Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
@MFO Members:The powers at MFO prefer a introductory comment from linked article, not just a lazy naked link. Beginning paragraph of Krugman's article.
Everyone here wants to know what’s going to happen to Nafta — the North American Free Trade Agreement, which has closely linked the economies of Mexico, Canada and the United States for more than two decades. Donald Trump has described Nafta as the “worst trade deal ever made.” But will he actually destroy it? Regards, Ted
Nah. The data show that the benefits to all American workers are overwhelmingly high (much of it low prices). But it also is clearer than ever that the harms are quite a bit above zero. This was known and acknowledged, but not widely enough, and the benefits pitch was lopsided for sure. The way out, of course, is considerable new and increased supports for displaced workers, also and more important wide training and reeducation and incentives to partake, although you sure don't hear such being bruited these days.
>> if Iraqi freedom was presented to the American citizen in 2002 as a rallying cause, this war wouldn't have taken place.
You mean 03, I think, but after 9/11 something woulda happened regardless, imo.
@Maurice- Historically, it is well documented that free trade benefits all concerned. However, that seems to be no longer be true in many cases.
Historically, free trade did not involve multiple entities all competing to produce the same product, but typically involved maximizing free trade between entities producing different products. Win-win. The Free Trade argument is largely based on this historical perspective, and has pretty much failed to recognize contemporary fundamental changes in the trade relationships.
Actually, this probably started changing with the industrial revolution, when mechanized manufacturing began to force out craft-made product. The United States hugely benefited from this period of trade history. However, one of the unavoidable characteristics of mechanized manufacturing is obsolescence. It's not uncommon for an aging industrial plant to be made uncompetitive by the natural evolution of newer manufacturing processes, typically with either lower cost or higher output, or both.
A specific contemporary exception, to some extent, is China. China, for a relatively brief period, used massive human labor resources to manufacture product cheaper, though not always better, than more mechanized manufacturing processes. That has proved to be a temporary phenomena though, as they have now pretty much run out of those labor resources. Unfortunately, they are now replacing the labor-intensive manufacturing with computer-driven state-of-the-art mechanized manufacturing processes. We, nationally, actually have a window of opportunity to equalize things at this point, but it will require a lot of investment here in the US.
Again unfortunately, it is far from certain that the hugely powerful international corporations will choose to invest here rather than in some other country. International capitalism has grown in size and power to such an extent that corporate interests and power now frequently exceed national interests and power. Those corporate interests frequently manipulate both voters and governmental bodies with the well-worn chants of "get government off our backs".
All too often "getting government off our back" translates to "getting corporate greed and profit on our backs". Look no further than the international drug manufacturing cartel for a prime example.
@Maurice: You need to stop spending time worrying about what I do or don't do on the MFO Discussion Board , and more time making positive contributions to attract more viewers to MFO. Regards, Ted
P.S. Would it make you want to slash your wrists, that I believe the MFO powers are very happy with the Linkster's contributions to the MFO Discussion Board
"Actually Ted... the Powers That Be prefer an introduction or some comment within the post, not from the linked article, but from the original poster. I remember you agreed to this, and it was part of a settlement regarding some members objecting to your numerous daily posts."
@Ted: Maurice is absolutely correct in this. Management has allowed you to skate by substituting an excerpt from the link for a brief introduction of your own composition. Please don't force me to go back through the history of 2014/2015 and document this, because I can. Quit while you're ahead. Also, I can confer with management on this, but it would be a waste of time for all concerned.
@Old_Joe: "Please don't force me to go back through the history of 2014/2015 and document this, because I can. Quit while you're ahead. Also, I can confer with management on this, but it would be a waste of time for all concerned."
If I didn't know better, I'd think your threatening me ? "Say it ain't so Joe!" Regards, Ted
"Actually Ted... the Powers That Be prefer an introduction or some comment within the post, not from the linked article, but from the original poster. I remember you agreed to this, and it was part of a settlement regarding some members objecting to your numerous daily posts."
@Ted: Maurice is absolutely correct in this. Management has allowed you to skate by substituting an excerpt from the link for a brief introduction of your own composition. Please don't force me to go back through the history of 2014/2015 and document this, because I can. Quit while you're ahead. Also, I can confer with management on this, but it would be a waste of time for all concerned.
Of course no one new to the site can tell that they're excerpts anyway 'cause Ted doesn't indicate that they're quotes.
Regarding NAFTA, I would say there seems to be a lot more fear and saber-rattling from certain politicians about imposing tariffs on imports than imposing taxes on technological increases in productivity which I suspect displaces a lot more American workers. If you look at this chart, you can see what tech can do:
I'd wager more of that decline in farmer population was from tech than food imports, although there certainly some of that too.
Comments
Everyone here wants to know what’s going to happen to Nafta — the North American Free Trade Agreement, which has closely linked the economies of Mexico, Canada and the United States for more than two decades. Donald Trump has described Nafta as the “worst trade deal ever made.” But will he actually destroy it?
Regards,
Ted
>> if Iraqi freedom was presented to the American citizen in 2002 as a rallying cause, this war wouldn't have taken place.
You mean 03, I think, but after 9/11 something woulda happened regardless, imo.
@Maurice- Historically, it is well documented that free trade benefits all concerned. However, that seems to be no longer be true in many cases.
Historically, free trade did not involve multiple entities all competing to produce the same product, but typically involved maximizing free trade between entities producing different products. Win-win. The Free Trade argument is largely based on this historical perspective, and has pretty much failed to recognize contemporary fundamental changes in the trade relationships.
Actually, this probably started changing with the industrial revolution, when mechanized manufacturing began to force out craft-made product. The United States hugely benefited from this period of trade history. However, one of the unavoidable characteristics of mechanized manufacturing is obsolescence. It's not uncommon for an aging industrial plant to be made uncompetitive by the natural evolution of newer manufacturing processes, typically with either lower cost or higher output, or both.
A specific contemporary exception, to some extent, is China. China, for a relatively brief period, used massive human labor resources to manufacture product cheaper, though not always better, than more mechanized manufacturing processes. That has proved to be a temporary phenomena though, as they have now pretty much run out of those labor resources. Unfortunately, they are now replacing the labor-intensive manufacturing with computer-driven state-of-the-art mechanized manufacturing processes. We, nationally, actually have a window of opportunity to equalize things at this point, but it will require a lot of investment here in the US.
Again unfortunately, it is far from certain that the hugely powerful international corporations will choose to invest here rather than in some other country. International capitalism has grown in size and power to such an extent that corporate interests and power now frequently exceed national interests and power. Those corporate interests frequently manipulate both voters and governmental bodies with the well-worn chants of "get government off our backs".
All too often "getting government off our back" translates to "getting corporate greed and profit on our backs". Look no further than the international drug manufacturing cartel for a prime example.
Regards,
Ted
P.S. Would it make you want to slash your wrists, that I believe the MFO powers are very happy with the Linkster's contributions to the MFO Discussion Board
@Ted: Maurice is absolutely correct in this. Management has allowed you to skate by substituting an excerpt from the link for a brief introduction of your own composition. Please don't force me to go back through the history of 2014/2015 and document this, because I can. Quit while you're ahead. Also, I can confer with management on this, but it would be a waste of time for all concerned.
If I didn't know better, I'd think your threatening me ? "Say it ain't so Joe!"
Regards,
Ted
What was so was so..
What was not was not..
Now some things nearly so-
Some things nearly not...
Regards,
Ted
Victor Borge: Phonetic Punctuation:
Regarding NAFTA, I would say there seems to be a lot more fear and saber-rattling from certain politicians about imposing tariffs on imports than imposing taxes on technological increases in productivity which I suspect displaces a lot more American workers. If you look at this chart, you can see what tech can do:
I'd wager more of that decline in farmer population was from tech than food imports, although there certainly some of that too.
Regards,
Ted
Plagiarism Remix: