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RPHYX / RSIVX: New commentary explains mistakes that resulted in credit losses
Re RPHYX, I'm still up about 1% ytd and 4% overall since purchase. But I'm watching...
On the somewhat brighter side, I'd rather have an honest mark-to-market then some totally BS number, as has happened with other situations many times in the past.
Frankly, I want to know how many millions manager has in each fund and then decide. I own both RPHYX and RSIVX so it is not like I have to keep RSIVX. I went into RSIVX knowing it would have risks, but then also the possibility of higher returns.
IMHO the problem might be those who couldn't get into RPHYX thought RSIVX would give better returns with less risk, and then now their dissappointment is out of proportion.
"I thought the purpose for MFOers investing in RPHYX was as a substitute for cash. It has performed well in that regard."
I agree. It's taken a hit recently, but if it stabilizes, it's still OK in my book. If it continues to maintain a slow but steady loss of NAV, that's another story altogether. Not losing any sleep, but I am watching.
Edit/Add: The above quote is from Junkster's original post, apparently now deleted. How on earth is it "agitation" to simply discuss all aspects of any particular question? Have we gotten so timid that we prefer an artificial silence to acquisition of knowledge? Good grief!!
Yeah, but let's agree what "substitute for cash" means. There is under the mattress(and good luck), Bank Account (and FDIC), Money Market Fund (and hope manager is not Bernie Madoff's third cousin), then RPHYX.
So anyone plonking down their entire cash in RPHYX, leave alone RSIVX, need to know what they are doing. Or rather, they should not be doing that. I mean HSGFX is market neutral and losing more money than most funds. By this analogy I should be complaining it should give me 0% return not negative. Now I AM complaining, but that's because it is giving me severe negative return for several years (well fewer years than other folks...)
If RPHYX/RSIVX drops 3% for 4 years, then let's all complain. Or let's give them time unless we hear anything more. Frankly, as I have said before, at this time I just need to know how much of his own money Sherman has in each fund. I never understand the fund disclosure rules. Besides, WTF don't managers tell us exactly what they own? It's not like it's a privacy issue, I don't think.
"So anyone plonking down their entire cash in RPHYX, leave alone RSIVX, need to know what they are doing. Or rather, they should not be doing that."
I don't think that it's a great idea to "plunk down your entire cash" in any one place these days. For safety and a slow but steady loss of purchasing power, there's the FDIC. For more protection of purchasing power but less safety, pick your poison.
This is why I'm watching RPHYX closely with respect to NAV deterioration: if that continues, then a move to FDIC is indicated.
I expect its NAV to drop (all marketing to the contrary). Its average bond price is 102.69, its average coupon is 8.21%, and its average maturity is a tad over 2 years.
Put it all together, and you get an expected decline of 2.7% in NAV over two years or less as some of these bonds are called before maturity. The high coupon is supposed to compensate for the declining value, just as higher coupons are demanded for any premium bond.
That's just a black box description, without going into the details of what's inside the box. There are a lot of questions when one opens the box; I don't think declining NAV in and of itself is one of them.
And I thought I was the only misfit here!!! Meanwhile back in the real world in bondland, it's much the same as in 2014 with the high yield munis leading the way. Some of the better ones up 4% YTD.
Edit: Heavens forbid if Jim Rogers and Carl Icahn are prescient in their call for a collapse in the junk corporate market.
@Junkster: Both you and msf are valued information resources here, and I'm pretty sure that you both know that. Our constant attempt to steer a profitable course isn't helped at all by folks like you withdrawing from conversations.
Old_Joe thanks for the compliment but I am not a valued information resource here if only because I am too out of the box especially when it comes to the conventional wisdom on compounding one's nest egg. One reason for that is in my 20s and 30s I was more destitute and impoverished than anyone here. So it required a different mindset to get to where I am now. I've been in a lot of forums in my day and what I like about this one above the others is (save for one) it's real down to earth traders/investors who actually are growing their capital over time. I have but one major complaint and voicing it would just antagonize a lot of posters here who I like and respect.
"I am not a valued information resource here if only because I am too out of the box"
@Junkster- With all respect, baloney! Diversity of opinion and different points of view are extremely valuable to me, if only because it helps me to focus on what I'm trying to accomplish, and allows me to understand that a particular investing approach may be fine for some, but not necessarily for me. I'm sure that many others would certainly share my views on the value of diversity.
@TSP_Transfer: Thanks for the lead on PTIAX. It's an interesting looking company and group of seemingly smart managers. I have much regret about getting into RPHYX and RSIVX after acting on what I read on MFO.
@TSP_Transfer: Thanks for the lead on PTIAX. It's an interesting looking company and group of seemingly smart managers. I have much regret about getting into RPHYX and RSIVX after acting on what I read on MFO.
The Crowd by Gustave Le Bon published way back in 1895 yet as topical as ever. I really think RPHYX isn't all that bad albeit not my cup of tea. RSIVX I said before is a mediocre fund (actually less than mediocre now) and heavens forbid if Jim Rogers and Carl Icahn are correct in their assessment that something real ugly is brewing in corporate junk debt. As an aside, PONDX which has been mentioned favorably on MFO numerous times, just doesn't seem to get the love that undeserving RSIVX does. PONDX, swelled assets and all just keeps truckin on.
OJ, the image didn't show. Regardless I know Sherman has "over 1M". But is it 1M + 1 dollar or 10M? Makes a diffference right? I mean Bill Miller owning "over 1M" in LMVTX never impressed me and that was proved when he bought a 70M yacht.
It's all relative. That's why I keep mentioning Berkowitz stake in FAIRX. The SAI there also says "Over 1M" but then there is additional information in there that let's you figure out how much he actually owns.
The Crowd by Gustave Le Bon published way back in 1895 yet as topical as ever. I really think RPHYX isn't all that bad albeit not my cup of tea. RSIVX I said before is a mediocre fund (actually less than mediocre now) and heavens forbid if Jim Rogers and Carl Icahn are correct in their assessment that something real ugly is brewing in corporate junk debt. As an aside, PONDX which has been mentioned favorably on MFO numerous times, just doesn't seem to get the love that undeserving RSIVX does. PONDX, swelled assets and all just keeps truckin on.
Nice post Junkster. And why all the ink on RSVIX and none on ASHIX that I can recall?
Mona: "I am still trying to understand why all the ink on MFO on RSIVX and not a drop on ASHIX ...."
Hi Mona, the Allianz fund is mentioned in this thread, and a few others. Search on ASHDX to find them, as that seems to be the share class people have referred to. Funny, the ASHDX share class doesn't trigger as a valid ticker now; it used to.
The big difference is that Allianz is into higher quality junk.
Cheers, AJ
Edit: Huh. ASHDX doesn't trigger because, apparently, the D share class doesn't exist anymore - at least neither M* nor Fidelity recognizes it now. There's an A share class that Fido offers load-waived - ASHAX.
Mona: "I am still trying to understand why all the ink on MFO on RSIVX and not a drop on ASHIX ...."
Hi Mona, the Allianz fund is mentioned in this thread, and a few others. Search on ASHDX to find them, as that seems to be the share class people have referred to. Funny, the ASHDX share class doesn't trigger as a valid ticker now; it used to.
The big difference is that Allianz is into higher quality junk.
Cheers, AJ
Edit: Huh. ASHDX doesn't trigger because, apparently, the D share class doesn't exist anymore - at least neither M* nor Fidelity recognizes it now. There's an A share class that Fido offers load-waived - ASHAX.
Hi AndyJ,
No wonder I could not find a peep!
Now that you have, I agree with your post on October 19th where your said:
"Riverpark hasn't kept up with its real peers, e.g., ASHDX & OSTIX."
And, I am also in agreement with the post by willmatt72 on October 20th:
"As Heezsafe alluded to, RSIVX is not really a total return fund. I held this fund for about a year and, while it distributed a nice dividend, it never held its NAV during that time. As a result, I continued to watch my principal drop. It wasn't my cup of tea. I chalk it up to lessons learned. I've had better results with ASHDX and ZEOIX."
Personally I am glad to be long out of RSIVX and in ASHIX albiet it's has a bit of a rough past month.
Personally I am glad to be ... in ASHIX albiet it's has a bit of a rough past month.
Mona
Yep, I noticed that like several other high-yieldy funds, they bought into battered energy really early, from a couple of percent to 9% in one swell foop. Dunno if that's partly responsible for the rough recent time, but it did get hurt in the last month.
Better yet to be in high yield munis such as ABTYX or PYMDX. That category was the star in 2014 ( EIHYX NHMRX) and again this year albeit more muted and without the volatility of the corporates. Yes, trends do persist. Some of the (so-called) experts are looking for a credit crisis in the high yield corporates still to be played out.
Better yet to be in high yield munis such as ABTYX or PYMDX. That category was the star in 2014 ( EIHYX NHMRX) and again this year albeit more muted and without the volatility of the corporates. Yes, trends do persist. Some of the (so-called) experts are looking for a credit crisis in the high yield corporates still to be played out.
Yes to junk munis, and junk mortgages have done pretty well too. And, for the last 3 months or so, so have less corporate-junky bond cef's and some of the US$-denominated EM debt universe.
Comments
On the somewhat brighter side, I'd rather have an honest mark-to-market then some totally BS number, as has happened with other situations many times in the past.
IMHO the problem might be those who couldn't get into RPHYX thought RSIVX would give better returns with less risk, and then now their dissappointment is out of proportion.
I agree. It's taken a hit recently, but if it stabilizes, it's still OK in my book. If it continues to maintain a slow but steady loss of NAV, that's another story altogether. Not losing any sleep, but I am watching.
Edit/Add: The above quote is from Junkster's original post, apparently now deleted. How on earth is it "agitation" to simply discuss all aspects of any particular question? Have we gotten so timid that we prefer an artificial silence to acquisition of knowledge? Good grief!!
So anyone plonking down their entire cash in RPHYX, leave alone RSIVX, need to know what they are doing. Or rather, they should not be doing that. I mean HSGFX is market neutral and losing more money than most funds. By this analogy I should be complaining it should give me 0% return not negative. Now I AM complaining, but that's because it is giving me severe negative return for several years (well fewer years than other folks...)
If RPHYX/RSIVX drops 3% for 4 years, then let's all complain. Or let's give them time unless we hear anything more. Frankly, as I have said before, at this time I just need to know how much of his own money Sherman has in each fund. I never understand the fund disclosure rules. Besides, WTF don't managers tell us exactly what they own? It's not like it's a privacy issue, I don't think.
I don't think that it's a great idea to "plunk down your entire cash" in any one place these days. For safety and a slow but steady loss of purchasing power, there's the FDIC. For more protection of purchasing power but less safety, pick your poison.
This is why I'm watching RPHYX closely with respect to NAV deterioration: if that continues, then a move to FDIC is indicated.
Put it all together, and you get an expected decline of 2.7% in NAV over two years or less as some of these bonds are called before maturity. The high coupon is supposed to compensate for the declining value, just as higher coupons are demanded for any premium bond.
That's just a black box description, without going into the details of what's inside the box. There are a lot of questions when one opens the box; I don't think declining NAV in and of itself is one of them.
And I thought I was the only misfit here!!! Meanwhile back in the real world in bondland, it's much the same as in 2014 with the high yield munis leading the way. Some of the better ones up 4% YTD.
Edit: Heavens forbid if Jim Rogers and Carl Icahn are prescient in their call for a collapse in the junk corporate market.
@Junkster: Both you and msf are valued information resources here, and I'm pretty sure that you both know that. Our constant attempt to steer a profitable course isn't helped at all by folks like you withdrawing from conversations.
Regards- OJ
@Junkster- With all respect, baloney! Diversity of opinion and different points of view are extremely valuable to me, if only because it helps me to focus on what I'm trying to accomplish, and allows me to understand that a particular investing approach may be fine for some, but not necessarily for me. I'm sure that many others would certainly share my views on the value of diversity.
Was a $5000.minimum @ Schwab now $100 (see Ted's post here;" Schwab Slashes Minimums On OneSource NTF Mutual Funds"http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/comment/71575/#Comment_71575)
PTIAX Buy $100.00 Reinvest Dividends and Capital Gains
Trade Date 11/23/2015
http://www.ptiafunds.com/images/website/documents/fund-documents/ptiax_factsheet.pdf
Another "steady eddie" monthly payer to look @
SCLDX
http://scoutinv.com/resources/documents/literature/factsheet/low-duration-bond-fund-factsheet.pdf?c=1448065575921
http://www.riverparkfunds.com/downloads/SAI/RiverPark_SAI.pdf
It's on page 45.
It's all relative. That's why I keep mentioning Berkowitz stake in FAIRX. The SAI there also says "Over 1M" but then there is additional information in there that let's you figure out how much he actually owns.
There is Committment. Then there is COMMITTMENT.
Nice post Junkster. And why all the ink on RSVIX and none on ASHIX that I can recall?
Mona
Of course, water has been known to run uphill.
Nice to see you posting again Mona.
Yup, "almost always".
However, I am still trying to understand why all the ink on MFO on RSIVX and not a drop on ASHIX, especially if the water is running uphill.
Mona
Hi Mona, the Allianz fund is mentioned in this thread, and a few others. Search on ASHDX to find them, as that seems to be the share class people have referred to. Funny, the ASHDX share class doesn't trigger as a valid ticker now; it used to.
The big difference is that Allianz is into higher quality junk.
Cheers, AJ
Edit: Huh. ASHDX doesn't trigger because, apparently, the D share class doesn't exist anymore - at least neither M* nor Fidelity recognizes it now. There's an A share class that Fido offers load-waived - ASHAX.
Hi AndyJ,
No wonder I could not find a peep!
Now that you have, I agree with your post on October 19th where your said:
"Riverpark hasn't kept up with its real peers, e.g., ASHDX & OSTIX."
And, I am also in agreement with the post by willmatt72 on October 20th:
"As Heezsafe alluded to, RSIVX is not really a total return fund. I held this fund for about a year and, while it distributed a nice dividend, it never held its NAV during that time. As a result, I continued to watch my principal drop. It wasn't my cup of tea. I chalk it up to lessons learned. I've had better results with ASHDX and ZEOIX."
Personally I am glad to be long out of RSIVX and in ASHIX albiet it's has a bit of a rough past month.
Mona
Mona
Yep, I noticed that like several other high-yieldy funds, they bought into battered energy really early, from a couple of percent to 9% in one swell foop. Dunno if that's partly responsible for the rough recent time, but it did get hurt in the last month.
Derf
I knew you would come through
Best Regards,
Mona