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John, if you are interested in what the ownership of MLP's might have done for you should you have ventured to buy them I encourage you to read through the attached M* thread. I have owned them for a number of years with beyond my expectations results.
I would almost really rather own an actively managed MLP fund than an index, I just think that you want to concentrate more on best-in-breed, as I think there'll be more incidents like Boardwalk Pipeline (BWP), which lost something like half its value in a day (although it's since come back somewhat.) That company was majority owned by famed investors the Tisch family via Loews Corp (L)
If you do start owning individual MLPs, keep in mind the delightful (not) paperwork known as K-1's at tax time.
Ted, do those two groups hold MLP's or are they just alternative investments that you find value in holding? Also, what is/are your objection(s) to holding MLP's? Why do you feel that they are not worthy of investing in? Just curious to hear your point of view.
John, I too prefer buying individual MLP's vs the index like Scott. If k-1's at tax time creep you out you can also invest in them through a number of CEF's and mutual funds. I however have found that their fees and ER's take too much away from total return for my tastes. Having said that I should acknowledge that I do hold a goodly position in GLPAX because it was available without the load in my Fidelity Roth IRA and it is performing as Junkster likes to see his mutual funds perform.
So they are. Thanks Scott. I suppose I could have spent more than two minutes checking them out. No thanks to BX, I like my investments to be quite a bit more transparent than that. KKR hasn't always been the model of corporate credibility either to the best of my recollection but I'll dig a little deeper. I see that both issue k-1's as well.
So they are. Thanks Scott. I suppose I could have spent more than two minutes checking them out. No thanks to BX, I like my investments to be quite a bit more transparent than that. KKR hasn't always been the model of corporate credibility either to the best of my recollection but I'll dig a little deeper. I see that both issue k-1's as well.
I like Howard Marks and Oaktree (OAK), which is also an MLP. Oaktree is interesting long-term from the standpoint that it's the world's largest distressed debt investor (and has started to branch further into other areas.) I also somewhat like BX, which has been proving that it's learned from the top-ticking it did in 2008 (Hilton, Weather Channel, etc). Still, BX is very volatile (as are most of the private equity stocks.) Two very different private equity companies - Oaktree is very value-oriented, while Blackstone is slicker and seems to often have its focus on the crown jewels.
Carlyle Group (CG) and Apollo Group (APO is the symbol, I think?) also fall in the same private equity MLP category. Fortress Investment Group and Alliance Bernstein are also MLPs. There's also the Brookfield spin-offs, including Brookfield Property (BPY) and Brookfield Infrastructure (BIP). Carl Icahn's Icahn Enterprises (IEP) is another, although that's highly illiquid, given Carl owns something like 93% of the shares. That is a way, however, to invest in Carl Icahn's hedge fund.There's others, as well:
I suppose I just don't see MLPs growing in terms of non-energy. WP Carey (which I own) was an MLP but changed to a REIT. You'll likely see more REITs, as more things are allowed to be classified as REITs, see the Windstream REIT spin-off, as well as Iron Mountain (IRM).
The other layer are the MLP general partners, which are kind of leveraged plays on the underlying MLP/s.
@Mark "KKR hasn't always been the model of corporate credibility..." Hahahahahahaha!
I just happened by the Tortoise funds website last week and saw they had eliminated two of their CEFs and shuttled their assets to other CEFs they run (which aren't really much like the funds they erased, which would have been more than a little annoying had you been an investor in one of the funds erased). Anyone know what that was about--- assets not growing? Performance didn't seem all that atrocious. Scott, that's your territory, I believe......
re. Oaktree. Yes, but I'd wait until after the correction, when all risk will be oversold and you'll be able to get OAK maybe close to their IPO price (or below). Several of their large private equity pools are reaching maturity and being harvested; consequently, the excellent high qtrly distributions the stock has been kicking out the past 2 yrs or so will not continue and will stabilize at a lower level (so you'd want to get a better entry point for better distribution yield going forward in time, IMO).
@Mark "KKR hasn't always been the model of corporate credibility..." Hahahahahahaha!
I just happened by the Tortoise funds website last week and saw they had eliminated two of their CEFs and shuttled their assets to other CEFs they run (which aren't really much like the funds they erased, which would have been more than a little annoying had you been an investor in one of the funds erased). Anyone know what that was about--- assets not growing? Performance didn't seem all that atrocious. Scott, that's your territory, I believe...... ).
I owned a Tortoise Fund (forget the name of it) 2-3 years ago that eventually became CorSite Infrastructure (CORR). I thought the significant discount of the Tortoise fund would go away as the fund became CorSite. However, I had no interest in owning it after that happened. I sold and CORR has done ... not particularly well.
I think Kayne Anderson is probably doing better than Tortoise.
Hi JohnN! Thanks for the post. I'm looking to find out about MLP's. I think, too, export is the future....refined things are more profitable, I would think. But raw oil and gas are worth something too. If there's a buck to be made, we Americans will do it. Also MA is a good thing, too. The companies with the best management win. That's good! I don't understand the tax things.....in the article, even the gurus aren't sure what will happen in a major correction. That's scarey! I remember the line in the movie, "Troy," when the boy went to find Achilles (Brad Pitt) to fight the giant. The boy said, "I wouldn't want to fight him." Achilles replies, "That is why no one will remember your name." I think this fracking thing is that big that someone will come out of it and be remembered for having done so. Just me thinking..... the PuddnHead
@Scott: Speaking of Harry Domash and Dividenddetective.com.
Finally, FundAlarm's Discussion Board is another area worth checking out. The boards are moderated, meaning that rude, off topic, or otherwise offensive messages don't get posted. With more than 25 posts on an average day, the board is amazingly active for a relatively unknown site. However, most of the posts come from "Ted," described on the site as a night owl residing in Olympia Fields, Illinois.
Ted's postings consist mostly of links to interesting news and commentary about mutual funds, and investing in general. According to the site, although officially retired, Ted doesn't fill his posts with links to stories you see everywhere. I spend all day long on the Web, but all of Ted's links that I clicked took me to stories and commentary that I wouldn't have found on my own.
JohnN, You said something about tsp.....Thrift Savings Plan? Are you a government employee? Reason I ask is that my wife works for the gov't and has been investing in their TSP for years. Thanx in advance. Pudd
yes sir work for govt for 10 yrs now as nurse in healthcare @ Veteran hospital.
Their g fund is the best if you are near retirement. my portfolio [41 years old] divided equally in portion I, C, 2040 funds, and large cap/ 20% split in [10% G funds/10% and Money market, proximately 75-80s% in stocks and 20s% in fixed income. probably retire in 20s+ yrs so don't mess w/ it until near retirements their fees for the funds etfs are maginal/good reasonable [barclay] company that manage the funds/ one of my colleague at work just retire last wk, he is 70s yr old, he was very greedy and put all his 650sk in china and i fund in 2007 prior the crash. now his portfolio is about 760s after the the rise and more distrubutions, he has learnt his lesson and he is 100% G funds now prior to retirement which is the best thing he did few months prior to retirement...
their 2030s or 2040 or 2050 funds are also very good if your wifey want to play 'couch potato to investment game' and don't have to do much - stay passive and active at same time
Hi John Yes the wife is about 5 years out from retiring from the US Postal Service. I also like their funds. We have G, C, I, 2020 income funds. Sold S end of last year. She works in Amish country....home of the Amish Mafia (lol!), and we are Lebanon Levi protected! Party on dude! the Pudd
Comments
Although I don't own any MLP's directly or a MLP fund ... I do own some funds that have a good weighting to them.
Old_Skeet
http://socialize.morningstar.com/NewSocialize/forums/p/340492/3564556.aspx
If you do start owning individual MLPs, keep in mind the delightful (not) paperwork known as K-1's at tax time.
Regards,
Ted
John, I too prefer buying individual MLP's vs the index like Scott. If k-1's at tax time creep you out you can also invest in them through a number of CEF's and mutual funds. I however have found that their fees and ER's take too much away from total return for my tastes. Having said that I should acknowledge that I do hold a goodly position in GLPAX because it was available without the load in my Fidelity Roth IRA and it is performing as Junkster likes to see his mutual funds perform.
http://fortune.com/2011/12/20/why-you-should-be-wary-of-blackstones-stock/
"Because of Blackstone’s master-limited partnership structure, investors own “units” rather than stock."
See also Oaktree. There are other non-energy MLPs, as well.
Carlyle Group (CG) and Apollo Group (APO is the symbol, I think?) also fall in the same private equity MLP category. Fortress Investment Group and Alliance Bernstein are also MLPs. There's also the Brookfield spin-offs, including Brookfield Property (BPY) and Brookfield Infrastructure (BIP). Carl Icahn's Icahn Enterprises (IEP) is another, although that's highly illiquid, given Carl owns something like 93% of the shares. That is a way, however, to invest in Carl Icahn's hedge fund.There's others, as well:
http://www.dividenddetective.com/mlp_directory.htm
I suppose I just don't see MLPs growing in terms of non-energy. WP Carey (which I own) was an MLP but changed to a REIT. You'll likely see more REITs, as more things are allowed to be classified as REITs, see the Windstream REIT spin-off, as well as Iron Mountain (IRM).
The other layer are the MLP general partners, which are kind of leveraged plays on the underlying MLP/s.
http://www.dividenddetective.com/mlp_directory_general_partners.htm
I just happened by the Tortoise funds website last week and saw they had eliminated two of their CEFs and shuttled their assets to other CEFs they run (which aren't really much like the funds they erased, which would have been more than a little annoying had you been an investor in one of the funds erased). Anyone know what that was about--- assets not growing? Performance didn't seem all that atrocious. Scott, that's your territory, I believe......
re. Oaktree. Yes, but I'd wait until after the correction, when all risk will be oversold and you'll be able to get OAK maybe close to their IPO price (or below). Several of their large private equity pools are reaching maturity and being harvested; consequently, the excellent high qtrly distributions the stock has been kicking out the past 2 yrs or so will not continue and will stabilize at a lower level (so you'd want to get a better entry point for better distribution yield going forward in time, IMO).
Regards,
Ted
I think Kayne Anderson is probably doing better than Tortoise.
Thanks for the post. I'm looking to find out about MLP's. I think, too, export is the future....refined things are more profitable, I would think. But raw oil and gas are worth something too. If there's a buck to be made, we Americans will do it. Also MA is a good thing, too. The companies with the best management win. That's good! I don't understand the tax things.....in the article, even the gurus aren't sure what will happen in a major correction. That's scarey! I remember the line in the movie, "Troy," when the boy went to find Achilles (Brad Pitt) to fight the giant. The boy said, "I wouldn't want to fight him." Achilles replies, "That is why no one will remember your name." I think this fracking thing is that big that someone will come out of it and be remembered for having done so. Just me thinking.....
the PuddnHead
Finally, FundAlarm's Discussion Board is another area worth checking out. The boards are moderated, meaning that rude, off topic, or otherwise offensive messages don't get posted. With more than 25 posts on an average day, the board is amazingly active for a relatively unknown site. However, most of the posts come from "Ted," described on the site as a night owl residing in Olympia Fields, Illinois.
Ted's postings consist mostly of links to interesting news and commentary about mutual funds, and investing in general. According to the site, although officially retired, Ted doesn't fill his posts with links to stories you see everywhere. I spend all day long on the Web, but all of Ted's links that I clicked took me to stories and commentary that I wouldn't have found on my own.
You said something about tsp.....Thrift Savings Plan? Are you a government employee? Reason I ask is that my wife works for the gov't and has been investing in their TSP for years. Thanx in advance.
Pudd
Their g fund is the best if you are near retirement. my portfolio [41 years old] divided equally in portion I, C, 2040 funds, and large cap/ 20% split in [10% G funds/10% and Money market, proximately 75-80s% in stocks and 20s% in fixed income.
probably retire in 20s+ yrs so don't mess w/ it until near retirements
their fees for the funds etfs are maginal/good reasonable [barclay] company that manage the funds/
one of my colleague at work just retire last wk, he is 70s yr old, he was very greedy and put all his 650sk in china and i fund in 2007 prior the crash. now his portfolio is about 760s after the the rise and more distrubutions, he has learnt his lesson and he is 100% G funds now prior to retirement which is the best thing he did few months prior to retirement...
their 2030s or 2040 or 2050 funds are also very good if your wifey want to play 'couch potato to investment game' and don't have to do much - stay passive and active at same time
Yes the wife is about 5 years out from retiring from the US Postal Service. I also like their funds. We have G, C, I, 2020 income funds. Sold S end of last year. She works in Amish country....home of the Amish Mafia (lol!), and we are Lebanon Levi protected!
Party on dude!
the Pudd