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What Device Do You Use To Buy Or Sell Funds, ETF's, Stocks, Bonds, etc.?
I mainly do my investing from my personal Macs .... but I'll also do tactical trades from my phone if the opportunity presents itself -- not all the time, ie on big news/drop days and I'm not near my laptop or desktop computers and I need to put a trade om.
I use my iPhone for information and limited trading while I am on the road. Otherwise I use Macs and Linux for everything else. Much secure than Windows PC.
We left our brokers years ago as we embrace the coming of the information age. The internet leveled the playing field on investment ideas and choices for those who want to be informed investors like ourselves. So we don't use brokers at all.
I do most of my investing transactions via the US Post Office. The rest (maybe 30%) I do via my Mac or via the telephone. I feel as you do, Maurice, that a cell phone is more vulnerable than other devices. But also I just am not comfortable with the durn thing. I use it for phone calls. My vision is too poor and my fingers too fat to trust myself to hit the right keys. I might make a transaction with too many zeroes or too few! Mostly I bypass brokers but when it does make more sense to use one I use my land line telephone, not my cell phone. My cell phone feels like a toy. Money is serious! I feel frivolous with the cell phone. It's subjective I know.
For better or worst, all my transactions are through my home wifi connection or some times my work PC, both lap tops. I would never open my accounts on a public wifi internet connection, not even just to view the account.
One added feature I like with my banking account is, when logging in, there is a step where they stop the process to send me a verification email from which I have to copy/paste that verification code into the banking log-in before proceeding. Kind of an added nuisance step, but if makes me feel better.
A dedicated laptop with exactly five dropdowns on it (3 brokerages, one bank and one credit card company.) No surfing, no e-mail. So far, no spam, or other incoming junk. Three years and hoping. Probably will add the two-step verification thing.
These days, all devices are computers, it's just the form factor and the OS that varies. If you're not an Apple lover and are worried about Android, you can use a Windows-based cell phone. (If you don't trust Windows/Microsoft, then you won't use a Windows-based PC either.)
Certainly there are exceptions (e.g. Amazon just stopped selling BLU phones due to continuing security concerns), but for the most part, I consider the particular OS/device immaterial with respect to security.
I'm more concerned about back end breaches. For example, this recent exposure by Scottrade of 20K customer's info.
Networking is a different question. I rarely do anything with financial sites while away from home - whether that is on a PC, tablet, or smart phone. When I do, I try to limit the use and select theoretically less risky networks (e.g. B&B vs. 300 room hotels). I don't even have cellphone data service. The $20 smart phone I carry has no service at all, but is good to use in Starbucks (with that $2 iced tea and free refills) to read headlines using wi-fi.
Form factor - any "real" work is done on large-ish screens (1920x1200) with many windows open (spreadsheets, notes, brokerage pages, etc.) My laptop is semi-permanently attached to an external screen/keyboard/mouse. (Only detached for travel.)
The one financial application for which I'll use a cellphone (networked via wi-fi) is depositing checks. The apps generally don't run on laptops, and it's easier to take a picture of a check with a cellphone than with a tablet. Though it's still easier to deposit checks in person if I happen to be passing by my broker.
Regarding Lombard brokerage ad - Lombard was bought in 1996 by Dean Witter Discover, which branded its online brokerage Discover Brokerage Direct. In 1999 Discover ran this commercial:
Does it matter which device? I think using the most secure connection available is more important than particular device. I use the cellular (AT&T) function of my devices instead of public wifi. To do this, be sure you turn off your wifi function in settings, however, or the device will likely default to wifi even though cellular is enabled. I also do use a different browser only for accessing these sites. Don't know if that's necessary, but I feel it offers an extra layer of protection.
While I have a wonderful MacBook Pro, I don't like to lean on it too much. It's a beautiful machine and they're easier to damage (Think coffee dribbled onto a keyboard). So either my 9" or 7" Ipads work fine. Haven't had any trouble logging into D&C, Price, or Oppenheimer where my infrequent trades occur. (Though the Macbook isn't cellular enabled, all our wifi emanates through cellular at home.)
I love this TV Ad, My kind of gal (uninhibited). An interesting question might be: "What are some unusual settings in which you've executed trades?"
An interesting question might be: "What are some unusual settings in which you've executed trades?"
I've placed, modified, or cancelled 'tactical' orders/trades[1] on my (secured) phones from trains, parking garages, and yes, even once while curled up under the blanket while home sick in wintertime. But those situations don't happen often and I'm usually expecting them.
[1] by 'tactical' I mean in response to some major incident/event/news.
I've checked brokerage balances, maybe even made trades from transit stations. Just killing time waiting for trains. Platforms used to have payphones, and brokers didn't add a surcharge for automated phone orders (800 numbers).
Though I don't think this is quite what you had in mind for trades executed by phone.
A few years ago I made a Roth conversion in Asia, when the market swooned. (On my laptop using a friend's home network.) Had the market taken a nosedive while we were away last month, I would have done the same thing.
Never anything unplanned though. Not like the ad (which always reminds me of the downing of a US plane in Hainan, 2001).
I've used all three (MacBook, iPad, iPhone) depending upon where I was and what I was doing when the buying/selling opportunity presented itself. I don't discriminate. I prefer not to use the phone because I have the same slow, fat fingers as a couple of others here and it's also a more cumbersome process (more steps and screens) then the other devices.
While what device is used to complete a trade is the specific topic under discussion, that's a detail that doesn't inspire me too much. A far more meaningful discussion would center on how a decision to trade is made and what tools are used to help make that decision. I'll focus my reply on that issue.
Based on my earlier posts, you guys all know where I'm going. The single most useful tool to guide the investment decision is a well organized and easy to use Monte Carlo simulator. All kinds of what-if scenarios can be quickly explored in terms of options and likely outcomes. These simulators output the range of possible outcomes and the odds of a successful survival for specified timelines.
Here are two Links that get you to a free simulator that explores 1000 possible scenarios for every case examined:
I have used both tools extensively. They are reliable codes. These websites have been functional for many years.
Explore the impact of inflation rates, withdrawal rates, estimated returns, the standard deviation of those estimates, and various timeframes on endpoint outcomes. These can all be evaluated in just minutes.
Making minor adjustments to a proposed plan can enhance a survival likelihood significantly. Small changes do matter, and these tools can guide you in the right direction. Avoiding a dangerous portfolio decision is priceless. Pitfalls are everywhere.
Please consider adding these tools to your decision making toolkit. They'll contribute to your understanding of what is important and what is not so critical. Your comfort zone will be increased. Relax!
I use unsecured wifi at hotels and coffee shop for browsing only. Otherwise, I set up my iPhone as a hotspot so that I use the iPad securely. As careful as I use my device, my Samsung phone was compromised awhile back. My family has switch to Mac products and they have serve us well.
I like the commercial @msf linked. I've viewed it twice and still not sure if the guy really owns his own country or is full of ****. However, he reminds me of a (distant) in-law. So, I suspect it's the latter.
@MJG: Your points are well taken. I'm assuming these folks are all pretty sharp investors and had already made their buy and sell decisions based on solid rationale.
Plain and simple ... I fax written instructions to my broker requesting a return confirming call. I figure a fax is more secure than email plus the fax gets an automated time and date stamp when it is received at the brokers office by their system and I get a proof of transmission generated by my fax system.
Actually, I don't pay higher fees than any others that hold their mutual funds in firm name ... only the fees the mutual fund companies send them. No brokerage account wrap fees either. I know how the system works and I use it to my advantage. When I say confirmation ... I did not mean trade confirms just confirmation (verbal) that they had received the fax and had acted on it. Sometimes they fax me back writting on my own fax memo something to the effect that the request has been received and orders have been placed along with calling me to make sure the fax is ligetiment. My account statements and trade confirms are received by mail.
I have no online account access set up (my choice) although I do have ach on demand set up so it is easy to move money between my brokerage accounts as well as to (and from) my bank. Again, I fax money transfer and order instructions to the brokers office. And, they call me to verify before acting.
Providing written instructions in what you want done is very important from my perspective. In this way if errors take place and instructions were not followed as detailed they are quickly resolved.
@MJG said: ,"While what device is used to complete a trade is the specific topic under discussion, that's a detail that doesn't inspire me too much. A far more meaningful discussion would center on how a decision to trade is made and what tools are used to help make that decision. I'll focus my reply on that issue."
@Maurice said: "For those of you who are not interested in the "how", meaning secure or unsecure access to financial services companies, may I suggest that you start and continue your "why' comments on another thread. For example, I don't know a lot about using the phone as a hotspot for security, and I find this to be informative. Others like me, may also be interested. Thank you."
Agree. I don't understand why some try to torpedo threads that have been proceeding along nicely. If you don't like the topic under discussion stay out. As Maurice advises, start your own thread on the topic you'd like discussed.
Comments
Derf
We left our brokers years ago as we embrace the coming of the information age. The internet leveled the playing field on investment ideas and choices for those who want to be informed investors like ourselves. So we don't use brokers at all.
Mostly I bypass brokers but when it does make more sense to use one I use my land line telephone, not my cell phone. My cell phone feels like a toy. Money is serious! I feel frivolous with the cell phone. It's subjective I know.
For better or worst, all my transactions are through my home wifi connection or some times my work PC, both lap tops. I would never open my accounts on a public wifi internet connection, not even just to view the account.
One added feature I like with my banking account is, when logging in, there is a step where they stop the process to send me a verification email from which I have to copy/paste that verification code into the banking log-in before proceeding. Kind of an added nuisance step, but if makes me feel better.
These days, all devices are computers, it's just the form factor and the OS that varies. If you're not an Apple lover and are worried about Android, you can use a Windows-based cell phone. (If you don't trust Windows/Microsoft, then you won't use a Windows-based PC either.)
Certainly there are exceptions (e.g. Amazon just stopped selling BLU phones due to continuing security concerns), but for the most part, I consider the particular OS/device immaterial with respect to security.
I'm more concerned about back end breaches. For example, this recent exposure by Scottrade of 20K customer's info.
Networking is a different question. I rarely do anything with financial sites while away from home - whether that is on a PC, tablet, or smart phone. When I do, I try to limit the use and select theoretically less risky networks (e.g. B&B vs. 300 room hotels). I don't even have cellphone data service. The $20 smart phone I carry has no service at all, but is good to use in Starbucks (with that $2 iced tea and free refills) to read headlines using wi-fi.
Form factor - any "real" work is done on large-ish screens (1920x1200) with many windows open (spreadsheets, notes, brokerage pages, etc.) My laptop is semi-permanently attached to an external screen/keyboard/mouse. (Only detached for travel.)
The one financial application for which I'll use a cellphone (networked via wi-fi) is depositing checks. The apps generally don't run on laptops, and it's easier to take a picture of a check with a cellphone than with a tablet. Though it's still easier to deposit checks in person if I happen to be passing by my broker.
Regarding Lombard brokerage ad - Lombard was bought in 1996 by Dean Witter Discover, which branded its online brokerage Discover Brokerage Direct. In 1999 Discover ran this commercial:
Regards,
Ted
While I have a wonderful MacBook Pro, I don't like to lean on it too much. It's a beautiful machine and they're easier to damage (Think coffee dribbled onto a keyboard). So either my 9" or 7" Ipads work fine. Haven't had any trouble logging into D&C, Price, or Oppenheimer where my infrequent trades occur. (Though the Macbook isn't cellular enabled, all our wifi emanates through cellular at home.)
I love this TV Ad, My kind of gal (uninhibited). An interesting question might be: "What are some unusual settings in which you've executed trades?"
[1] by 'tactical' I mean in response to some major incident/event/news.
Though I don't think this is quite what you had in mind for trades executed by phone.
A few years ago I made a Roth conversion in Asia, when the market swooned. (On my laptop using a friend's home network.) Had the market taken a nosedive while we were away last month, I would have done the same thing.
Never anything unplanned though. Not like the ad (which always reminds me of the downing of a US plane in Hainan, 2001).
While what device is used to complete a trade is the specific topic under discussion, that's a detail that doesn't inspire me too much. A far more meaningful discussion would center on how a decision to trade is made and what tools are used to help make that decision. I'll focus my reply on that issue.
Based on my earlier posts, you guys all know where I'm going. The single most useful tool to guide the investment decision is a well organized and easy to use Monte Carlo simulator. All kinds of what-if scenarios can be quickly explored in terms of options and likely outcomes. These simulators output the range of possible outcomes and the odds of a successful survival for specified timelines.
Here are two Links that get you to a free simulator that explores 1000 possible scenarios for every case examined:
http://www.flexibleretirementplanner.com/wp/
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/monte-carlo-simulation
I have used both tools extensively. They are reliable codes. These websites have been functional for many years.
Explore the impact of inflation rates, withdrawal rates, estimated returns, the standard deviation of those estimates, and various timeframes on endpoint outcomes. These can all be evaluated in just minutes.
Making minor adjustments to a proposed plan can enhance a survival likelihood significantly. Small changes do matter, and these tools can guide you in the right direction. Avoiding a dangerous portfolio decision is priceless. Pitfalls are everywhere.
Please consider adding these tools to your decision making toolkit. They'll contribute to your understanding of what is important and what is not so critical. Your comfort zone will be increased. Relax!
Best Wishes
@MJG: Your points are well taken. I'm assuming these folks are all pretty sharp investors and had already made their buy and sell decisions based on solid rationale.
Actually, I don't pay higher fees than any others that hold their mutual funds in firm name ... only the fees the mutual fund companies send them. No brokerage account wrap fees either. I know how the system works and I use it to my advantage. When I say confirmation ... I did not mean trade confirms just confirmation (verbal) that they had received the fax and had acted on it. Sometimes they fax me back writting on my own fax memo something to the effect that the request has been received and orders have been placed along with calling me to make sure the fax is ligetiment. My account statements and trade confirms are received by mail.
I have no online account access set up (my choice) although I do have ach on demand set up so it is easy to move money between my brokerage accounts as well as to (and from) my bank. Again, I fax money transfer and order instructions to the brokers office. And, they call me to verify before acting.
Providing written instructions in what you want done is very important from my perspective. In this way if errors take place and instructions were not followed as detailed they are quickly resolved.
Old_Skeet
@Maurice said: "For those of you who are not interested in the "how", meaning secure or unsecure access to financial services companies, may I suggest that you start and continue your "why' comments on another thread. For example, I don't know a lot about using the phone as a hotspot for security, and I find this to be informative. Others like me, may also be interested. Thank you."
Agree. I don't understand why some try to torpedo threads that have been proceeding along nicely. If you don't like the topic under discussion stay out. As Maurice advises, start your own thread on the topic you'd like discussed.