Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
All countries reserve a right to control immigration. Canada is a country. So Canada controls its immigration. Some folks angry with Trump about wanting to control USA's immigration, now wish to migrate to another country which already controls its immigration.
Strange how some of the folks who say they want to flee the USA seem to think first about going to Canada, and not Mexico... Or for that matter, Haiti would probably be willing to accept any number of Americans. Venezuela too.
It has been a crazy year. It never feels good to lose. This is especially true when you believe you're right. Conservatives are in a state of glee right now. I consider myself to be one of them. However, I will resist the temptation of responding in kind to the treatment I believe Conservatives received in 2008 and 2012. We all remember the statement 'Elections have consequences'. We are a Nation divided. The scary part is we're divided by Race, Income and Ideology. What does it mean these days to be an American? I saw an article today which mentioned the possibility of a new civil war in America. I scoffed at the idea at first, but as I thought more about it, I was reminded of the saying: "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." I'm a Black man in America and I found myself voting for Mr Trump. That really wasn't a surprise since I've been a Conservative for decades. Many other Black people are as well, even if they won't admit it within the tribe. But at the same time, I understand what it means to be caught while driving Black. However, in the end I am an un-hyphenated American and I believe there's no better place on earth. The Republicans now have a mandate. Truth is a matter of perspective and the stars are aligning for the Republicans to do some good. But fear not, because Conservatives above all else believe in principle and if they do not do what we've hired them to do....we'll fire them once more. America is a fine place and worth fighting for. But, we should do it together with civility. I wish you all well.
Brian, what do you mean when you call yourself a conservative? I fear we use the term to liberally in the political sense as in conservative=republican and liberal=democrat but is that true?
You see, I tried a search of the term and mostly what I found was that a conservative in the political sense is resistant to change. While the history of political evidence would seem to bear that out, especially over the time period you alluded to (2008-2016), I don't think that's what you mean. Maybe that's the root source of our collective failures at meaningful discussion in this country in that neither side knows what the other is all about except that if you're for it as a member of one party then I have to be against it as the member of another. What nonsense and yet it seems to be the the biggest wall we can not get around.
Judging by your post above I believe we have a lot in common although on the surface we would appear to be polar opposites. I can't for the life of me figure out why we can't bridge the divide in this country.
Edited to add: this doesn't help clear up matters but I can definitely see the man's points.
@Mark, I agree the term 'Conservative', even in the political sense, could mean different things. From my point of view: Government should be as small as possible. I believe the budget should be balanced. This in my opinion is our greatest weakness. I believe taxes should be consumption based (think Fair Tax). I believe our Military should be second to none, but we're not the World's police. I believe in fair immigration, but there should be a clearly defined process that works for both countries. I believe the rule of law trumps everything else (pun intended). Socially: I believe the Government has no power over my person. Meaning, my body belongs to me and this extends to a Woman's right to chose. This doesn't mean I believe in abortion, it simply means I believe it isn't the Government's right to tell me what to believe. I believe in the strict separation of Church and State. Once again, it isn't the Government's place to tell me what to believe. I believe Ayn Rand was wrong from the perspective that regulation is necessary to keep us from destroying one another. But regulation has to be carefully crafted to keep the playing field fertile but not necessarily fair. From the time we're born, the clock is ticking. In America, if you work hard there should be an opportunity. Everything else is up to you.
@Mark: 'I can't for the life of me figure out why we can't bridge the divide in this country.' I believe everything goes back to the rule of law. I also believe the behavior of the current administration has made things worse. As a Black person, I do feel anger whenever one of the tribe is shot. I do not buy the fact that Black people sitting in an automobile are any more dangerous than non-Blacks. On the other side (as far as I can tell), you have a so called Black president who said he was going to be different but perverts the law every time it suits him to do so. This produces even more anger. The Republicans aren't that much better. They've enjoyed having a majority before and did nothing to improve things. That's why we need term limits and we need a strong adherence to the rule of law. There are none among us who are pure of thought or deed. If allowed to do things based upon our feelings, we would all be doomed. But we all have to do our part. Being tribal is unavoidable, but we have to realize that if we say 'Black lives' matter, we're excluding our 'American' brothers at our own peril. Trump was right when he changed it to 'All' lives matter. He was also right when he said the Political class believes they're above all of us. We need a Government that is seen to work for all of us. This means that no matter who you are, the same rules apply.
@Mark: I just finished reading the article. I understand what he's saying, but what is our alternative? The Democrats? Has he not heard how Harry Reid and Biden refer to Black people? Does he not remember the 'Dixiecrats'? Or how the Democrats think that all they have to do is visit a Black church every election and believe other Black people will fall in line? As a Black man who votes for Republicans, I've always felt like an alien (at home and abroad). But, I insist that my politics have nothing to do with race. What Black people seem to be missing is there's racism everywhere! The only difference is you have one party promising things they have no intentions to deliver and another that is seemingly indifferent. The question for me is, who am I? I could see the noticeable disappointment from my daughter when we talked about who we voted for. However, I'm hoping she also noticed that I didn't condemn her for not voting as I did. Perhaps one day she'll ask me why. No matter what, I'm happy we've both demonstrated the tolerance of the others right to disagree. Time will tell who's actually right.
@Brian: Yes, we agree on almost all of your points and statements. I must tell you though that no one has ever accused me of being conservative or a conservative. Do me a favor though and search "all lives matter." I did because I didn't think Trump did the changing which doesn't matter but I was a little surprised at what I found. We (not you and I) can't even agree on what that phrase means.
Anyway, you also said "On the other side (as far as I can tell), you have a so called Black president who said he was going to be different but perverts the law every time it suits him to do so." This is not really the place or forum for this discussion but I will have to do further research to see if I can get a handle on what you might be referring to.
I've been thinking a bit about Archie Bunker. He was an undeniable bigot, but also someone who was concerned about providing for his family, worried about losing his blue collar job (loading dock), and was very confused about the changes going on around him.
I looked up his address, and found his house. Sure, his neighborhood has changed a lot in the ensuing decades. But if you think about how Archie and Edith would have voted, how do you think "his" election district voted?
Yes, you got it. 302 for Trump, 302 for Clinton, 10 for Johnson. FWIW.
For completeness, Trump's childhood neighborhood in Jamaica Estates, Queens went big for Clinton: 552 Clinton, 87 Trump, 4 Johnson.
It's in the 24 AD, 40 Election District. You can find it on the map by moving two red areas to the "right" (east), and then south. That red area is also Jamaica Estates, but on the other side of a highway (Grand Central Parkway).
@Ted Actually, no I won't get over it. I assume that makes you happy, but you know what? That pleasure you derive from how what is essentially a fascist takeover of our government makes me feel reflects more upon you than me. I don't think the nation or the world, or certainly the environment will ever get over this. Climate change doesn't care about your or my feelings. I know, it's all in my and 97% of climate scientists' imagination. As is Trump's promised rounding up, imprisonment and deportation of millions of undocumented Americans or the enforced registration of people of a certain religion or the anti-Semitic death threats to journalists--All of the historical parallels are there. Or how the day after the election a family friend was walking through Boston and someone drove up in a car and shouted: "Fa--ot! After we throw all the Mexicans over the wall, you're next!" But enjoy your day in the sun, Ted. You deserve it.
@LewisBraham: I'm thinking the world has had enough of blind political correctness. I think the world is not as left-leaning as the Democrat Party has become. I believe the rule of law has been endangered over the last eight years and the only thing that keeps us from being Mexico is the rule of law. I take no pleasure in the fact that some people are unable to accept the outcome of this election. However, the election rules applied to all and once more the Left wants to change the rules to achieve their expected outcome. How is that just?
If you're unhappy with Donald Trump and you're wondering how this happened? You only have to look in the mirror. This is true whether you're on the Left, Right or Center. Things have gone so far left that a vacuum was created and now a massive correction is underway. Just because the Right aren't in the streets protesting, it doesn't mean they don't want to be heard. For eight years, we were ruled under the mantra of 'Elections have consequences and I won'! If America was unhappy about it, too bad here's an Executive Order to get around you! The establishment Republicans were either too nice or unable to do anything about it. So, now you have Donald Trump to deal with and it is your fault. Had the rule of law been observed, many of the most contentious issues would have been dealt with differently. Now the Republicans have a choice. They can arrogantly ignore the people as they have before or act like the outgoing Administration, and then things will really get ugly. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!!!!!!
@BrianW, Whose rule of law are we talking about? Are we talking about Trump's belief in discriminating against people belonging to a particular religion--Muslims--saying they will require separate rules from every other American even though our constitution enshrines the freedom of religion and equal protection under the law? Or Trump's belief in torture's use against terrorist suspects even though our laws forbid "cruel and unusual punishment." Or Trump's promise to expand Guantanamo even though it directly violates our rules of habeas corpus. Or Trump's desire to deport "anchor babies" born in the U.S., even though it's in direct violation of the 14th amendment's language on "naturalized citizens." Or Trump's declaring that he would not accept the results of the election if he lost even though this is a fundamental part of our democratic process since the founding of our country. Or Trump's belief that women who have abortions should be imprisoned in direct violation of the Roe v. Wade decision. It sounds like what you mean by the rule of law is the rule of law that favors only what you believe in.
@LewisBraham: "It sounds like what you mean by the rule of law is the rule of law that favors only what you believe in."I just lived through eight years of Democrats being in charge and believe me it was suffrage. The saying, 'Its morning in America', has a sweet ring to it. You may attempt to bully the rest of us with all the the wrongs you believe Donald Trump has done. We can do the same, but where will that get us?
Pretty funny to post this clip from directors who may not be allowed to use a public restroom and are facing threats about their sexuality in Trump's America. From Wikipedia: Lana Wachowski (formerly Laurence "Larry" Wachowski, born June 21, 1965) and Lilly Wachowski (formerly Andrew Paul "Andy" Wachowski, born December 29, 1967) are sibling American film directors, screenwriters, and producers.[6] They are both openly transgender women. Known together professionally as The Wachowskis and formerly as The Wachowski Brothers, the pair made their directing debut in 1996 with Bound, and reached fame with their second film The Matrix (1999)....Following the commercial success of The Matrix series, they wrote and produced the 2006 film V for Vendetta. What they are facing under the new regime: nytimes.com/2016/11/11/us/politics/trump-victory-alarms-gay-and-transgender-groups.html
THIS is where we are, and already were: From Chris Hedges: "...Our capitalist democracy ceased to function more than two decades ago. We underwent a corporate coup carried out by the Democratic and Republican parties. There are no institutions left that can authentically be called democratic. Trump and Hillary Clinton in a functioning democracy would have never been presidential nominees. The long and ruthless corporate assault on the working class, the legal system, electoral politics, the mass media, social services, the ecosystem, education and civil liberties in the name of neoliberalism has disemboweled the country. It has left the nation a decayed wreck. We celebrate ignorance. We have replaced political discourse, news, culture and intellectual inquiry with celebrity worship and spectacle.... Fascism is the product of a democracy that has ceased to function. The democratic form will remain, much as it did during the dictatorships in the later part of the Roman Empire, but the reality is despotism, or in our case, corporate despotism. The citizen does not genuinely participate in power...Once societies unplug themselves from reality, those who speak truth become pariahs and enemies of the state..." http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/its_worse_than_you_think_20161111
Comments
All countries reserve a right to control immigration.
Canada is a country. So Canada controls its immigration.
Some folks angry with Trump about wanting to control USA's immigration, now wish to migrate to another country which already controls its immigration.
Strange how some of the folks who say they want to flee the USA seem to think first about going to Canada, and not Mexico... Or for that matter, Haiti would probably be willing to accept any number of Americans. Venezuela too.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cape-breton-trump-bump-website-pre-election-1.3839119
You see, I tried a search of the term and mostly what I found was that a conservative in the political sense is resistant to change. While the history of political evidence would seem to bear that out, especially over the time period you alluded to (2008-2016), I don't think that's what you mean. Maybe that's the root source of our collective failures at meaningful discussion in this country in that neither side knows what the other is all about except that if you're for it as a member of one party then I have to be against it as the member of another. What nonsense and yet it seems to be the the biggest wall we can not get around.
Judging by your post above I believe we have a lot in common although on the surface we would appear to be polar opposites. I can't for the life of me figure out why we can't bridge the divide in this country.
Edited to add: this doesn't help clear up matters but I can definitely see the man's points.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/10/what-does-a-black-conservative-do-after-a-trump-win-leave-the-gop/?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1
Anyway, you also said "On the other side (as far as I can tell), you have a so called Black president who said he was going to be different but perverts the law every time it suits him to do so." This is not really the place or forum for this discussion but I will have to do further research to see if I can get a handle on what you might be referring to.
Many thanks for your response.
"Has he not heard how Harry Reid and Biden refer to Black people?" I really have to wonder what you're thinking:
politico.eu/article/15-most-offensive-things-trump-campaign-feminism-migration-racism/
nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/breitbarts-steve-bannon-might-be-trumps-chief-of-staff.html
usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/12/post-election-spate-hate-crimes-worse-than-post-911-experts-say/93681294/
talkingpointsmemo.com/news/anti-defamation-league-study-alt-right-trump-supporters-anti-semitic-twitter-attacks
Regards,
Ted
I looked up his address, and found his house. Sure, his neighborhood has changed a lot in the ensuing decades. But if you think about how Archie and Edith would have voted, how do you think "his" election district voted?
Yes, you got it. 302 for Trump, 302 for Clinton, 10 for Johnson. FWIW.
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/numbers/clinton-trump-president-vice-president-every-neighborhood-map-election-results-voting-general-primary-nyc
(On the map, look for the red area in the center of the city, in Queens. Archie's ED is on the right edge of that area - 28 AD, 17 Election District in Glendale, NY.)
For completeness, Trump's childhood neighborhood in Jamaica Estates, Queens went big for Clinton: 552 Clinton, 87 Trump, 4 Johnson.
It's in the 24 AD, 40 Election District. You can find it on the map by moving two red areas to the "right" (east), and then south. That red area is also Jamaica Estates, but on the other side of a highway (Grand Central Parkway).
adapt or get out of the way.
Lana Wachowski (formerly Laurence "Larry" Wachowski, born June 21, 1965) and Lilly Wachowski (formerly Andrew Paul "Andy" Wachowski, born December 29, 1967) are sibling American film directors, screenwriters, and producers.[6] They are both openly transgender women. Known together professionally as The Wachowskis and formerly as The Wachowski Brothers, the pair made their directing debut in 1996 with Bound, and reached fame with their second film The Matrix (1999)....Following the commercial success of The Matrix series, they wrote and produced the 2006 film V for Vendetta.
What they are facing under the new regime:
nytimes.com/2016/11/11/us/politics/trump-victory-alarms-gay-and-transgender-groups.html
From Chris Hedges: "...Our capitalist democracy ceased to function more than two decades ago. We underwent a corporate coup carried out by the Democratic and Republican parties. There are no institutions left that can authentically be called democratic. Trump and Hillary Clinton in a functioning democracy would have never been presidential nominees. The long and ruthless corporate assault on the working class, the legal system, electoral politics, the mass media, social services, the ecosystem, education and civil liberties in the name of neoliberalism has disemboweled the country. It has left the nation a decayed wreck. We celebrate ignorance. We have replaced political discourse, news, culture and intellectual inquiry with celebrity worship and spectacle.... Fascism is the product of a democracy that has ceased to function. The democratic form will remain, much as it did during the dictatorships in the later part of the Roman Empire, but the reality is despotism, or in our case, corporate despotism. The citizen does not genuinely participate in power...Once societies unplug themselves from reality, those who speak truth become pariahs and enemies of the state..."
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/its_worse_than_you_think_20161111