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It's a currency that at the same time seems to want mass acceptance and underground cred - wanting to disrupt the status quo on one hand and be the new status quo on the other, perhaps. I think it needs to have some sort of overseer with credibility, but is that what the community wants? I dunno, personally I'm fascinated with its use of technology but have always thought it would run into a number of obstacles. As for mass acceptance, having the biggest exchange go dark is not positive for credibility. Then there's whether governments would be okay with a competing global digital currency (probably nah.)
I think the larger problem here is that Bitcoin claimed to have solved the problem of potential thefts through its encryption and open sourcing. Clearly that isn't the case.
As I understand it, one reason businesses have been hesitant to embrace Bitcoin is that the algorithm takes some time -- up to an hour -- to resolve itself. In other words, you don't see your money instantly because of the embedded security. If it turns out that there has been some sort of theft due to a flaw in the transactional process itself, then there is absolutely no value in Bitcoin whatsoever.
However, Office Space jokes about this being the plot of Superman 3 are welcome.
That pretty muchs sums up the story Mark. Now people want to cash in their Bitcoins back to real money. Of course that's not possible now. But these same people had no qualms getting involved in a virtual currency to begin with.
Interesting that you use the past tense for bitcoins in your criticism of aledged idiots.
*alleged*
Bitcoin is conflated with two things. The technology that underlies the virtual currency which is evolving and will endure. The current form of money exchanges set up for the currency to enable its trading that will have to undergo serious metamorphosis.
One could make similar dumb statements about use of credit cards for transactions based on the Target hacking if one was equally ignorant of credit cards and I am sure many did in the early days.
The technology and backstory is fascinating, there have been some terrific Wired articles, such as this one - "The Rise and Fall of Bitcoin" (http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/) - which I think are worth reading.
That said, I think Bitcoin continues but I think it achieving mass acceptance is increasingly unlikely.
That said, I think Bitcoin continues but I think it achieving mass acceptance is increasingly unlikely.
It will happen as soon as it starts to solve mainstream painpoints such as cheap money transfer across national borders as an example. Or avoiding international transaction fees for purchases.
Right now, Bitcoin is more popular with shadowy and fringe/paranoid/early adapter users than mainstream because it hasn't yet become relevant for mainstream pain points.
Bitcoins as an investment is a completely different matter, of course.
I love the idea of a form of currency that was outside of government central bank control. Geez, I have a percentage of my wealth bullion to this end. The BitCoin really sounds good on paper but we'll have to see how this MtGox issue is resolved and what really occurred. Was is local to MtGox or to the BitCoin itself?
Why I still think it has legs if they can get this resolved, is that it's ideal for mobile apps and is much cheaper than bank transactions (plastic credit cards that are technologically obsolete). It's a bloody smart phone app.
Lots of ignorant statements are being made by a lot of people who know very little about what bitcoins were about or how they worked.
Care to enlighten?
Hardly the place to expound on the subject but as I have mentioned above reading up a bit on the difference between the currency and an exchange like Mt Gox in their roles (and vulnerabilitied) will show up most of the ignorant statements made in this context.
Also separating out the speculative frenzy on the currency as an investment which is also based on ignorance and a consequence of too much free money in circulation in traditional currencies would help understand the virtual currency better both pros and con's.
I found this argument to be particularly compelling:
"Bitcoin is based on mistrust, which makes it almost impossible for this circle to be squared. There is a small number of cryptogeeks who really love the paradox that they can trust the protocol precisely because they don’t need to trust any given institution. Regulators, it’s fair to say, tend not to be among them. And neither are normal people, who don’t understand the math behind bitcoin, and who have no real ability to secure their coins on their own, and who therefore need to be able to trust whatever institution they’re using to store their bitcoin-denominated wealth."
@cman I get your point about "Bitcoin" and "exchanges" being different entities, but at this point in time I think its clear that any value Bitcoin has is dependent on the exchanges because of the security risks involved in storage and the speculative nature of many, if not most, people buying the thing. And if you can't exchange your Bitcoins, or even move them off any given exchange, the value quickly approaches zero as most retail establishments want to get paid *right now* for goods and services.
But I think there is another problem. People speak admirably of bitcoins as a sort of revolution in retail POS and money transfer technology, which sort of assumes existing technology rolls over or assimilates a "currency" that is supposed to be decentralized. For several years I played online poker seriously. Seriously enough that it hurt when my "money" was frozen because the feds decided to enforce money transfer laws enacted largely at the behest of the horse racing industry under the justification of prevention of terrorist money laundering. Just thinking outloud, but what happens to Bitcoin when Visa, Mastercard, and every international bank in the U.S. shows up to Congress with their lobbyists?
@mrdarcey, my closest parallel for anticipated adoption of Bitcoins is the adoption of voice over IP services which took about a decade to get into mainstream facing hostile telecoms that were threatened by it, governments that feared their use for illegal or terrorist activities without the ability to tap into it, etc. They were even banned in many countries. It took a combination of improving quality, services like Skype that made it very usable for average people, telecoms that worked out mutually beneficial interconnection arrangements, access by security agencies to tap into it, etc., to create a peaceful co-existence.
While the domains are very different, I see a similar evolutionary adoption of virtual currencies after much trial and error where the incumbents will adopt, interact and coexist with virtual currency companies that are being heavily funded as startups. Whether it is Bitcoin as it exists or some variant of it is difficult to predict.
There will always be hypesters and doubters meanwhile. The biggest barrier to Bitcoins as in any new thing is fear and mistrust from people who don't know what it is or just fear any new thing.
I think that's probably true, but I'd anticipate some level of partnering between existing money centers and those start ups to solve both the liquidity factor and give the existing players a cut. I can't see how something deliberately decentralized gets from here to there.
Maybe I lack vision, but I'm not a Luddite. And I'm still skeptical.
Most of the missing money still lost, although this makes up for some of it. This is an old wallet from a previous format that has been forgotten about since 2011.
That said, still ridiculous and really takes away further from already weakened confidence.
Fun fact: Mt Gox was originally a website about the "Magic: The Gathering" card game to exchange cards. (Mt Gox is an abbreviation for Magic the Gathering: Online Exchange.)
Comments
As I understand it, one reason businesses have been hesitant to embrace Bitcoin is that the algorithm takes some time -- up to an hour -- to resolve itself. In other words, you don't see your money instantly because of the embedded security. If it turns out that there has been some sort of theft due to a flaw in the transactional process itself, then there is absolutely no value in Bitcoin whatsoever.
However, Office Space jokes about this being the plot of Superman 3 are welcome.
Nothing. I don't invest in Bitcoins but know about the technology. It is the punching bag for every Luddite in the world today.
Bitcoin is conflated with two things. The technology that underlies the virtual currency which is evolving and will endure. The current form of money exchanges set up for the currency to enable its trading that will have to undergo serious metamorphosis.
One could make similar dumb statements about use of credit cards for transactions based on the Target hacking if one was equally ignorant of credit cards and I am sure many did in the early days.
That said, I think Bitcoin continues but I think it achieving mass acceptance is increasingly unlikely.
Right now, Bitcoin is more popular with shadowy and fringe/paranoid/early adapter users than mainstream because it hasn't yet become relevant for mainstream pain points.
Bitcoins as an investment is a completely different matter, of course.
I love the idea of a form of currency that was outside of government central bank control. Geez, I have a percentage of my wealth bullion to this end. The BitCoin really sounds good on paper but we'll have to see how this MtGox issue is resolved and what really occurred. Was is local to MtGox or to the BitCoin itself?
Why I still think it has legs if they can get this resolved, is that it's ideal for mobile apps and is much cheaper than bank transactions (plastic credit cards that are technologically obsolete). It's a bloody smart phone app.
BTW, I don't nor have ever owned a BitCoin.
peace,
rono
Also separating out the speculative frenzy on the currency as an investment which is also based on ignorance and a consequence of too much free money in circulation in traditional currencies would help understand the virtual currency better both pros and con's.
I found this argument to be particularly compelling:
"Bitcoin is based on mistrust, which makes it almost impossible for this circle to be squared. There is a small number of cryptogeeks who really love the paradox that they can trust the protocol precisely because they don’t need to trust any given institution. Regulators, it’s fair to say, tend not to be among them. And neither are normal people, who don’t understand the math behind bitcoin, and who have no real ability to secure their coins on their own, and who therefore need to be able to trust whatever institution they’re using to store their bitcoin-denominated wealth."
Felix Salmon is a bitcoin skeptic who has made a bet with venture capitalist Ben Horowitz entertainingly described here: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/02/05/272077743/a-venture-capitalist-is-betting-a-pair-of-socks-and-50-million-on-bitcoins-futur
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/02/28/us-bitcoin-mtgox-insight-idUKBREA1R06C20140228
But I think there is another problem. People speak admirably of bitcoins as a sort of revolution in retail POS and money transfer technology, which sort of assumes existing technology rolls over or assimilates a "currency" that is supposed to be decentralized. For several years I played online poker seriously. Seriously enough that it hurt when my "money" was frozen because the feds decided to enforce money transfer laws enacted largely at the behest of the horse racing industry under the justification of prevention of terrorist money laundering. Just thinking outloud, but what happens to Bitcoin when Visa, Mastercard, and every international bank in the U.S. shows up to Congress with their lobbyists?
While the domains are very different, I see a similar evolutionary adoption of virtual currencies after much trial and error where the incumbents will adopt, interact and coexist with virtual currency companies that are being heavily funded as startups. Whether it is Bitcoin as it exists or some variant of it is difficult to predict.
There will always be hypesters and doubters meanwhile. The biggest barrier to Bitcoins as in any new thing is fear and mistrust from people who don't know what it is or just fear any new thing.
Maybe I lack vision, but I'm not a Luddite. And I'm still skeptical.
Hope you're surviving this winter well.
What probably happened is that they misplaced the password and it was just found.
peace,
rono
That said, still ridiculous and really takes away further from already weakened confidence.
Fun fact: Mt Gox was originally a website about the "Magic: The Gathering" card game to exchange cards. (Mt Gox is an abbreviation for Magic the Gathering: Online Exchange.)
gawker.com/watch-a-bitcoin-booster-literally-eat-his-hat-1552837998