Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
No one can use Yahoo Finance web site as it represents an insult to users of computers due to persistent failures! What portfolio site do you use? Appreciatively...
same here. Morningstar is often late to get things updated. End-of-day numbers are 99% of the time only available on the morning after. But I find their Portfolio Manager to be the most user-friendly.
I have used both Yahoo Finance and Morningstar. With the recent problems Yahoo has been having I am now using only Morningstar which of late has had some issues itself. Thanks @JoeD for the tip on Google, I'll set up one of my sleeves (that I am more active in) and give it a go.
I use M* (non-premium) mostly because it's quick and easy to build many comparative portfolios with their instant xray tool and also through my T. Rowe Price account for the M* premium portfolio tools... plus the tools at Schwab through that account.
Unfortunately, as Crash mentioned, Google's pricing updates can lag until the following day. I like Google for tracking stocks a lot better than tracking MFs.
Morningstar's portfolio is great for tracking MF performance and customizing categories you want to see.
I just keep everything on paper. Look up NAVs once a week at the library. Shares XNAV = Value. Total it on a $5 calculator. Toss in dividends once a month.
Like Mike M, I prefer M* premium through T. Rowe Price for portfolio X-ray tool. Analysis year-to-year help to avoid funds where they overlap too much. Otherwise, Excel spreadsheet works just fine.
For quotes I use Fidelity (I'm a client). OEF NAVs are updated pretty promptly (usually, at/after 5p.m. CST; though some OEFs update later).
Perhaps this is 'Old School', but I don't share my portfolio on any public website (i.e. google, yahoo, etc.) I am uncomfortable putting that info out there. I update it on on an Excel file. This permits me to model hypothetical portfolio allocations side-by-side with my real portfolio, estimate growth in my portfolio (using an assumed rate of growth, and estimate timing/amounts of distribution once I reach retirement.
There are no annoying ads on an Excel spreadsheet.
Unfortunately, as Crash mentioned, Google's pricing updates can lag until the following day. I like Google for tracking stocks a lot better than tracking MFs.
Morningstar's portfolio is great for tracking MF performance and customizing categories you want to see.
.....I think you meant Morningstar in that reference, not Google?
Crash, I don't know why, but after Google initially updates NAVs around 4:30PM ET (just like Yahoo), later in the day the data reverts back to prior day's NAV. I've never understood that. Maybe its a refresh issue on my computer(s), but it seems to happen quite often. Very frustrating. So I use Google mostly for tracking stock prices.
And yes, Mstar is slow to update daily NAVs. But their performance data is second to none.
ML updates earlier and more reliably than Fido, especially if you use that Yodlee aggregative feature ('My Financial Picture' and 'Fullview'). With the latter at Fido, you can actually see what an account is worth at 9p or whenever and then see, with one Update click in Fullview, that the Fullview listing is the prior day's valuation, not the one they already have and display normally. Fido c/s did not know this until it was pointed out to them, and then said, Oh, yes, there is some lag.
I used Yahoo for 15 years or longer. Never perfect - but was usable and reliable most of the time. Constructing multiple portfolios was easy. Became concerned about a year ago when they began having more and more problems. So started a "bare-bones" backup at Google. Updated it every couple months. Than Yahoo went completely bananas about 2 months ago after performing a complete overhaul of their tracker. Their main purpose now seems to be to saturate the pages with annoying ads and also to attempt to lead (drag?) financial users into other parts of the Yahoo domain.
Fled Yahoo and began using Google as the main one. Minimal ads and my blocker keeps those from flashing. Some peculiarities in daily pricing noted as others say - but not commonplace from what I can see. Can always double check a quoted price on Lipper if it doesn't look right. Biggest pain - I've been unable to rearrange the funds top-to-bottom. Once entered, they remain stacked that order regardless of my efforts to change the sequencing. However, having multiple portfolios works fine.
Am now in the process of establishing a backup at T. Rowe where they provide M* access. I'll assume (because it's TRP) it will work reliably and not have ads. For sure, other brokerages or houses have similar trackers. For those wanting a higher level of security - this is perhaps a better option since (from what I've seen) you log into your secure account access first in order to use the tracker. The downside is - I prefer not logging in to any of my secure accounts any more often than necessary in order to leave fewer tracks.
Confidentiality is an issue with any internet based tracker. There was someone here (or at FA) years back who hid their real amounts by entering numbers in fractions - say 1% or 10% of real value. Guess it worked for them. Apple has Apps you can download for little or no cost. I tried a half-dozen one night and wasn't pleased with any. Most seemed overly complicated and designed for sophisticated traders - not folks who simply wanted a snapshot view.
Why look at your tracker every day? Mostly for learning purposes. For one, I'm interested in keeping a low risk profile - not wanting to take on more risk in retirement than I can manage/tolerate. So, watching how different funds respond to various broader market changes allows me to keep tabs on the risk inherent. For example, does my real estate fund gain on days when equities fall? Do the international holdings help balance out the domestic ones? How much does a 2-3% rise/fall in oil affect a fund like PRAFX? Lastly, how does the day's gain/loss of my portfolio compare to a hypothetical benchmark? I want overall volatility at or near that of a good 40/60 fund on average (and even lower during periods of hefty valuations like the present). TRRIX serves as my benchmark or tracking fund. Yesterday TRRIX gained .06%. My 15 or so holdings gained .07%. That's not an abnormality. It's pretty close to how they normally compare.
One other reason for watching, I suppose, is that most of us here find market watching fascinating. It's not something everyone enjoys (or should enjoy) but I have to believe it is one reason most of us come here.
"Confidentiality is an issue with any internet based tracker. There was someone here (or at FA) years back who hid their real amounts by entering numbers in fractions - say 1% or 10% of real value."
@Hank- That might be me that you're trying to remember, I've always used M*, but previously listed only one share of each fund, showing the purchase price at $1.00.
Each day or so I copy the M* listing, and paste it into my spreadsheet for processing. Since I sometimes also track funds that we don't actually own, it's helpful to be able to revise the order of the M* portfolio so that I don't have to fool around with changing the order of the spreadsheet. Currently I'm tracking 32 different funds.
To do that, I use M*'s "List by number of shares held" option, and now show the number of shares for each entry as a number from 1 to 32, allowing me to sequence them in any way desired for compatibility with the entry format expected by the SS.
"... using Google as the main one [but] I've been unable to rearrange the funds top-to-bottom."
@Hank- I keep a backup listing on Google (that one at 1 share of each stock) and have had no problem rearranging the listing as necessary. I go to "portfolio / edit portfolio which brings up the box with the list (in the order preferred), make the desired changes, then check "Portfolio Sort: Custom", and finally "Save Changes".
Note- I just did all of this stuff and found that I had to do it a couple of times before all of the changes stuck. Who knows??
The best mutual fund website is difficult to identify because it depends on your investment timeframe, trading frequency, and other factors relating to your investment philosophy and practice. There is no single answer for everyone.
Based on the replies offered here, I suspect I trade infrequently compared to most MFOers. That's not intended as a criticism or as praise; it is simply an observation. Therefore, my standards for a useful fund website likely differs from other board members. I don't need or require websites that have updated daily returns.
I prefer websites that offer a wide variety of analytical tools. That's why I often reference the Portfolio Visualizer site. I also infrequently visit most of the sites recommended in this discussion. They all contribute to make for a more informed investor.
To better interpret my comments, I am a conservative investor. I try to be an investor best described by a 10 rule set that Warren Buffett endorses. Here is a Link to that set:
Note especially his rule Number .3. Here are a few succulent comments that I lifted from his rule 3 discussion:
From Buffett himself: “If you aren’t thinking about owning a stock for ten years, don’t even think about owning it for ten minutes.” and “Our favorite holding period is forever.” . And from Phil Fisher: “If the job has been correctly done when a common stock is purchased, the time to sell is almost never.”.
Buffett's rule Number 5 states that most news is really only noise. I fully endorse that observation. I don't often tune into the morning financial TV shows (with a few exceptions). I'm a long term investor and don't worry the daily noise.
Again, based on many submittals, it appears that a large fraction of MFOers are candidate daily or near daily market participants. To paraphrase an old joke, if you don't worry on Saturday, don't bother to worry on Sunday. I don't worry on any day. ADDED EDIT: That's one reason why I invest in mutual funds. I hired the fund managers to do the worrying for me.
We are swamped with detailed data and countless opinion inputs each and every day. I try to dodge most of it. That too follows the advice contained in the referenced Buffett rule set. Rule 10 states that " Only listen to those you know and trust." That's true of the opinion that I offered here!
I wish all MFO members solid investment returns. Be careful, investing is a dangerous business.
I learned a lesson many years ago. I cannot control the markets, I cannot time the markets, I cannot pick an individual stock portfolio and hold it, I cannot control the U.S. economy, I cannot control the world's economy, I cannot control the weather and political issues around the globe, but I can control what I will pay for my investments and the overall level of risk I am willing to accept. Moral of the story...don't worry about things I have absolutely no control. Settle on an allocation that allows me to sleep at night, and don't try to make my portfolio perfect. There is no such thing.
I used to look at my investment values maybe every three months. Now it's more like once a month. I hope when I retire in two months I can stay on that path. Frankly, I plan to be just as busy then as I am now, and I have no interest in fussing with what investments I own every day.
Thank you for reading and responding to my post. Your comments attract attention to my submittals. I appreciate that. Your sarcasm is noted.
But satcasm is a Losers game, especially on the Internet. It is often interpreted as a form of bullying. Sometimes it is interpreted as rude or even stupid. Often, it is misunderstood on the Internet because it lacks the human interaction touch. That's why some folks attach an Emoji face when being sarcastic in their posts.
I served in the US Army for several years. Do you really think that sarcasm troubles me after that experience? Allow me to answer with a definitive not whatsoever!!!
But my postings apparently rub you the wrong way frequently. Too, too bad. But your sarcasm attracts a wider post readership, and that's a positive for me. That's yet another thank you.
Addirionally, please consider that it is a waste of time for both the provider and the receiver. That time would be better committed to investment study and decision making for both parties.
Scientific America published a short piece on sarcasm a few years ago. It summarizes the negative and positive aspects of sarcasm. Here is the opening portion of that Scientific America's analysis:
" "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but the highest form of intelligence,” wrote that connoisseur of wit, Oscar Wilde. Whether sarcasm is a sign of intelligence or not, communication experts and marriage counselors alike typically advise us to stay away from this particular form of expression. The reason is simple: sarcasm expresses the poisonous sting of contempt, hurting others and harming relationships. As a form of communication, sarcasm takes on the debt of conflict.
And yet, our research suggests, there may also be some unexpected benefits from sarcasm: greater creativity. The use of sarcasm, in fact, promotes creativity for those on both the giving and receiving end of sarcastic exchanges. Instead of avoiding sarcasm completely in the office, the research suggests sarcasm, used with care and in moderation, can be effectively used and trigger some creative sparks."
That's a nice, fair summary. It applies to most sarcasm instances. Overall, it subtracts rather than adding to the value, usefulness, and friendliness of any exchange. Just my opinion.
Based on your post, it appears that we are mostly on the same page with respect to our time commitment to investment research and decision making.
But we're moving in opposite directions relative to that time commitment. My wife and I retired about 20 years ago. At that time, we checked our investments roughly on a monthly basis. Today, we do that task about once every 3 months.
There are no absolute rules here. It depends on far too many variables. I suppose the bottomline is that the proper time expenditure should be determined by the complexity of the portfolio, trading frequency, and most importantly, what is most comfortable for each of us.
I've read your 375 word response to my 5 word comment. It was intended as approbation for your apparently highly successful investment approach. You are free of course to take it as you want.
The thread was about portfolio trackers. I was impressed hearing of the high degree of confidence you place in your fund managers. I took your point to be that with such talented people managing your money you felt little compulsion to utilize a tracker.
I don't know whether you've mentioned these managers before. All might benefit if you would be so kind as to share their names and the funds they manage.
Back to the OP's thread subject: FWIW, Yahoo has fixed some of the most egregious problems with the new site. It's still clunkier than the old version, but the historical price data - the reason I go there - is back up and running more or less okay. They've sure set some records for how slow they've been to fix things that worked perfectly fine before the "new, improved" version was launched.
Sorry that I failed to respond to your 2014 question. I hope that failure did not impact your investment decisions.
It is highly likely that I simply did not see your request. I do not visit MFO daily. There are times when I do not stop here for weeks. Additionally, I have a privacy policy about the specifics of my portfolios. I will not reveal specific holdings. I rarely, if ever, comment on individual mutual funds.
Besides, it is dubious if any such disclosure would really help anyone. Each of our situations is rather unique in terms of total wealth, portfolio size and complexity, timeframe, relationships, retirement status, incomes, spendings, age, and a host of other parameters, I try to generally help, but also to do no harm with uniformed specific recommendations. I am not qualified to do so.
I have been investing since the 1950s. Over that extended timeframe I have morphed from an investor with a small number of individual stock holdings to a very senior investor with mostly mutual funds and ETFs. My wealth is substantial and I have diversified accordingly. My wife and I own equities, bonds, and private properties. As time passes, our equity holding percentage has decreased by design. We are conservative folks with more than sufficient wealth for both our lifetimes.
I suspect you really wanted much more detail, but that's about as far as I'm comfortable in disclosing.
I wish you, and everyone else on this discussion board, great investment outcomes. Be patient, prudent, and persistent. As the gospel song goes, "We Shall Overcome". We did and so will you.. Sorry for my very late reply.
Comments
Morningstar's portfolio is great for tracking MF performance and customizing categories you want to see.
Regards,
Ted
Conventional wisdom says not to look each day, but most of us will do so anyway.
Naw - Not really
For quotes I use Fidelity (I'm a client). OEF NAVs are updated pretty promptly (usually, at/after 5p.m. CST; though some OEFs update later).
Perhaps this is 'Old School', but I don't share my portfolio on any public website (i.e. google, yahoo, etc.) I am uncomfortable putting that info out there. I update it on on an Excel file. This permits me to model hypothetical portfolio allocations side-by-side with my real portfolio, estimate growth in my portfolio (using an assumed rate of growth, and estimate timing/amounts of distribution once I reach retirement.
There are no annoying ads on an Excel spreadsheet.
I don't know why, but after Google initially updates NAVs around 4:30PM ET (just like Yahoo), later in the day the data reverts back to prior day's NAV. I've never understood that. Maybe its a refresh issue on my computer(s), but it seems to happen quite often. Very frustrating. So I use Google mostly for tracking stock prices.
And yes, Mstar is slow to update daily NAVs. But their performance data is second to none.
Fido c/s did not know this until it was pointed out to them, and then said, Oh, yes, there is some lag.
Fled Yahoo and began using Google as the main one. Minimal ads and my blocker keeps those from flashing. Some peculiarities in daily pricing noted as others say - but not commonplace from what I can see. Can always double check a quoted price on Lipper if it doesn't look right. Biggest pain - I've been unable to rearrange the funds top-to-bottom. Once entered, they remain stacked that order regardless of my efforts to change the sequencing. However, having multiple portfolios works fine.
Am now in the process of establishing a backup at T. Rowe where they provide M* access. I'll assume (because it's TRP) it will work reliably and not have ads. For sure, other brokerages or houses have similar trackers. For those wanting a higher level of security - this is perhaps a better option since (from what I've seen) you log into your secure account access first in order to use the tracker. The downside is - I prefer not logging in to any of my secure accounts any more often than necessary in order to leave fewer tracks.
Confidentiality is an issue with any internet based tracker. There was someone here (or at FA) years back who hid their real amounts by entering numbers in fractions - say 1% or 10% of real value. Guess it worked for them. Apple has Apps you can download for little or no cost. I tried a half-dozen one night and wasn't pleased with any. Most seemed overly complicated and designed for sophisticated traders - not folks who simply wanted a snapshot view.
Why look at your tracker every day? Mostly for learning purposes. For one, I'm interested in keeping a low risk profile - not wanting to take on more risk in retirement than I can manage/tolerate. So, watching how different funds respond to various broader market changes allows me to keep tabs on the risk inherent. For example, does my real estate fund gain on days when equities fall? Do the international holdings help balance out the domestic ones? How much does a 2-3% rise/fall in oil affect a fund like PRAFX? Lastly, how does the day's gain/loss of my portfolio compare to a hypothetical benchmark? I want overall volatility at or near that of a good 40/60 fund on average (and even lower during periods of hefty valuations like the present). TRRIX serves as my benchmark or tracking fund. Yesterday TRRIX gained .06%. My 15 or so holdings gained .07%. That's not an abnormality. It's pretty close to how they normally compare.
One other reason for watching, I suppose, is that most of us here find market watching fascinating. It's not something everyone enjoys (or should enjoy) but I have to believe it is one reason most of us come here.
Regards
@Hank- That might be me that you're trying to remember, I've always used M*, but previously listed only one share of each fund, showing the purchase price at $1.00.
Each day or so I copy the M* listing, and paste it into my spreadsheet for processing. Since I sometimes also track funds that we don't actually own, it's helpful to be able to revise the order of the M* portfolio so that I don't have to fool around with changing the order of the spreadsheet. Currently I'm tracking 32 different funds.
To do that, I use M*'s "List by number of shares held" option, and now show the number of shares for each entry as a number from 1 to 32, allowing me to sequence them in any way desired for compatibility with the entry format expected by the SS.
@Hank- I keep a backup listing on Google (that one at 1 share of each stock) and have had no problem rearranging the listing as necessary. I go to "portfolio / edit portfolio which brings up the box with the list (in the order preferred), make the desired changes, then check "Portfolio Sort: Custom", and finally "Save Changes".
Note- I just did all of this stuff and found that I had to do it a couple of times before all of the changes stuck. Who knows??
The best mutual fund website is difficult to identify because it depends on your investment timeframe, trading frequency, and other factors relating to your investment philosophy and practice. There is no single answer for everyone.
Based on the replies offered here, I suspect I trade infrequently compared to most MFOers. That's not intended as a criticism or as praise; it is simply an observation. Therefore, my standards for a useful fund website likely differs from other board members. I don't need or require websites that have updated daily returns.
I prefer websites that offer a wide variety of analytical tools. That's why I often reference the Portfolio Visualizer site. I also infrequently visit most of the sites recommended in this discussion. They all contribute to make for a more informed investor.
To better interpret my comments, I am a conservative investor. I try to be an investor best described by a 10 rule set that Warren Buffett endorses. Here is a Link to that set:
https://www.simplysafedividends.com/warren-buffett-investment-advice/
Note especially his rule Number .3. Here are a few succulent comments that I lifted from his rule 3 discussion:
From Buffett himself: “If you aren’t thinking about owning a stock for ten years, don’t even think about owning it for ten minutes.” and “Our favorite holding period is forever.” . And from Phil Fisher: “If the job has been correctly done when a common stock is purchased, the time to sell is almost never.”.
Buffett's rule Number 5 states that most news is really only noise. I fully endorse that observation. I don't often tune into the morning financial TV shows (with a few exceptions). I'm a long term investor and don't worry the daily noise.
Again, based on many submittals, it appears that a large fraction of MFOers are candidate daily or near daily market participants. To paraphrase an old joke, if you don't worry on Saturday, don't bother to worry on Sunday. I don't worry on any day. ADDED EDIT: That's one reason why I invest in mutual funds. I hired the fund managers to do the worrying for me.
We are swamped with detailed data and countless opinion inputs each and every day. I try to dodge most of it. That too follows the advice contained in the referenced Buffett rule set. Rule 10 states that " Only listen to those you know and trust." That's true of the opinion that I offered here!
I wish all MFO members solid investment returns. Be careful, investing is a dangerous business.
Best Regards
I used to look at my investment values maybe every three months. Now it's more like once a month. I hope when I retire in two months I can stay on that path. Frankly, I plan to be just as busy then as I am now, and I have no interest in fussing with what investments I own every day.
You thinking about "Fundmentals", or another at FA?
Wish he/she were still around. Always wrote quite a detailed piece.
Thank you for reading and responding to my post. Your comments attract attention to my submittals. I appreciate that. Your sarcasm is noted.
But satcasm is a Losers game, especially on the Internet. It is often interpreted as a form of bullying. Sometimes it is interpreted as rude or even stupid. Often, it is misunderstood on the Internet because it lacks the human interaction touch. That's why some folks attach an Emoji face when being sarcastic in their posts.
I served in the US Army for several years. Do you really think that sarcasm troubles me after that experience? Allow me to answer with a definitive not whatsoever!!!
But my postings apparently rub you the wrong way frequently. Too, too bad. But your sarcasm attracts a wider post readership, and that's a positive for me. That's yet another thank you.
Addirionally, please consider that it is a waste of time for both the provider and the receiver. That time would be better committed to investment study and decision making for both parties.
Scientific America published a short piece on sarcasm a few years ago. It summarizes the negative and positive aspects of sarcasm. Here is the opening portion of that Scientific America's analysis:
" "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but the highest form of intelligence,” wrote that connoisseur of wit, Oscar Wilde. Whether sarcasm is a sign of intelligence or not, communication experts and marriage counselors alike typically advise us to stay away from this particular form of expression. The reason is simple: sarcasm expresses the poisonous sting of contempt, hurting others and harming relationships. As a form of communication, sarcasm takes on the debt of conflict.
And yet, our research suggests, there may also be some unexpected benefits from sarcasm: greater creativity. The use of sarcasm, in fact, promotes creativity for those on both the giving and receiving end of sarcastic exchanges. Instead of avoiding sarcasm completely in the office, the research suggests sarcasm, used with care and in moderation, can be effectively used and trigger some creative sparks."
That's a nice, fair summary. It applies to most sarcasm instances. Overall, it subtracts rather than adding to the value, usefulness, and friendliness of any exchange. Just my opinion.
Best Wishes
Based on your post, it appears that we are mostly on the same page with respect to our time commitment to investment research and decision making.
But we're moving in opposite directions relative to that time commitment. My wife and I retired about 20 years ago. At that time, we checked our investments roughly on a monthly basis. Today, we do that task about once every 3 months.
There are no absolute rules here. It depends on far too many variables. I suppose the bottomline is that the proper time expenditure should be determined by the complexity of the portfolio, trading frequency, and most importantly, what is most comfortable for each of us.
Best Wishes
I've read your 375 word response to my 5 word comment. It was intended as approbation for your apparently highly successful investment approach. You are free of course to take it as you want.
The thread was about portfolio trackers. I was impressed hearing of the high degree of confidence you place in your fund managers. I took your point to be that with such talented people managing your money you felt little compulsion to utilize a tracker.
I don't know whether you've mentioned these managers before. All might benefit if you would be so kind as to share their names and the funds they manage.
Regards
@Maurice- looks like we're on the same page on this one too.
Sorry that I failed to respond to your 2014 question. I hope that failure did not impact your investment decisions.
It is highly likely that I simply did not see your request. I do not visit MFO daily. There are times when I do not stop here for weeks. Additionally, I have a privacy policy about the specifics of my portfolios. I will not reveal specific holdings. I rarely, if ever, comment on individual mutual funds.
Besides, it is dubious if any such disclosure would really help anyone. Each of our situations is rather unique in terms of total wealth, portfolio size and complexity, timeframe, relationships, retirement status, incomes, spendings, age, and a host of other parameters, I try to generally help, but also to do no harm with uniformed specific recommendations. I am not qualified to do so.
I have been investing since the 1950s. Over that extended timeframe I have morphed from an investor with a small number of individual stock holdings to a very senior investor with mostly mutual funds and ETFs. My wealth is substantial and I have diversified accordingly. My wife and I own equities, bonds, and private properties. As time passes, our equity holding percentage has decreased by design. We are conservative folks with more than sufficient wealth for both our lifetimes.
I suspect you really wanted much more detail, but that's about as far as I'm comfortable in disclosing.
I wish you, and everyone else on this discussion board, great investment outcomes. Be patient, prudent, and persistent. As the gospel song goes, "We Shall Overcome". We did and so will you.. Sorry for my very late reply.
Best Wishes