plenty. I've been a private citizen for many years now.
I'm somewhat surprised by what I interpret as an anti-military sentiment. Why? The military does dangerous, dirty duty, and does it predictably and reliably well. Indeed, I salute them.
Thank you for expressing yourselves in a forthright and possibly unpopular manner. Did you enjoy the music? That was why I originally posted.
Best Wishes
How A High Schooler Helped Reunite Twins 74 Years After Their World War II Deaths
"Sometimes a high school history project ends up making history. That's what happened when a 16-year-old Nebraska student decided to participate in the National History Day project in 2015.
Partly due to her research, the bodies of two American twin brothers, separated at death during World War II, were finally reunited."
I started to write something along those lines this morning but gave up. Couldn’t get it right. You’ve expressed it very well. I’m turned-off by emphasis on one’s military service and the whole idea of celebrating militarism. John McCain, genuine war hero that he is, has never flaunted his distinguished service to the nation. He’d probably agree with something along the lines, “If you‘ve got it there’s no need to flaunt it.” Others may tout his service, but he doesn’t need to. I think the same can be said for nations as well as men.
Like you, when I think about the 4th, I think about the beautiful persuasive arguments Jefferson advanced for the separation from England. So eloquently worded. With considerable help from English philosopher John Locke before him, Jefferson laid out the principles of a democratic society. They are noble principles which neither Jefferson nor those who followed him have always been able to live up to. But they are noble nonetheless, something to aspire to. They are the very bedrock that make America, along with her democratic allies around the world, worthy of praise and celebration.
Thanks so much.
Like so many other MFO posts, the current one took unexpected directions. It was originally designed to simply present a medley of military songs. I had no hidden agenda. It was a direct submittal without any deep and buried motivations. I was not trying to influence anyone on anything. I hoped it would be just entertaining.
It was not recognized as such by a few MFO contributors. That's just too bad. I suggest that we close with a revisit to that singular goal.
I was especially moved by the lone bugle and drum arrangement that introduced the Marine Hymn portion of the medley. It's impact on me was bone chilling.
Please give it a try if the many posts distracted you from it. It's terrific. Your positive or negative comments are always welcomed and appreciated.
Best Wishes
Why not both?
In a respectful vein, my grandpa Sherwood often said that the 'best' and proudest part of his 97y life, including family and social service as a missionary, was being a Marine.
https://davidrmoran.wordpress.com/
You guys show a ton of chutzpah in purportedly analyzing my posts in such a biased manner. Your posts about me, and not the content and references of these posts, say much more about you and not me.
Still, I send my Best Wishes
hope you had a grand Fourth
I just returned from watching an inspired fireworks display funded by my city. It was thrilling and included exciting ground works. I did have a grand Fourth. I always do while sharing it with my relatives. Thank you for asking.
Best Wishes