Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
So I was about to send in my application for the Bruce Fund and noticed its Max DD number is 40%. As a comparison OAKBX is 27%. Then again PRWCX is 36%
I wanted to add it is possible BRUFX Max DD data may not be correct while I do see it dropped a lot. Why do I say that? Look at WGRNX Max DD number. It says it is just 16. WGRNX dropped a whole lot in the 2008 crisis.
Bottom line, data MFO receiving from Lipper is suspect.
@VintageFreak You can do some homework @ the link below.My largest holding.Often some deep value and thinly traded securities in portfolio.In times like '08-'09, value can get a lot deeper and if few want your IBM shares who's going to buy your Alanco Technologies, Inc. shares.Yes that was an extreme draw down for a M* moderate allocation fund but the long term performance is exceptional.Father/Son managed fund,Consider age and experience? One of Ted's favorite links: http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/mutual-fund/screener?FundType=0&FundValue=0&ReturnFundPeriod=11 Management’s Discussion and Analysis REPORT TO SHAREHOLDERS 1 BRUCE FUND, INC. Annual Report June 30, 2009 ( Bold added) The Bruce Fund (the “Fund”) shares produced a total return of -24.31% for the six months ended December 31, 2008, compared to a total return of -28.48% for the S&P 500 Index for the same period. The first six months of our fiscal year were dismal. While we thought we were prepared for the onslaught, we were wrong. Positions in low rated convertible bonds dropped precipitiously with no support from interest payments. Likewise our common stocks were punished, much worse than we anticipated. The U.S. Government bonds showed appreciation in the period and the cash balances remained above normal. The outlook for capital appreciation is muted. The economy could be weaker for much longer than most believe. Preservation of capital is job one. Gains will be hard fought. Bear markets do several things; they wash out inefficient companies and create values. There will come a time to be more aggressive and we hope we will be ready. Management will continue to screen investment opportunities for their capital appreciation potential and profile that against the risks the investment might present. Areas of recent interest have been various bonds selling at discounts to par value offering reasonable yields. The bonds as well as the stocks in the portfolio encompass significant investment risks, which are again outlined in the prospectus Footnotes to some of BRUFX holdings (a) Non-cash income producing security. (b) In default. (c) Private Placement and restricted security under Rule 144A of the Securities Act of 1933. (d) Variable rate securities; the money market rate shown represents the rate at June 30, 2009. (e) This security is currently valued according to the fair value procedures approved by the Board of Directors. (f) This security has no expiration date, it will convert to common stock at a future date
Checking with StockCharts for total return and I find that from 10-9-2007 ($298/share, just shy of the high price for 2007) through 3-2-2009 ($177/share) indicates a drawdown of 40.6%.
I have owned BRUFX for years in a regular account. Bought into it when NAV was about $288 per share.
I thought there were some states that would not permit you to buy BRUFX?
That's correct. I'm in TX and lamented about it long, until someone not too long back on MFO let me know it is now available in TX. Since minimum is $1000 I'm thinking I would start DCAing in. At least enter at $1000 and watch and creep in over time, would be a better way to put it.
The power of patience. Not just of BRUFX managers but both of investors who did buy and those who didn't. It's top holding was once $2, now it is $450. The problem is it is now 12% of the fund. The chart below shows BRUFX underperformed the S&P 500 for 20 years after inception.
After having waited so long, I think I might want to wait a bit longer.
@VintageFreak. The database is good. It's the presentation of the legacy screener that is causing you the confusion. The tabulated metrics are only for the longest evaluation period applicable ... 1, 3, 5, 10, or 20 years ... so you can only compare the metrics of funds from same age group. The return group rankings are directly comparable, but not the metrics.
Below are the risk/return metrics for BRUFX, OAKBX, PRWCX, and WGRNX across various periods from the MFO premium site ... hope this helps.
@VF - I'm in the same boat as you - been looking for another moderate allocation fund the past few years to compliment PRWCX - was going to go with BRUFX - but passed and keep adding to PRWCX instead; but it's getting to be too big a chunk of my portfolio. Thinking of just starting a position in GLRIX within a couple of years to balance.
There are too many negative things I see with BRUFX - thin bench, succession plan issues - the dad is older than dirt and the son is up there now too, have to do contributions via paper check, strict limitations on withdrawals per their prospectus, limited access and literature on them, long periods of underperformance. Possibly some of these negatives are unwarranted - it's just hard to find any info out there on these guys!
Comparison of a balanced fund against VFINX seems a little dubious. How about VBINX as a benchmark?
Good point, however Da Bruce describes this as a go-anywhere do whatever you want fund. Most balanced funds do not dabble in small caps so there is no real comparison for BRUFX. The only realistic option is to compare against the market.
But since you asked, here's comparison against PRWCX. I did my best to guess PRWCX inception date since it is a newer fund. You tell me.
Comments
Bottom line, data MFO receiving from Lipper is suspect.
One of Ted's favorite links:
http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/mutual-fund/screener?FundType=0&FundValue=0&ReturnFundPeriod=11
Management’s Discussion and Analysis REPORT TO SHAREHOLDERS 1
BRUCE FUND, INC.
Annual Report
June 30, 2009 ( Bold added)
The Bruce Fund (the “Fund”) shares produced a total return of -24.31% for the six months ended December 31, 2008,
compared to a total return of -28.48% for the S&P 500 Index for the same period. The first six months of our fiscal year
were dismal. While we thought we were prepared for the onslaught, we were wrong. Positions in low rated convertible
bonds dropped precipitiously with no support from interest payments. Likewise our common stocks were punished,
much worse than we anticipated. The U.S. Government bonds showed appreciation in the period and the cash balances
remained above normal.
The outlook for capital appreciation is muted. The economy could be weaker for much longer than most believe.
Preservation of capital is job one. Gains will be hard fought.
Bear markets do several things; they wash out inefficient companies and create values. There will come a time to be
more aggressive and we hope we will be ready. Management will continue to screen investment opportunities for their
capital appreciation potential and profile that against the risks the investment might present. Areas of recent interest
have been various bonds selling at discounts to par value offering reasonable yields. The bonds as well as the stocks in
the portfolio encompass significant investment risks, which are again outlined in the prospectus
Footnotes to some of BRUFX holdings
(a)
Non-cash income producing security.
(b)
In default.
(c)
Private Placement and restricted security under Rule 144A of the Securities Act of 1933.
(d)
Variable rate securities; the money market rate shown represents the rate at June 30, 2009.
(e)
This security is currently valued according to the fair value procedures approved by the Board of Directors.
(f)
This security has no expiration date, it will convert to common stock at a future date
http://www.thebrucefund.com/document-library.aspx
Checking with StockCharts for total return and I find that from 10-9-2007 ($298/share, just shy of the high price for 2007) through 3-2-2009 ($177/share) indicates a drawdown of 40.6%.
Note: We don't own BRUFX.
Regards,
Catch
BRUFX Fifteen Year Performance:
http://performance.morningstar.com/fund/performance-return.action?t=BRUFX®ion=usa&culture=en_US
BRUFX Is Ranked #3 In The (MA) Fund Category By U.S. News & World Report:
http://money.usnews.com/funds/mutual-funds/moderate-allocation/bruce-fund/brufx
I thought there were some states that would not permit you to buy BRUFX?
After having waited so long, I think I might want to wait a bit longer.
Regards,
Ted
Below are the risk/return metrics for BRUFX, OAKBX, PRWCX, and WGRNX across various periods from the MFO premium site ... hope this helps.
There are too many negative things I see with BRUFX - thin bench, succession plan issues - the dad is older than dirt and the son is up there now too, have to do contributions via paper check, strict limitations on withdrawals per their prospectus, limited access and literature on them, long periods of underperformance. Possibly some of these negatives are unwarranted - it's just hard to find any info out there on these guys!
Regards,
Ted
http://money.usnews.com/funds/mutual-funds/rankings/moderate-allocation
But since you asked, here's comparison against PRWCX. I did my best to guess PRWCX inception date since it is a newer fund. You tell me.