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My question is should anyone buy ANY Turner funds.
The closure for TMCGX was commendable. Through two bear markets it has stayed closed. After run up in small caps they want to now open TMCGX.
Turner used to have few funds. Now they open and shutter funds like nobodies business. Their philosophy has been "don't expect us to protect you in down markets. we will always stay 100% invested. only send us the money you always need to keep allocated to stocks".
After the dot com bust they merged with a "Value" company to round out their holdings. They lost the "Growth" identity they had created for themselves. Don't want to be too hard on them. It is a business after all. However, now with the opening of TMCGX, I cannot cut them any more slack. This is pure greed talking at this point. They seriously cannot be seeing new opportunities in the micro cap arena right now which was what the fund was about.
Turner Micro Cap Fund. That was original name of the fund. My guess is existing investors did not put more money in it so they changed it to Turner Emerging Growth Fund. The word an obvious play on "Emerging Markets". Not that it is investing in Emerging Markets, but they know certain words catch the eye of individual (hapless?) investors. There is a fine line between Marketing and Bulls***. Wait a minute. WTF am I saying. No. I will petition Miriam Webster to make those two words synonyms for each other.
My prediction TMCGX will end up as a Turner Micro CRAP Fund. Then again, I never claim my analysis is scientific.
Existing investors were not allowed to invest more. Believe me, I certainly would have as my initial small purchase (right after the fund launched) rather quickly turned into a 10-bagger. Turner locked it down tight, however, and it became a bit of a monthly ritual where the TMCGX position in my statement would sit there mocking me as I could not add to it. I am glad to have the opportunity to invest addition $.
Well let me tell you my experience. I bought TMCGX in the early 2000's. Had it some 5 or 6 years. Made a lot of money guys. Bailed out in 2008 with my money in tow. I totally disagree with you VFreak. You have a choice of what you buy and just because you feel like slamming them will not deter me from rebuying it. Yes its a growth fund and yes they stay invested in bad times. Once you realize that you cannot just ride it in up and down markets its pretty easy to navigate it. I will rebuy it soon as I find a small cap that deserves to be sold. I will probably ride it until it's momentum turns down. The real lesson here is "Buy and hold" is so dead.
Okay, I respect your opinion my Crimson Friend. I guess I should have added that I actually own this fund. As a rule though I do not reinvest distributions so this has not been a 10-bagger for me.
I agree that "buy and hold" is dead. Dare I say, it should never have been born. Buy and Hold is guaranteed boon for investment managers, not for individuals. Question is would I buy TMCGX as a NEW investment now? THIS is what I was trying to address.
IMHO, there are a lot of options I have today for small cap funds. The ICMAX manager departing to Aston for his new fund is an option. I can look at other small cap specialists too. I'm not finding anything compelling about TMCGX. The original question seemed to have been posted by a potential NEW investor and not someone who has held it simply because it closed and he couldn't get back in until now.
LMVTX might have made me money for 15 years. And maybe someone at Legg Mason would have had the shame to close the fund at some point of time which they didn't. And if they had and it would have reopened now, would you just buy it because of its past glory?
TMCGX is simply NOT the fund it started out to be. That really was the only point I was trying to make. I will admit that my comment about Turner and how their "marketing" is thinking is unscientific since I've started balding and turning into a cynical old bast***. So I'm not selling my TMCGX shares, but I'm not buying any more either.
Finally, what you are suggesting is one should be smart enough to "trade" his fund positions. By that token, any fund which has "momentum" can be bought and sold when it doesn't. I don't believe that was behind the original question that started this thread of conversation. The original poster is simply asking "fund is open now, is it a buy?". Not "is it a buy for a trade?". Two very different questions.
Comments
The closure for TMCGX was commendable. Through two bear markets it has stayed closed. After run up in small caps they want to now open TMCGX.
Turner used to have few funds. Now they open and shutter funds like nobodies business. Their philosophy has been "don't expect us to protect you in down markets. we will always stay 100% invested. only send us the money you always need to keep allocated to stocks".
After the dot com bust they merged with a "Value" company to round out their holdings. They lost the "Growth" identity they had created for themselves. Don't want to be too hard on them. It is a business after all. However, now with the opening of TMCGX, I cannot cut them any more slack. This is pure greed talking at this point. They seriously cannot be seeing new opportunities in the micro cap arena right now which was what the fund was about.
Turner Micro Cap Fund. That was original name of the fund. My guess is existing investors did not put more money in it so they changed it to Turner Emerging Growth Fund. The word an obvious play on "Emerging Markets". Not that it is investing in Emerging Markets, but they know certain words catch the eye of individual (hapless?) investors. There is a fine line between Marketing and Bulls***. Wait a minute. WTF am I saying. No. I will petition Miriam Webster to make those two words synonyms for each other.
My prediction TMCGX will end up as a Turner Micro CRAP Fund. Then again, I never claim my analysis is scientific.
I totally disagree with you VFreak. You have a choice of what you buy and just because you feel like slamming them will not deter me from rebuying it. Yes its a growth fund and yes they stay invested in bad times. Once you realize that you cannot just ride it in up and down markets its pretty easy to navigate it. I will rebuy it soon as I find a small cap that deserves to be sold. I will probably ride it until it's momentum turns down.
The real lesson here is "Buy and hold" is so dead.
I agree that "buy and hold" is dead. Dare I say, it should never have been born. Buy and Hold is guaranteed boon for investment managers, not for individuals. Question is would I buy TMCGX as a NEW investment now? THIS is what I was trying to address.
IMHO, there are a lot of options I have today for small cap funds. The ICMAX manager departing to Aston for his new fund is an option. I can look at other small cap specialists too. I'm not finding anything compelling about TMCGX. The original question seemed to have been posted by a potential NEW investor and not someone who has held it simply because it closed and he couldn't get back in until now.
LMVTX might have made me money for 15 years. And maybe someone at Legg Mason would have had the shame to close the fund at some point of time which they didn't. And if they had and it would have reopened now, would you just buy it because of its past glory?
TMCGX is simply NOT the fund it started out to be. That really was the only point I was trying to make. I will admit that my comment about Turner and how their "marketing" is thinking is unscientific since I've started balding and turning into a cynical old bast***. So I'm not selling my TMCGX shares, but I'm not buying any more either.
Finally, what you are suggesting is one should be smart enough to "trade" his fund positions. By that token, any fund which has "momentum" can be bought and sold when it doesn't. I don't believe that was behind the original question that started this thread of conversation. The original poster is simply asking "fund is open now, is it a buy?". Not "is it a buy for a trade?". Two very different questions.
Best.