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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
  • Mutual Fund Research Newsletter, June 2012 edition ... What Happened to the U. S. Bull Market?
    Thanks, Skeeter; for the article.
    The article writer noted:
    "Therefore, while the crystal ball remains cloudy, with possible thunderstorms on the horizon, we think that yield-starved investors will likely resume, once the current near-panic rush to safety subsides, gradually gravitating toward those investments that offer at least the possibility of inflation-beating gains vs. the near zero after-inflation yields likely on most non-stock investments."
    >>>>> Non-stock investments, meaning bonds, eh? Yields low = yes, current price appreciation = yes
    We all need reminders and reference points in our multi-faceted investment world. Link from Ted's post.
    "Print and read aloud 3 times, then hang onto the wall"
    Regards,
    Catch
  • moves to make if us get downgrade again
    Morn'in Coffee,
    Hmmmmmmmmmm.....article note....."And four, President Barack Obama and a newly elected Congress will have maximum political capital to make it happen in early 2013."
    Apparently, the writer knows something we do not.
    The writer did not mention the fact that this congress will again have a few lame duckers who may ride their horses where they choose outside of the corral area; as their actions are no longer subject to those who elected them in a previous election cycle.
    Lastly, as to a U.S. downgrade.....well, if the U.S. is still the best turd pile growing and going, one may still find beautiful roses growing from the top of the pile; while the other global turd piles may still be growing nothing but stink weed plants.
    Roll the dice, if you so choose.
    Regards,
    Catch
  • Thoughts on mid cap value watch list?
    Reply to @kevindow:
    Thanks. I'm not averse to mult-cap funds, and in fact prefer them. (My goal in identifying funds that fit particular "squares" is not to pigeonhole them but to identify building blocks that can be used to construct a balanced portfolio. A multi-cap fund, almost by definition, is balancing out several (but hardly all) squares. At the same time, because it still averages out to a particular part of the market, its "center of gravity" can be used to adjust a portfolio that is skewed elsewhere, or to replace other funds that ply the same waters.)
    All that said, though your suggestions work for you, they're not quite what I am looking for.
    FSNAX - this is indeed a multi-cap value fund, as classified by Lipper, and even M*'s style breakdown shows a distinct value leaning (though M* puts it in the blend column, and the fund benchmarks itself against the Russell 1000, not 3000).
    But it is a new fund; and the managers, though they have managed private accounts, do not seem to have prior experience running retail funds. These factors tend to add to risk. I'm more inclined to accept high turnover (here, 174%) in a growth fund than a value one. Since the fund holds securities for just a few months, that makes it hard to figure out what it's doing by looking - and being able to do so is even more important given its short track record. Might be worth watching to see how it does in a variety of markets, though the high turnover and expenses (1.36% even after waivers) make it less attractive to me.
    GOODX - you do like new funds. Here though, the managers have long track records. And the turnover is extremely low (12%), with reasonable costs (1.10%).
    A bit larger cap than I'd like (with over 2/5 of the portfolio invested in large caps). Also, a really concentrated fund (20 stocks plus other securities) makes me uneasy - others love this show of confidence by fund managers. M* notes that due to this and the managers' general style, the they expect the fund to be rather volatile. Not what I'm particularly looking for, though that can work out well in the long term. (And especially with low turnover, they won't be dumping stocks in response to the volatility.)
    As you note, the other funds are not value-leaning, so I'll just comment briefly on them.
    UMBMX - good fund, worth keeping in mind for mid cap core.
    Nothing's perfect, and the thing for me to watch here is the turnover (195%). That doesn't seem to have affected tax costs yet, but that may be due to the fund growing so quickly (so that gains realized early in the year are spread over a larger number of investors at the end of the year, reducing the impact of the turnover). The fund tripled in size between 2009 and 2010, and again tripled between 2010 and 2011. (Years ending June 30, per prospectus). To date, since June of last year, it's "only" doubled in size. This is not necessarily a good thing, and needs to be monitored too.
    WPFIX - excellent fund, worth watching on the growth side. Does okay in down markets, somewhat outperforms in up ones. Very low turnover, reasonable expenses, very low tax costs. Somewhat concentrated portfolio (but somewhat mitigated by extremely low turnover).
    DEFIX - already commented in previous post above.
    Thanks again. Some interesting funds. Not necessarily my cup of tea, but they work for you and they seem to have a lot going for them.
  • Brazil's Disappointing Equity Market
    Brazil Disappointing Now, But Not For Long
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/05/25/brazil-disappointing-now-but-not-for-long/
    "For investors that can afford to ignore the short term technical indicators, those are the Brazilian fundamentals. Yes, the country is tarnished, but she is still alluring, said Marcelo Salomon, an economist at Barclays Capital in New York on Friday.
    Markets have become disillusioned with Brazil. Strong government intervention in several sectors, including the local currency, the real, has pushed investors to the sidelines. Equity outflows have been the norm for the last several weeks, according to fund trackers at EPFR Global.
    First the bad news, which close Brazil investors already know."
    {...}
    Salomon said in a seven page note to clients that the pessimism on Brazilian growth is “excessive.” Monetary and fiscal stimuli will push the economy up in the second half of the year.
    The credit cycle will gain more traction heading into the third quarter. The growth rate of the real wage bill, lagged by three months, is a good leading indicator of non-performance rates (overdue bills, defaulted loans). The benefits of the new upswing in growth of higher real incomes are only starting to kick in now. As we move into the second half, non-performers should start to fall, signalling a healthier banking sector. Government banks like Banco do Brasil beefing up price competition by lowering rates should have a larger short-term effect on loan spreads at places like Bradesco.
  • Funds Affect, Euro Zone...Greece or not? Does it really matter??? Your thoughts..........
    Howdy,
    Recent chatter during the past few days has theories of Greece leaving the EZ and its currency....again. Part of the theory would require that between a Friday close of Wall St. and before the opening of markets in New Zealand, would allow 46 hours to do the whole deal, including all of the needed functions of establishment of the drachma, reset all of the Greek banks..............and blah, blah.
    I don't find this as a reasonable situation and find that a formal plan would have to be in place that may require at least two weeks of work.
    --- Worse case scenario...........either way.
    Greece stays in the EZ........their debt is still worthless and is an entry in an electronic file of the ECB and countries holding the trash. If Greece leave the EZ, the electronic debt is still trash. Portugal, Spain, Ireland and Italy would monitor the reaction to such an event of Greece leaving the EZ; and have their own considerations. Germany in particular will not likely allow for a large debt into their own country to help Greece stay in the EZ; which would also likely cause inflation in Germany............but not from a growing economy.
    Regardless of who stays or goes, much of the debt is nasty paper; and in the best situation of a fix, will take many years to paydown or unwind.
    Some in Europe have mentioned offering an ECB bond. Duh, what will this do? Nada, in my opinion. These would only be fresh manure piled upon the old manure; but it is still a manure pile, only larger.
    If a perceived magical temporary fix arrives from the current Euro conference now in place. The equity markets could rally as those with shorts against these markets sell their shorts. When the upmove causes enough new value to be reaped, down come the equity markets again.
    I see large capital letter WWWWWWWW's for the markets charts for the remainder of this year. The high and low points of the WWWWWW's will come from the traders and machines.
    In the longer term, if Greece and others leave the Euro; at least they will be able to compete to some extent with any exports against stronger currencies. The hurt would come from whatever they had to import to survive; paying the big dollar/Euro. How many new Drachma would be required to buy any type of fuel needed in Greece?
    Lastly, cracks have finally appeared over the past several days in the Euro versus $. Euro's are traveling somewhere away from perceived real danger; in my opinion.
    What say you?
    Thank you.
    Respectfully,
    Catch
  • Need some advice for a friend
    also a couple of reads about retirement/long term investings
    http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748703438504577042394189481000.html#printMode
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/309386-time-to-throw-away-the-4-withdrawal-rule-for-retirement
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/309115-retirement-scenarios-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2011/11/21/withdrawal-rates-drop-as-fees-rise/
    http://www.burnsidenews.com/Opinion/Columns/2011-11-14/article-2804370/The-new-retirement-and-effects-of-market-risk/1
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/americans-in-the-dark-about-the-real-cost-of-retirement-131508253.html
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/298138-rewriting-the-4-rule
    also rono's previous retirement commentary, a must read imho
    rono - retirements
    Think of your retirement like a stool with legs. We all know that if your stool only has one leg, it won’t be very sturdy. Even if it has two legs, it will likely tip over. Once we get to three legs, it’ll stand on its own. With four legs, it becomes even sturdier. In addition, you want your legs to be strong.
    With your retirement, the objective is to have as many legs under your own retirement stool as you can. More is better. You always want more legs. In this way, even if one leg falters or is cut off, you have other legs to support your stool. Five is better than four, six is better than five.
    Examples of legs are numerous, but we can start with Social Security. Add in your Pension. How about a saving account? The equity in your house is a good one. You want to include deferred compensation and an IRA. Another leg could be an outside business – you could be an EBAY dealer, or a landlord, or have a corner store. What about having children that have gotten a good education (largely with you help, I should add). You might have a collection of widgets that have value. These ALL can become legs under your retirement stool. Which do you have and how strong are they?
    SOCIAL SECURITY. Regardless of how secure you may, or may not, think the system is, in all likelihood it will be around to a greater or lesser degree. Sure, the age at which you can start drawing may increase and even benefits may be reduced. However, it remains such a key component of our society, that to some degree it will be one of your legs.
    PENSION. Whether you’re going to receive a Defined Benefits (traditional) pension, or a Defined Contributions (401K) type pension, this is also another key leg under your stool. A traditional pension is nice because supposedly it’s a guaranteed income for the remainder or your life [note: this is no longer such a guarantee as in the past]. Sometimes you even have the choice of a “cash out” option where you can roll the monies into a Rollover IRA and thereafter have control over it. With a Defined Contribution (401K) pension, you also have some benefit in that it’s portable. If you decide to change jobs, you can ‘take it with you’. Normally, this is also through the process of moving it into a Rollover IRA.
    SAVINGS. Hopefully, we all have some savings if nothing other than an Emergency Fund. An Emergency Fund is where you start and is normally six months worth of expenses (bills). Once this fund is established, additional savings can be invested or simply left in the bank. Either way, this money also represents another leg.
    DEFERRED COMPENSATION. Many employers offer some sort of deferred compensation in addition to the 401(k), in which you have an option of also investing. Depending upon the particular plan, the limits may or may not be similar to those of a 401. You might have similar or different investment options and you also might have different withdrawal rules. However, it can become another Leg under your retirement stool.
    IRA (TRADITIONAL OR ROTH). The Roth IRA is one of the nicest gifts ever made to us by the federal government. With limits, you can contribute up to a certain amount each with after-tax dollars and later withdraw everything TAX EXEMPT. There are some minor restrictions on withdrawal of the gains (not the principal), but these are minor and end at 59 ½ . After that you can take it out however you wish without worries about the taxes. This is very neat.
    With the traditional IRA, if you have a lower income, you can contribute with after tax monies (the credit comes when you file your taxes). This money grows tax deferred but your withdrawals are subject to tax as income. There are even situations where it may be wise to contribute to a traditional IRA when you don’t qualify for the tax break. This is because you’ve contributed After tax money and therefore only the gain is taxable at a later date – not the principal. You would want to weigh the tax implications both now and in the future to go this route, but it should be considered in some situations.
    A further note about these tax exempt or deferred IRS type of retirements savings plans (401, 403, 457, traditional IRA and Roth IRA) is that they often have drastically different withdrawal rules and tax implications. This means they provide a great deal of flexibility in how your use them for retirement . . . and flexibility is good.
    HOME EQUITY. Buy a home. Period. It beats renting as you’re paying into your OWN equity, rather than the landlord’s. Over time this equity will increase and become available, should you need it, in retirement. There is even now such a thing as a reverse mortgage. This is where, in retirement, you sell your home to the bank, and continue to live in it until you die, but they pay YOU a monthly mortgage payment. However, this only works if you’ve either paid it off, or most of it, because in effect, you’re borrowing on your equity. Home equity is a great and crucial leg under your retirement stool.
    OUTSIDE INCOME. Start another business on the side. Sell stuff on EBay. Become a landlord and rent out houses. With any of these, you’re establishing a second stream of income and another leg under you stool.
    CHILDREN. You’ve heard the expression, “my son (daughter) - the doctor”. Well, don’t sneeze. Having kids and helping them through school so they can get good paying jobs is a form of security in your old age that can be very important. How many know of someone who had a parent or other relative move in with them? Whether you need or want to use it, it can be another leg.
    In summary, you want to take an inventory of the number of legs you have under your retirement stool and how strong each of them is. Can you add another leg or two between now and when you retire? Can you strengthen any of the weaker legs you presently have?
    The bottom line is that your retirement is only as secure and sturdy as you make it and having a variety of strong legs under your retirement stool, provide a diversity that can insure you against any one or more legs, getting chopped off or eliminated. Or think of it as diversifying your retirement. If diversification is good for your portfolio . . . why is it not good for your retirement?
  • Funds Boat moved behind the breakwater......
    Hi Maurice,
    You noted: "Are you reacting to what has happened in the last month, or are you anticipating something that will happen?
    >>>I have noted (past few days posts) a few areas I have been watching in particular.Aside from all of the crazy news that travels around each day, I do try to pick apart some areas to help make decisions. The first piece I watched was the pull back in metals and commodity related equities in early March. We sold 1/2 of the metal equities (FSAGX) then, as well as all of FFGCX.
    In early April, some technical indicators looked a little shakey; but there have been numerous flips and flops, so we didn't take any action then (should have, when looking in the rearview mirror, eh?). Since early May there has been weakness in some areas of the U.S. equity and appeared to be a normal pull back from the run since last fall. Next (last week) was too much weakness in both the emerging markets equity and bond area. This didn't look good from my viewpoint. Next came a few other points that I did not like: The Austrian equity market was showing larger losses than other northern Euro area neighbors. Austria was reported a year or two ago to have one of the largest bond exposures to Euro area bonds of poor quality. Monday of this week found the Australian dollar losing strength against the U.S. dollar, which to me indicated a softness perhaps being projected towards the Asia area. One other Aussie event (I can't find the link) is that their 10 year gov't bond and their central bank rate (Feds fund type of rate) converged to have near the same yield. This is also a sign of weakness and/or fear and could also indicate more buying into this area/time frame of bonds. Also the $Euro moved and stayed below the $1.30 exchange rate and continues down. The last trip point was finding the 1% daily drops in the junk bond area. This is not a normal pattern by any means. For the monitoring I do, in a most general manner; if the U.S. equity market moves down 1%, I expect to find managed junk bond funds to perhaps move down about .33%. I appears from the link in the post just in front of this post, that there was some behind the scenes business taking place in this sector. One other area and a fund we have held for some time is FDLSX, that provided other clues as this fund began to sell off and reflects selling in McD's, Yum brands, Starbucks and many other food industry areas.
    Actually I don't have any issue with what you've decided to do with your junk bond funds (ya I still use that name). I've never understood why you were so heavy into junk. Well I know a lot of people are reaching for yield, without fully appreciating the additional risk added to their portfolios.
    >>>We have held our junk bond funds for just about 3 years. Yes, these bonds are issued by companies and others that are having problems. But, if an economy is moving along, even slowly; as has been the U.S. the default risk is not great. I have noted before, that I view the HY area as bonds with the potential for capital appreciation if the demand is there, in addition to the yield; and are not unlike those who choose to buy equity funds with the potential for capital appreciation, but also are high dividend payers. With the market actions this week, the high paying dividend equities will find not mercy either.
    But your move out of equities leaves me scratching my head.
    >>>In addition to what I noted above, I am not optimistic about any fixes in the near future and expect continued downward pressure in many market areas at least through the early fall. Past this time period I remain concerned post-elections, too. I fully expect more bump and run from the big traders and will not be surprised with the recent sells and likely coming sells that there may be some sharp upward moves in the equity sectors here and other global areas. The most difficult part of this is to determine if any upward moves in the markets are anything more than the big kids playing for a few % points down and up; and down and up. They will may good money if they trade things properly.
    If I missed something; or created more questions, give me a shout.
    We'll attempt to hide out for awhile among some bond funds and watch. Lastly, I anticipate further reductions of more of our holdings on Friday. Asia markets tonight are not happy, finding Australia down -2% at this write.
    Take care,
    Catch
  • ICI Fund Inflows/Outflows This Week
    Reply to @kevindow: There's a general dislike towards equities by much of the retail population, it seems, which now includes rich people (according to a poll CNBC was discussing yesterday), who are buying diamonds and other things - hard assets (http://www.cnbc.com/id/47446781). "A recent survey from Harrison Group and American Express Publishing found that the wealthy have cut back their allocations to stocks dramatically since the economic crisis."
    Personally, my view:
    If you are near retirement age, it's understandable not wanting to take considerable risk and focusing on fixed income.
    Otherwise, as I noted in another thread, I really don't understand buying treasuries here, and while corprates and dividend paying stocks are fine and great, the race for yield is an immensely crowded trade - everyone and their cousin wants yield. That trade could go on for years, potentially, but I think it gets to a point where people may look at yield first and fundamentals second.
    People definitely don't like stocks (please, someone start liking stocks so CNBC can STFU about how the retail investor hasn't come back - it's getting to the point where I can't even have it on in the background - and now CNBC's number one idiot, Steve "Baghdad Bob" Leisman just said that the US is better off than the rest of the world, because look at this great Facebook IPO we're doing), and while the sentiment could be an indicator in favor of them, I think people have to be able to deal with what I think will be continued significant volatility because problems (like Europe) continue to be postponed and keep coming back.
    I don't think many people are willing to deal with that kind of volatility and furthermore, I think people see what's going on and - whether they're eventually going to be proven right or not - it just reinforces their view that the market is rigged, the market is too risky, the market is... (fill in the blank.) I will say that - and I've said this before - if the market really cracks again there will be tumbleweeds blowing through the NYSE - you'll lose the interest of another large portion of the population, both wealthy and not.
    Personally, I have some funds and a number of individual holdings where I think there's a compelling long-term story/theme and fundamentals (as I noted yesterday, largely overseas.) What else can ya do?
    As for rich folks, I think their view and their pulling money is why you've seen a number of hedge fund managers looking for "permanent capital" (Ackman: "... with permanent capital we can be more opportunistic during periods of market and investor distress.”) by either going for a public fund (Loeb, possibly Harbinger and Ackman now apparently early in 2013 - http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/ackman-to-go-public-with-pershing-square-holdings-in-2013-11985/) or a reinsurance company (Loeb, Einhorn, SAC) or are funds converting to mutual funds (RLSFX and the new Pimco Long/Short fund.)
  • Funds Boat, overnight and rolling in the waves....
    Howdy,
    Tis midnight in Michigan and my head should be at the pillow.
    While I sleep Asia will have decided its path and Europe will still be in play.
    I suspect a sea of red surrounding the funds boat when I awake.
    We all know of some of the nasties surrounding our investments. I have been watching Australia and Austria. The Aussie market relfecting Asian markets and Austria as it has been reported over the past few years that its central bank has a high exposure to Euro debt of various countries which may be at below junk status, eh?
    These two areas may seem a bit of a strange duo to watch, but they are part of what I view. Austria in particular has had the most serious declines in its equity markets; and perhaps this is a reflection that their may be truth of the country's bad Euro debt exposure.
    Aside from many charts and indicators looking a bit nasty, the remainder I will have to pin to intuition. The best gains from today remain to be the "short" plays on many fronts.
    Barring an overnight miracle, or the big kids deciding otherwise for the fate of our money; I fully expect to have to sit and grind through the day (Wednesday) to unload more of the equity side and related (HY/HI).
    At this point tonight, looking to the morning should find Asia equities and likely Europe with a big head slap. The dollar remaining stronger, EM bonds down again and Treasury issues may give Bill Gross a case of the fits; as well as continued strength in other bonds of perceived safety. Sidenote: the U.S. remains the best equity sector, but I do not feel it will escape the mood of the moment.
    One large saving grace(s) for Europe going forward is a further opening of the money gates of the ECB, forget about inflation for now and have full public display and cooperation from Germany. Otherwise......
    Well,...........I may be totally off base with this proposal, but it is what I see right now.
    Take care,
    Catch
  • Today's Headline ... Stocks Now Selling At a 10% Discount According to Moringstar
    Nothing is moving on fundamentals. It's all fear and/or panic right now. We'll maybe have some quick, brief surges on particular data releases, but the Markets are scared. The "new normal" is not normal at all. It's the wall of worry, about Greece and the EU in general. Throw in China's slump. It's all short-sighted. The EU has too much at stake, after working ever since WW II to CREATE the EU, to let it fall apart. But the hard decisions have yet to be made. Some bunch of somebodys are going to have to swallow hard and write-off a big buncha losses. My own holdings are down from a recent high by just -2.48%. But I've been making a change or two, lately. I added to holdings last month. (Just in time for this downturn.) Dunno if I can trust that number. But anyway, no one's come as far as to steal and eat my lunch.
    ...And so, I figure the short-term traders will serve to SUPERFICIALLY ameliorate things here and there on a daily basis. Otherwise, I am convinced that we are in the midst of an era-long funk. I'm counting more and more on bond-dividends, rather than equity-capital-gains. Profits will not soon again be like those we saw in the go-go- 1990s.
    Unfettered capitalism did this. But systems need people to run them. Big Business got too greedy, and government has been and continues to be in bed with BB. It's a recipe for awful-ness, like lasagne that comes out of the oven looking and tasting like bricks.
  • A System for the Long Term Investor to Enter and Exit Equity Positions
    Hi Kaspa,
    Perhaps I should have used a different word set.
    I will note that I fully understand the upward limit of my thinking capacity and have studied/reviewed some very complex (at least for me) charting functions. I do stop at points in this understanding and move back to the most simple of trends. You are more aware than myself of the volume of trending indicators any number of folks use. If these folks are able to improve their money growth, I salute them.
    Your call on your sells was on the money. Looking back, one finds around April 9 as a start point, with some other equity areas holding their own through about April 23, with a lot of flip flops since then.
    And your saving money from your money moves is money you will have in the future, with which again to obtain gains.
    Hats off to you.
    Selling is a tough consideration; let alone where to place the sold monies.
    Take care,
    Catch
  • Time To Close Bond Funds For Investors' Own Good ?
    Reply to @AndyJ: It's not necessarily trade in treasuries for div-paying stocks - I don't think the answer is necessarily black or white, simple or obvious. I think in the scramble for yield, there are a lot of people who bought into MLPs (for example), seeing the high yield but not doing research on the potential volatility. A fair amount of other dividend plays were likely piled into without careful research because everyone and their cousin was/is scrambling for yield.
    Treasuries are fundamentally weak, but the demand could continue for months or years. That said, I think the move into treasuries will reverse at some point sooner than later, and I think that move may be sudden and severe.
    From a Citigroup Analyst: "We also believe, when we look at the setup of the US ten-year yield, it suggests we could actually be seeing levels as low as 1.15% to 1.2% on US ten-year yields also. Overall, when we look at these bond market charts, and in particular when we look at the US charts, the indication of the type of levels we may go to, on yields and on the yield curve, are levels that are very hard to justify when you look at the underlying fundamental backdrop in the US.
    So our bias is to believe these moves that are going to come, are going to be people who are actually trying to preserve capital. The most likely cause and effect on this is going to be further turmoil (in the markets). Essentially, in that instance, the beneficiaries would tend to be German bonds, US bonds, the US dollar and the Swiss franc.”"
    http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/5/10_Stocks_to_Crater_27,_Bonds_to_Rally_&_Gold_to_Remain_Firm.html
    And other take:
    "“If you look at the following weekly chart of the US Ten-Year Note, notice the yield has never closed, on a weekly basis, below the 1.8% level. It has penetrated that level on more than once occasion, but always recovered to close back above that level by Friday.
    If we were to see a weekly close below the 1.8% level, that would definitely confirm the market would be expecting a serious bout of deflation. When the Citibank analyst, Fitzpatrick, mentioned in his KWN interview that the US Ten-Year yield could fall to as low as 1.15%, people have to understand that the conditions around the world would have to be absolutely horrific for that to occur (see chart below)."
    http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/5/11_Norcini_-_If_This_Happens,_It_Will_Signal_A_Collapse.html
    Finally, an extreme take on the longer term from Marc Faber, but not one that I think is entirely out of the question in this day and age:
    "Look at the history, for example, of Germany, for the last 100 years. They had World War I. They had the hyper-inflation in World War II. The bond-holders got wiped out three times. If you owned Siemens, and you still own Siemens today, it was not a fantastic investment, but at least you still have something. You were not wiped out. I think that in equities you will be better off because you have an ownership in a company, than by being the lenders to companies, and the lenders, especially, to governments."
    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/marc-faber-i-think-we-are-all-doomed
    As for corporate bonds, an environment that allows things to happen like the Chesapeake issue in the article earlier in this thread is concerning - that's absolutely not to say that it's a large-scale problem and I do think corporates are a good choice overall. However, I think there is the potential for a negative flipside of all of this corporate debt issuance and it would not surprise me if there were a lot more companies in a situation similar to what Chesapeake is currently doing. The scramble for yield will result (and has resulted) in people looking at yield over credit risk.
  • A Fund for the Risk-Averse in Emerging Markets
    Well, I know this thread was originally on low risk EM funds, but the comparison and comments about ARIVX bug me a little.
    The comment "...including investors rushing to get in before the fund closed (...which by the way ARIVX is underperforming its peers YTD)".
    I switched my small cap holdings to ARIVX back in spring-summer of 2011, so I guess I was one of those that went rushing in. I contend that investors that went rushing in before the fund closed were smart investors. There aren't many managers in the small cap category with the record of Eric Cinnamond. This is a 'preserve capital first' fund that is easy to hold onto in bad times and good. The fact that ARIVX didn't jump out of the gate YTD doesn't mean anything over the the long term. But if short term numbers are important, it has actually been pretty impressive in the last few months as the stock market has cooled. Heck, it's even on the positive side for the week (+.74%) when most all equity funds are down - especially it's small cap benchmark. ARIVX is beating it's benchmark in any time range you look at, except the YTD #. One week, 1 month, 3 month, 1 year. If you look at Cinnamond's previous fund, ICMAX, that funds record beats the index for the 3 and 5 year periods handily. I'm more then happy I made the switch.
    So, that's my 2cents on "...those rushing in..." to ARIVX. Not sure why, but I felt compelled to stand up for this terrific fund manager.
  • A Fund for the Risk-Averse in Emerging Markets
    Reply to @scott: I guess the thing I wonder about the initial portfolio is why the fairly long startup process for the fund (after he'd gotten Seafarer Capital organized) wasn't enough time for him to do at least some DD to come up with a somewhat more geographically diverse portfolio.
    So I don't own it now, but would love to see Sfgix move toward becoming a solid, broad-based, core EM fund - and I'd likely be a buyer if/when that comes about.
  • Overrating Stock Pickers
    Hi Guys,
    In its May 10, edition, the WSJ honored great stock analysts on an annual basis. The Journal prepared and published an extensive series of articles that featured a listing of the three top master stock pickers in 44 sub-sector equity categories.
    These top performers were granted Olympic-like status, similar to the newly minted gold, silver, and bronze metals now awarded by Morningstar in their second ranking formulation. This second Morningstar scoring procedure is purportedly forward looking in character, and supposedly contrasts with its famous “star” system which is fully rear-mirror looking by design.
    The WSJ rankings share the same attribute as the Morningstar Star system. The Star formula has revealed its mutual fund selection shortcomings over time. How useful is the WSJ assessments with respect to individual stock picks?
    On an individual stock picker basis, the WSJ listings show impressive results for the few category winners. But this is using hindsight bias; the champions for 2011 clearly established their superior records for that calendar year. But could the Journal identify these potential winners before the record was accumulated and evaluated? How persistent is performance over time? An overarching question is how skilful are the stock picker elite as a group? Do they really benefit their clients as a total?
    All stock analysts hired by financial firms are smart folks. They have great educations, super support staff, considerable on-the-job experience, and are highly motivated by personal pride, institutional recognition, and financial incentives. If anyone can successfully project future stock price movements, these guys should be the chosen ones.
    Intelligence, training and experience do matter. But the impact of these positive factors are muted if the price movements are chaotic by nature because of unknowable exogenous events and by internal complex feedback loops that are not modeled, perhaps not even recognized. The problem is further aggravated by irrational and inconsistent public behavioral responses. Investors reactions change remarkably when confronted with identical decision scenarios. Patterns get distorted over even short timeframes.
    Additionally, as Nassim Taleb and Daniel Kahneman observed in their respective “Black Swan” and “Thinking, Fast and Slow” books, luck is a key element in investment outcomes.
    Therefore, it is not shocking to discover that, although winners always exist in the stock selection marketplace, that same space also includes a substantial number of losers. The WSJ metal awards do not address the other end of this results spectrum.
    But I do. Here’s how.
    Besides showing the three superior stock pickers for each of the 44 sub-sector equity categories, the Journal also provides the class median performance for each of these categories. I used that data to complete a simple statistical analysis that yields an overall assessment of the entire host of stock analysts who were included in the contest.
    The WSJ scoring system is a little complicated so I have appended a Link to the Journal article that addresses the scoring methodology. It follows immediately:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577307901542943884.html?mod=WSJ_Investing_MoreHeadlines
    In general, a positive score means that the stock pickers generated a net positive return for investors following their recommendations. Prescient sell signals were also incorporated into the evaluation by reversing the sign on the returns. The higher the net analyst score, the higher the likely client wealth enrichment potential. Note that many individual analyst and category scores were negative for the year, a wealth depleting likelihood.
    My simple analysis did not incorporate any weighting factors to adjust for the very disparate expert numbers who populated the various sectors. That refinement would improve the analysis but requires additional work. Given that I’m a bit lazy and out of training after two decades of retirement, I punted on that task. Perhaps a more energetic MFO participant can carry that ball across the goal line.
    Unfortunately, you must subscribe to the Journal to gain access to the overarching article titled “What Makes a Great Stock Analyst?” . Sorry about that. Perhaps you can identify an indirect avenue to secure access.
    My simple global statistical assessment shows that the analysts as a complete cohort did not add wealth for their clients. All of us have been exposed to similar findings for active mutual fund management. Market experts and pundits promise much, but frequently deliver little.
    The mean net return (gains minus losses) for adhering to the analysts’ recommendations was -1.11 units for 2011. Performance variability (standard deviation) was an unattractive 10.31 units. The maximum gain was 16.07, but the maximum underperformance was -23.33. Only 21 out of 44 category groupings (47.7 %) produced positive rewards. These results are disappointing given the talent and resources committed to uncovering attractive stock possibilities. Once again, luck seems to be a dominant factor.
    Overall, the WSJ awarded 132 (3 X 44) metals. The awards were scattered among 66 institutional and research firms. Goldman Sacks collected the most metals, 9 out of 63 analysts who qualified from Goldman for the competition. From a research corporate perspective, Morningstar came in third place with 6 metals from a recognized 63 entries.
    That concludes a summary of my crude statistical analysis of the WSJ survey. Now some interpretation.
    All analysis must be placed in a context framework. How tough was the equity marketplace for the stock picking army? Was there major tailwinds or headwinds? With the benefit of perfect hindsight, it was a mixed bag. In the US, this is appropriately measured by the mixed Index returns for 2011. The S&P 500 returned 2.1 %, the Wilshire 5000 delivered 0.6 % on the positive side of the ledger. The NASD composite absorbed -0.8 % while the Russell 2000 eroded -4.2 % of wealth on the negative side. The recorded returns demonstrated that the marketplace was not easy pickings during the previous year. Perhaps that was anticipated by customers and encouraged them to more fully implement expert advice. Of course, that’s speculative on my part.
    However, remember that the WSJ challenge was focused solely on a stock pickers ability to select specific stocks, not overall market behavior. His stock instincts and intuitions were being tested to determine his skill set in that arena alone. He was credited with a positive score both if his buy picks delivered profits and if his sell signals were properly aligned with subsequent performance. The WSJ constructed a fair test to gage stock picking acumen. They formulated a valid scoring method independent of the broad market direction.
    Even with my incomplete statistical analysis, we are now in a better position to answer one of the original questions posited earlier: Do stock picking gurus globally reward their clients? My answer is “No”. Some do, but slightly more do not.
    This analysis did not consider the costs associated with their task. That cost is a lot of money out of the pockets of the customers and into the deep pockets of the star pickers and especially into the coffers of their resident firms. That’s yet another drag on customers who often underperform annual market returns.
    The WSJ’s series honoring star stock pickers is misleading since it highlights the winners but mostly ignores those pickers who subtracted from their client’s wealth. The rating and ranking game is a double-edged sword that demands a broad statistical interpretation that is frequently omitted when promoting an agenda. In his book, Daniel Kahneman described it as WYSIATI (what you see is all there is). The WSJ articles perpetuate this tendency to only deploy the intuitive portion of the brain when making investment decisions while ignoring statistical data that establishes a base rate to make a more informed decision.
    So, I am under-whelmed by these findings as presented. Expert knowledge has its limitations, especially in a complex, chaotic environment with few consistent investment rules that survive time, and an unruly, emotional investing public. My analysis morphs the buyer beware bromide into a reader beware context.
    What do you think?
    Best Regards.
  • Treasury Bond 'Bubble' Is Nothing To Fear
    Thanks Ted,
    A strategy I am trying to refine goes something like this...
    Zero Coupon and Extended Duration LT Bond prices (not yield) can be a very choppy ride just like any investment. I use EDV, Vanguard's Extended Duration ETF in combination with other Vanguard ETF Equity holdings together as a "paired investment". I have found this "paired investment" strategy helps with the "ying and the yang" of bonds and equities. I try to re-balance between these "paired investment" as they move 10% opposite one another.
    Here's an example over the last three months. If I owned VTI, Vanguard Total Stock and EDV, Vanguard Extended Duration US Treasuries as a "paired investment" there would have been a sell signal on 3/18/2012 because the difference between the two funds reach 10 percent (4% gain by VTI and a 6% loss by EDV).
    The idea is to sell a little bit of the winning of one long term holding (in the example 4% of VTI and buy a little bit of the other long term holding (in this case EDV).
    The Math on this chart:
    Feb 3rd you hold $10,000 (143.143 shares) of VTI. On 3/19/2012 VTI gains 4% = $10,400.
    Feb 3rd you hold $10,000 ( 89.032 shares) of EDV. On 3/39/2012 EDV losses 6% = $9,400.
    At Vanguard I have to buy and sell whole shares of ETFs so I would sell 6 shares of VTI (6*72.73=$436.36). I would buy 4 shares of EDV (4*105.63=$422.52). There is a need for a cash position to allow both transaction to happen on the same day.
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  • Tis not 2007/2008, but.....
    Reply to @Old_Joe: I'd agree with that, and I think the more I have CNBC on in the background and the more I hear, "WHY ISN'T THE RETAIL INVESTOR PARTICIPATING OMG!", the more I agree with that. They don't get why people are upset, they don't get why many retail investors have lost trust and the anchors stare blankly when they are told that some retail investors would honestly rather go to Vegas than put money in the market and trust Vegas more. They also - as you said - don't get the reality many people are facing.
    Either they don't get it, or - and Jim Rogers said it - CNBC is primarily a PR firm for the market. (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/jim-rogers-calls-cnbc-market-pr-agency-whose-sole-purpose-make-stocks-go-higher) CNBC just said people's anger at banks was "unfocused" and disorganized and are whining about the occupy movement and how they don't "get it." "I know people are frustrated, but why take it out on the financial services industry?" lol.
    Meanwhile, CNBC is facing its lowest ratings in many years.
    I think there are exciting companies that I want to be involved in, especially in the developing world. People aren't going to be pulled into risk again, and those hitting retirement age are going to value capital preservation over appreciation and it wouldn't stun me if you see continued movement into fixed income. That's not to say that people shouldn't invest in stocks, but I do think people have to keep expectations in check and the volatility is going to continue to cause people to exit.
    I do think that the emerging consumer has the potential to do better over time, and that's part of the reason why you're seeing moves like you are in some of the Brazil consumer names (AMBev) and Mexico's FEMSA and elsewhere. That'll be a bumpy ride, but the emerging consumer - I think - remains a potentially very good long-term theme (ECON etf is a broad way to play.)
  • Tis not 2007/2008, but.....
    Reply to @catch22: "While I am sure there are enough here at MFO who may consider our portfolio mix a bit dim-witted; this house's full retire plan is just around the corner. Cash flow from and working wage will cease. We plan to stay away from any SS distributions as long as possible, as the payments find healthy increases when waiting past age 66; and we will be aiming for age 70 to start draws. Based upon my recall, the annual SS payment moves upward about 8% each year between ages 66 and 70, when one waits. Pretty tough to find an 8% annual return on money these days, eh?
    As you are aware, at the very least; we will preserve capital to the best of our ability."
    See, the thing is, you may not necessarily be wrong in your approach from a general standpoint and there's also the fact that there's going to be a LOT of people in your generation who are going to be doing the exact same thing - they are looking to preserve capital and will not be throwing the dice with risk again. Many people in your generation will not be taking risk, and many people in younger generations can't afford to (enormous student loans, etc.)
    "I continue to be disappointed will some of the folks on the business channels. "
    Every five seconds they blather about how retail investors aren't coming back. None of them appear to have an idea as to one reason why and can't comprehend that you have many people no longer willing or able to take risks - or at least to the same degree.
  • Tis not 2007/2008, but.....
    Hi hank,
    Geez, if the 10 year travels below 1.5%; there would likely be many other nasty events taking place. I would much prefer to be an equity investor (again) to a much higher percentage.
    While I am sure there are enough here at MFO who may consider our portfolio mix a bit dim-witted; this house's full retire plan is just around the corner. Cash flow from a working wage will cease. We plan to stay away from any SS distributions as long as possible, as the payments find healthy increases when waiting past age 66; and we will be aiming for age 70 to start draws. Based upon my recall, the annual SS payment moves upward about 8% each year between ages 66 and 70, when one waits. Pretty tough to find an 8% annual return on money these days, eh?
    As you are aware, at the very least; we will preserve capital to the best of our ability.
    I continue to be disappointed with some of the folks on the business channels. There are enough of them who are almost outright fools about the economy and finance on too many days. I don't know how they arrived at their station in life with some of the pronouncements that are made to the public air waves.
    Sadly, I observed a conversation among 4 this morning; and all of these folks are nominally level headed and not loud mouths about anything. The discussion was about the 10 year T rate. Statement, more or less: "Your government is only going to pay you 1.8% to hold this note for 10 years." Others; blah, blah, yes............. I know these folks know better and any one of them could have interjected "the fact that as the yield moves down one is able to make money with the upward move of the underlying price; and when one feels rates are going to move upward; one sells. One may take advantage of this current yield fact with any of a number of active managed bond funds or etf's; and to not expect to hold onto such an investment forever."
    So many of these people do a great disservice towards too many things investment related.
    I can imagine that as the network moved to commericial break that anyone of them scratched their own asses and/or picked their noses. Hopefully, not in that order; or at the very least, used the other hand.
    Their are days when any number of folks here at MFO could be on the phone with these folks and offer the old CBS network (60 minutes?) "Point - Counterpoint" to indicate there is indeed other things to consider.
    Many IG bonds are negative yield or just slightly above, indexed to inflation. We don't really give a rip about that at this time. We're not after the yield with these bonds, we gather the price increases. The yield is just a bit of extra money. Hopefully, not unlike any equity investment, we will leave this area in a timely fashion, as needed.
    Pretty sad stuff on too many days with these chatter box heads.
    Take care of you and yours up "that'a way".
    Catch
  • Are there any funds that meet my criteria? I sort of doubt it
    From my watch list....
    Bruce Fund (BRUFX), easily. By an average of about 7%/yr
    Westport R (WPFRX)
    Eaton Vance Atlanta Capital SMID-Cap (EAASX)