Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Reading "Math for life" new book by Jeffrey Bennett, goes over a lot of problems of teaching and thinking about math and how to solve most of them, Will open your eyes.....
To note again. Click the dropdown menu "subject" , at this first page, for a brief overview. A category also exists for financial studies, listed within economics and finance. A whole bunch of goodies here.
Khan is a fine example of money moving in the proper direction for the good of everyone. The initial start of this site is from one of the early members of Google.
I am guessing the public schools do not want to teach kids the value of money and how to make it. That might turn them into (gasp). capitalists.
You know, I guess I've always thought about it from the standpoint of the financial industry wanting to continue to sell all manner of products and services. If you educated the masses, maybe there'd be a lot less product and services sold. A public that's educated in financial matters is - I think - a lot less lucrative for the financial industry at every level.
Customer calls bank: Customer: "I'm calling to check what my mortgage rate is." Bank (sees 5%, starts changing it in the computer): "Sir, I'm happy to tell you that it's 8%." Customer: "Is that good?" Bank: Yes, yes, you're on our new VIP (*cough* very impressive payment *cough*) program. Customer: "Wow, great!"
The crazy thing about the lack of awareness on mortgage rates is I believe mortgage lenders are now required to publish your rate on your monthly statement
Kinda a funny ERA to worry about Mortgage Rates they have never been lower!, the problem is getting people (potential) buyers to realize this..."wake up America" Banks wanting to do business with "customers".... boy that's weird?
'Course.....the lowest mortgage rates are for those with excellent credit scores, 20% down, which also avoids the PMI insurance fees....... And folks actually want to have a mortgage, versus rent. There will always be some who want to purchase a home, or others may still exist who want to refinance the current mortgage. Tis not the baby boomers group today and this needs to be recognized......finally.
Knowing a bit of math almost helps when purchasing cars. These days the salesman only want to discuss the "affordable" monthly payment plan, and not the entire cost after financing. They did not like it a bit when I redo their calculation with my Old HP 15C financial calculator. We finically settled with even better rate from Honda instead of our credit union. Anther vehicle we got it $700 over the factory price (not the sticker MSRP) by paying in cash.
"These days the salesman only want to discuss the "affordable" monthly payment plan, and not the entire cost after financing." sven
Has nothing to do with Math, he is a salesman...its call "sales" I think kids are now trained in using Calculators, could be our problem with math...just thinking,tb
@Sven, @catch22, I love my 15C!! It must be almost 30 years old by now, which amazingly isn't much older than my North Face ski pants and jacket that I still wear every winter and love (OK, they might only be 20 years old)!
I have to chuckle at all of you, especially because you share some characteristics with me. First of all, if everyone were like us, there would be no US economy to worry about. We have money to spend worrying about investments precisely because we have stuff that's 20 years old and still works fine. But if we were doing our proper job in supporting the US economy, your ancient calculators would have been replaced at least ten or twelve times already, and you would now be using some "app" on your newfangled iPhone. But then you wouldn't have all that much money to invest, so you wouldn't even need the app!
I buy my undershirts at Costco- they have good quality ones at decent prices. But I save the ones getting raggedy around the collar for work jobs where they are bound to get filthy... paint, grease, mud, whatever. The only problem is that when they are all folded nice and neat in the drawer you can't see which ones have the raggedy collars. So I put a big black "W" (for work) on the hem of those, where it is visible when folded. Now, that's cheap, @Maurice!
@Old_Joe, it's called frugality and it should be taught more. I have t shirts over 20 years old. Same reason as you. If there is a use for it, then use it. Sadly I don't have a ancient calculator. I use a app on my iPhone. But my iPhone is a 4s. I'll update it next month.
The wife does wonder out loud sometimes why I keep old t shirts.
Hi Maurice- if you shop Costco, take a look at their t-shirts/undershirts. They are pretty good quality, and do in fact last a reasonable amount of time. OJ
I've often bought SLR cameras used from the standpoint of they've always been excellent and some of the cameras made 5+ years ago are built better.
"I don't think today that I could replace this jacket at any price. We live in a throw away society, and we like cheap junk from China. Buying good stuff to last a long time is getting very difficult. Materials are half as thick or less than they were 20 years back. Maybe they just figured out that us dummies in the North will buy clothes that people in the South find comfortable."
Completely agree with this - especially the bolded - and in a way it makes me kind of want to invest in Waste Management. In a throwaway society, the company doing recycling of a lot of the materials that can be recycled can't be a bad business.
Value and quality are not necessarily synonymous. Buying cheap stuff and continually replacing it can still provide better value than buying higher quality goods that don't last proportionately longer. (This is another way of phrasing Maurice's point that "paying more doesn't necessarily mean getting stuff that will last a long time.")
For t shirts, underwear, socks, I'll buy cheap. Then I don't care what happens to it, if I tear something, if I lose a sock, etc. For other products, I'll pay up, but I won't pay for top of the line, labels, etc., since these almost never offer good value (in the sense of utility). For that matter, I can't remember every having paid "up" for a boutique fund - I'll stretch my ER parameters for a small, well-run equity fund, but I don't pay excessive fees regardless of the name on the door.
Now, you mostly overpay for quality or get something cheap.
Regarding SLRs - the move toward plastics has given cameras a cheaper feel, and does not seem suited to top of the line models. But you can still get good quality from plastic, along with lighter equipment - it's a design tradeoff as much as a cost savings.
Regarding clothes made in China - these days, look to Vietnam and other parts of SE Asia for cheap stuff. If you want some fine tailored clothing, Shanghai is still a good place to go.
It comes down to deciding what level of quality you want, and knowing what a good price point isfor that level of quality. Hit that price point, and you're being frugal, at any quality level.
@msf Along the same line of price and quality. I had very good performance and wear with a Columbia winter jacket that was worn through a work day, 5-7 days a week for about 10 years during the cool and cold months. The jacket was subjected to outdoor standards; not just the use to and from work, but while working outside during the cool/cold months in Michigan. Knowing that I was going to have to replace the jacket last year, I watched and waited until March to purchase the "$130 tag price" jacket at Kohl's for the clearance price of $40 + 6% sales tax. Another way of obtaining a decent product/price mix.
Comments
Will open your eyes.....
A category also exists for financial studies, listed within economics and finance. A whole bunch of goodies here.
Khan Academy
Khan is a fine example of money moving in the proper direction for the good of everyone.
The initial start of this site is from one of the early members of Google.
A third of mortgage owners have no idea what their rate is:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102389180
Customer calls bank:
Customer: "I'm calling to check what my mortgage rate is."
Bank (sees 5%, starts changing it in the computer): "Sir, I'm happy to tell you that it's 8%."
Customer: "Is that good?"
Bank: Yes, yes, you're on our new VIP (*cough* very impressive payment *cough*) program.
Customer: "Wow, great!"
Again, "South Park" put it brilliantly:
Banks wanting to do business with "customers".... boy that's weird?
And folks actually want to have a mortgage, versus rent.
There will always be some who want to purchase a home, or others may still exist who want to refinance the current mortgage.
Tis not the baby boomers group today and this needs to be recognized......finally.
Yes, this time is different.
Off the thread subject, but still use an HP 12C (1980's) at least once a week. A wonderful product series of calculators.
Catch
Has nothing to do with Math, he is a salesman...its call "sales"
I think kids are now trained in using Calculators, could be our problem with math...just thinking,tb
I have to chuckle at all of you, especially because you share some characteristics with me. First of all, if everyone were like us, there would be no US economy to worry about. We have money to spend worrying about investments precisely because we have stuff that's 20 years old and still works fine. But if we were doing our proper job in supporting the US economy, your ancient calculators would have been replaced at least ten or twelve times already, and you would now be using some "app" on your newfangled iPhone. But then you wouldn't have all that much money to invest, so you wouldn't even need the app!
I buy my undershirts at Costco- they have good quality ones at decent prices. But I save the ones getting raggedy around the collar for work jobs where they are bound to get filthy... paint, grease, mud, whatever. The only problem is that when they are all folded nice and neat in the drawer you can't see which ones have the raggedy collars. So I put a big black "W" (for work) on the hem of those, where it is visible when folded. Now, that's cheap, @Maurice!
The wife does wonder out loud sometimes why I keep old t shirts.
"I don't think today that I could replace this jacket at any price. We live in a throw away society, and we like cheap junk from China. Buying good stuff to last a long time is getting very difficult. Materials are half as thick or less than they were 20 years back. Maybe they just figured out that us dummies in the North will buy clothes that people in the South find comfortable."
Completely agree with this - especially the bolded - and in a way it makes me kind of want to invest in Waste Management. In a throwaway society, the company doing recycling of a lot of the materials that can be recycled can't be a bad business.
For t shirts, underwear, socks, I'll buy cheap. Then I don't care what happens to it, if I tear something, if I lose a sock, etc. For other products, I'll pay up, but I won't pay for top of the line, labels, etc., since these almost never offer good value (in the sense of utility). For that matter, I can't remember every having paid "up" for a boutique fund - I'll stretch my ER parameters for a small, well-run equity fund, but I don't pay excessive fees regardless of the name on the door.
To a certain extent, I agree that many things seem to have been much better made decades ago. There used to be many stores that sold good, solid, items at fair prices - Gimbels, A&S, Carson Pirie Scott, Emporium, etc. Or for generic, durable products, there was Sears:
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/13/sears_is_dying_what_the_ubiquitous_store’s_death_says_about_america/
Now, you mostly overpay for quality or get something cheap.
Regarding SLRs - the move toward plastics has given cameras a cheaper feel, and does not seem suited to top of the line models. But you can still get good quality from plastic, along with lighter equipment - it's a design tradeoff as much as a cost savings.
Regarding clothes made in China - these days, look to Vietnam and other parts of SE Asia for cheap stuff. If you want some fine tailored clothing, Shanghai is still a good place to go.
It comes down to deciding what level of quality you want, and knowing what a good price point isfor that level of quality. Hit that price point, and you're being frugal, at any quality level.
Along the same line of price and quality.
I had very good performance and wear with a Columbia winter jacket that was worn through a work day, 5-7 days a week for about 10 years during the cool and cold months. The jacket was subjected to outdoor standards; not just the use to and from work, but while working outside during the cool/cold months in Michigan.
Knowing that I was going to have to replace the jacket last year, I watched and waited until March to purchase the "$130 tag price" jacket at Kohl's for the clearance price of $40 + 6% sales tax.
Another way of obtaining a decent product/price mix.