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@Maurice You lost me at "monolithic media." You've heard no doubt of an organization called News Corp. Or for that matter CNBC, Breitbart, Infowars, etc. Yet we can agree to disagree. I respect your free speech too.
Jackie Gleason is one of my all time favorite actors and characters. Ralph Kramden was about as much of a wife abuser as Archie Bunker was a racist. And if you watch just a few episodes you'll note that both "Alice" and "Trixie" were two tough women, fully capable of dishing it back out to their cornball husbands. Some people just don't get satire!
I love music and own a slug of Jackie Gleason Orchestra albums recorded in the 50s. Had his own highly successful orchestra, turning out dozens of wonderful albums - mostly romantic mood music. Hell, I was just listening to his Deep Purple while driving yesterday. And Gleason's "Merry Christmas" has been my most treasured Christmas album since I picked it up 30 years ago.
From what I've read, Gleason didn't know much about musical conducting and cared even less about working with the orchestra. So hired others to run the orchestra - branding it with his name. But he chose the sound he loved (notable for absence of percussion). Gleason hired some great horn blowers (among them Buddy Hacket) back when musicians actually blew horns. Of course so much we listen to today is done on synthesizers which replicate the sounds of various instruments. ---
(PS - Sorry, I thought this thread was about Gleason based on the cool statue of Ralph Kramden somebody posted. Now, I'm not sure what the thread is about. But if it's about free speech I very much agree.)
"Ralph Kramden is a beloved character who is seen as representative of the working man of that era in New York"
Lewis: Think that one through: surely you didn't mean to suggest that blacks were not part of the New York working class of that era.
I agree with you with respect to the "working man" aspect (and thanks for that great pic) but I will stand on my comment that Ralph and Art were never projected nor perceived as being particularly representative of the "white" population. The working population, yes.
My larger point is that TV shows of that era typically made fun of the human condition, and that Amos n' Andy was no more black racist than The Honeymooners was white racist. I loved both of those shows, along with many more of that era.
>> Ralph Kramden was about as much of a wife abuser as Archie Bunker was a racist. actually no, I think; got evidence?
Both programs were absolutely absurd. I can't believe anyone took the characters seriously. I was probably 10 or 12 when the Honeymooners was airing. Old enough to remember them.
A few excerpts from Wikipedia: (Ed Norton) played by Art Carney; a New York City municipal sewer worker and Ralph's best friend (and upstairs neighbor) ... Ed and Ralph both are members of the fictional Raccoon Lodge. ("An Emergency Meeting is an emergency meeting—never a poker game. An Executive Meeting, that's a poker game.") ... "
Ed worked for the New York City sewer department and described his job as a "Sub-supervisor in the sub-division of the department of subterranean sanitation, I just keep things moving along."
"Ralph Kramden is a beloved character who is seen as representative of the working man of that era in New York" Lewis: Think that one through: surely you didn't mean to suggest that blacks were not part of the New York working class of that era.
Perception and reality are two different things. It is absolutely true that Kramden is seen or perceived by many people as representative of the 1950s workingman, especially in New York. The fact that people of other ethnic groups also worked hard in the era has little to do with that perception many viewers had and continue to have till this day.
There is a notion called hyperreality that this disturbing gap between perception and reality exemplifies. It is the idea that simulated worlds like TV shows assume a greater reality in people's minds than actual experience and history. For instance, film and TV have shaped most Americans conception of the Old West far more than valid historical documents. In our minds the artifice of Western TV shows and films has supplanted the real lived history that people in the Old West experienced.
"The only thing that I don't understand being said here is Old_Joe's comment about my practicing censorship. As I pointed out, my "close down" this thread was humor."
@Maurice- really thought that you were serious. You got me fair and square with that one!
Comments
Some people just don't get satire!
I love music and own a slug of Jackie Gleason Orchestra albums recorded in the 50s. Had his own highly successful orchestra, turning out dozens of wonderful albums - mostly romantic mood music. Hell, I was just listening to his Deep Purple while driving yesterday. And Gleason's "Merry Christmas" has been my most treasured Christmas album since I picked it up 30 years ago.
From what I've read, Gleason didn't know much about musical conducting and cared even less about working with the orchestra. So hired others to run the orchestra - branding it with his name. But he chose the sound he loved (notable for absence of percussion). Gleason hired some great horn blowers (among them Buddy Hacket) back when musicians actually blew horns. Of course so much we listen to today is done on synthesizers which replicate the sounds of various instruments.
---
(PS - Sorry, I thought this thread was about Gleason based on the cool statue of Ralph Kramden somebody posted. Now, I'm not sure what the thread is about. But if it's about free speech I very much agree.)
actually no, I think; got evidence?
Lewis: Think that one through: surely you didn't mean to suggest that blacks were not part of the New York working class of that era.
I agree with you with respect to the "working man" aspect (and thanks for that great pic) but I will stand on my comment that Ralph and Art were never projected nor perceived as being particularly representative of the "white" population. The working population, yes.
My larger point is that TV shows of that era typically made fun of the human condition, and that Amos n' Andy was no more black racist than The Honeymooners was white racist. I loved both of those shows, along with many more of that era.
A few excerpts from Wikipedia:
(Ed Norton) played by Art Carney; a New York City municipal sewer worker and Ralph's best friend (and upstairs neighbor) ... Ed and Ralph both are members of the fictional Raccoon Lodge. ("An Emergency Meeting is an emergency meeting—never a poker game. An Executive Meeting, that's a poker game.") ... "
Ed worked for the New York City sewer department and described his job as a "Sub-supervisor in the sub-division of the department of subterranean sanitation, I just keep things moving along."
Just too funny.
(But everybody's entitled to their opinion.)
There is a notion called hyperreality that this disturbing gap between perception and reality exemplifies. It is the idea that simulated worlds like TV shows assume a greater reality in people's minds than actual experience and history. For instance, film and TV have shaped most Americans conception of the Old West far more than valid historical documents. In our minds the artifice of Western TV shows and films has supplanted the real lived history that people in the Old West experienced.
Yes. But when perception doesn't line up with reality, what then?
@Maurice- really thought that you were serious. You got me fair and square with that one!
OJ