Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

    Support MFO

  • Donate through PayPal

Apple Announcements: My 2 Cents

edited September 2014 in Off-Topic
Apple Pay:

1. It's nice that Apple has finally offered NFC payments. The problem is that you can't just use this anywhere. Many retailers have not upgraded their POS. The announcement for Apple Pay lists McDonalds (who had already upgraded ages ago), Starbucks (who will have to upgrade), Walgreens (which has already upgraded) and a few others. The move to EMV credit cards has taken forever and, as a result, there's been not that much movement on upgrading POS terminals. The terminal companies (Ingenico, Verifone, NCR) stand to benefit if the push finally happens. Other companies have tried to push into terminals - primarily Amazon - but I don't see Amazon's terminals gaining mass acceptance.

2. Apple has said they are not in the data collection business. This is different than Google Wallet, which does collect information to use. That said, if Apple is not doing this for the data, I'm not sure the reasoning.

3. Apple will be doing things differently. Android has gone to HCE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_card_emulation) instead of using the secure element on the phone for transactions. Apple will be using the phone's secure element. Working with Visa and MC, Apple is apparently using "tokenization".

"Broadly speaking, "tokenizing" means swapping out the actual card number for a different, representative number — a token. The token is generated by running the account number through a cryptographic function that can only be reversed with a key held by the token issuer, usually a bank or payment processor.

In a typical retail transaction, it works like this: The customer swipes their card at a terminal — say, Jeff's Widgets. The card information is encrypted and sent over the wire to the bank, which decrypts it, authorizes the transaction, and generates a token. Without the decryption key, payment tokens are worthless to thieves. The bank then sends the authorization result and the token back to Jeff's Widgets. Jeff can safely hold on to the token along with the transaction record; without the bank's encryption key, there's no way for a thief to reverse the token and discover the real card number, which is stored securely in the bank's token vault." (http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/09/08/itokens-why-it-makes-sense-for-apples-rumored-payment-system-to-use-tokenized-transactions.)

There are one-time use tokens made by tech companies for payment (one time use cc's with LCDs), but again, it's taken forever to get EMV going in this country despite the fact that every other developed nation pretty much has. Google Wallet does use a master Mastercard at point-of-sale, so that card is used, then your card is charged. In other words, both Google Wallet and Apple Pay are using different methods of not having your card be front-and-center when payment is made - which, given what has happened recently - is very appealing.

4. The credit card companies still get paid. "The economics remain the same for us. From our standpoint, it's still a Mastercard transaction so it's still the same for us." Mastercard exec this morning on CNBC. He wouldn't say (beyond: "Apple has contracts with the major issuers"), but it would appear that either the banks are paying or retailers or paying or both. Companies aren't going to be building payment networks, so the toll roads of CC companies still benefit.

5. Interestingly, Discover got left out of Apple Pay.

Long story short (or, to use an internet phrase, TLDR), Apple's approach to mobile payments is compelling but still faces hurdles (including the same primary hurdle that Google Wallet has - there aren't THAT many retailers that have upgraded POS terminals.)


Otherwise:

1. The watch having NFC I think opens up possibilities beyond payment, including car-related and I could see it being popular with transportation - waving your watch you have on by a terminal rather than getting your phone out.

2. A little bit of a bummer that the watch doesn't really work without having an iPhone or is heavily reliant on having an iPhone.

3. The watch will not be out for the holiday season. I'm not someone who really gets the appeal of the watches - if anything, they have use for fitness apps, but do people already have the less expensive things (fitbit, etc) for that?

4. The larger screens are a plus, although were expected. With the phones, I'm curious if NFC will allow Apple phones to share pictures in the same manner that Android phones do - if you hold two phones back-to-back, you can beam a picture from one phone to another.

5. The surprise with the phones is the lack of announced sapphire glass, which has resulted in GT Advanced Technologies (GTAT) tanking yesterday and pre-mkt today.

Detailed discussion of the phone:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/09/09/iphone-6-vs-iphone-6-plus-what-is-the-difference/

Also, re payments:

"Mobile payments are seeing rapid growth outside the U.S., says McLaughlin -- more than 20% of MasterCard transactions in Canada are touch-to-pay -- and Apple Pay may go a long way toward increasing touch-to-pay transactions in the U.S."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/banks-credit-card-companies-see-apple-pay-as-boon-for-customers-2014-09-09

Comments

  • edited September 2014
    My understanding is that the phones do have the sapphire glass. The watch doesn't though.

    Overall I like what Apple offered. The watch does look a bit clunky but with all the stuff they crammed into it that was to be expected. The new iPhones look great. I'm considering upgrading from my 4s.

    Yes I'm am excited about the NFC. it may take a few years for it to become mainstream but that has been the case with most tech advances. They didn't talk about the iBeacon at all. I read today that Apple is talking with IBM and that may help. If this economy was better then it may have been adopted sooner.

    PS edit: Apple has what us called Airdrop. You can send photos and such back and forth between Apple devices. You need a newer device to do this though.
  • edited September 2014
    Thanks Scott.

    You have been our scout of on-line and electronic payment technology for quite some time.

    Hate to have compete with Apple on just about any level.

    How does PayPal fare in all this? I rarely use Google Wallet or Yahoo Wallet. But I do use PayPal.

    Break, break.

    My old iPhone is shot. Dropped multiple times. Speaker hardly works. Been awaiting new iPhone for some time.

    So, I will be placing my order via Verizon. Yay =)
  • beebee
    edited September 2014
    Shouldn't this new payment option be called "Apple Turnover"...as in turn over your loot?
  • edited September 2014
    Ha, ha...cute.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • edited September 2014
    Maurice said:




    @scott You mentioned 3 terminal companies Ingenico, Verifone and NCR.

    Very interesting post - thanks.

    Ingenico and Verifone are the two dominant players, with the majority of market share. Verifone is more US, Ingenico is more international, with a fairly significant % in Europe.

    Verifone was a disaster up until several months ago when management changed. It has now become something of a turnaround story. Ingenico has been the far more consistent company over the years and pays a decent dividend. The problem is that Ingenico's ADR shares are very thinly traded.

    Despite attempts buy additional players to muscle in (Amazon, Square), I think Ingenico and Verifone (especially the former) are interesting companies, dominating an industry whose product is pretty much everywhere. I owned Ingenico for a while and then sold it and moved to FIS, which is the largest financial tech provider (again, another industry dominated largely by two players, FIS and FISV.)

    I think FIS will benefit from the eventual move to EMV (http://www.fisglobal.com/products-card-chipcardemv) and will benefit if the Merchant Customer Exchange (the mobile wallet backed by Wal-Mart, Target and others - http://www.mcx.com/) ever actually gets going (although after the Apple announcement, who knows.) Still, FIS/FISV are interesting, diversified financial/tech co's.

    FIS (which is getting a little expensive valuation-wise at this point, I'm not selling or adding) is a long-term holding, as are a few credit card co's.

  • Charles said:

    Thanks Scott.

    You have been our scout of on-line and electronic payment technology for quite some time.

    Hate to have compete with Apple on just about any level.

    How does PayPal fare in all this? I rarely use Google Wallet or Yahoo Wallet. But I do use PayPal.

    Break, break.

    My old iPhone is shot. Dropped multiple times. Speaker hardly works. Been awaiting new iPhone for some time.

    So, I will be placing my order via Verizon. Yay =)

    I think Paypal suffers from the fact that, while the service has been incredibly successful in becoming the way that people pay online for things like Ebay transactions and other services, it's never really been successful in going offline. I think they had some association with Home Depot where you could pay with Paypal but it didn't really go further than that. Paypal's new app is sleek, but again, if I can't use my Paypal mobile wallet at that many places, it doesn't do me much good.

  • Maybe Apple is looking to buy one of those terminal companies? NCR?
  • Interestingly enough, we just got new vending machines on campus, replacing machines that might have been nearly 20 years old. These machines take credit cards, and advertised PayPass and other forms of "tap to pay."

    In the interest of trying things out, I turned on NFC on my cell phone and bought a diet Pepsi using Google Wallet. It was far too quick, easy, and unreal. I can easily imagine the phone calls home to mom and dad: "Could you please add another $100 to my card? I have no idea how I spent so much, so quickly."
  • No wonder there are tons of budget apps on Apple's App Store.
  • Here is a good article on Apple Pay. A lot of details are spelled out here and in the comments section as well.

    http://www.imore.com/apple-pay-security
  • edited September 2014
    chip said:


    In the interest of trying things out, I turned on NFC on my cell phone and bought a diet Pepsi using Google Wallet. It was far too quick, easy, and unreal."

    This.

    It's fun, it's easy and once it really gets going and integrates everything - payment, coupons and rewards program cards - it will hopefully finally get rolling. It's extremely enjoyable to open an app, have my CVS card quickly available on-screen to be scanned, then hold the phone with the same app still up against the POS. The phone bleeps and I'm good to go.

    Vending machines are a lot of fun, too.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Count me in Maurice, cash is King unless I'm forced to do otherwise. Too much hacking and data theft these days at even the major retailers for my tastes. Also, in my neck of the woods, the latest activity has been to steal the credit card readers off the counters of various business's. Thieves use them to give themselves refunds and to transfer money to their own cards. (Don't know why that can't be traced.)
Sign In or Register to comment.