Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
In another thread, @scott posted a link to the news that another case of Ebola has been found in Dallas. This person is a health care worker at the same hospital where the first case was admitted.
The term Black Swan tends to get overused but if this situation gets worse it might be applicable.
I own ECL. I think it's not a pure play on this situation, but I can see demand increasing for some of their services. Longer term, I think it works as a play on a number of things, including energy, water (which I think is a primary interest - read an interesting article the other day about how much water it takes to produce certain common items, rather astonishing), food safety and even bed bugs.
Becton Dickinson is another one I remember from my hospital days.
On a side note, the possible reason this person got infected while wearing gear is a mistake was made in removing it. It has to be done from the inside out.
Oh, and the 2nd nurse from Dallas decided to fly to Cleveburg the night before she turned herself in as she was hooking up with her mom and SO to plan her wedding. The plane then had two more flights before it was decontaminated.
And damnit, I was between custodians and so didn't short the airlines. Right now, there's still time. Short the airlines, cruiseship, car rentals, hotels, ANYTHING to do with travel.
Long - haz mat, but this is all such unmitigated BS as the CDC was saying on the news that there's plenty of hazmat suits, whereas the biz channel was talking to industry reps and they said it's panic buying across the country for civilian sales - and that they're selling out.
Blithering gd idiots.
Oh, and how about we ban all travel to and from Texas.
Long - haz mat, but this is all such unmitigated BS as the CDC was saying on the news that there's plenty of hazmat suits, whereas the biz channel was talking to industry reps and they said it's panic buying across the country for civilian sales - and that they're selling out.\ peace,
rono
You know, it's interesting that the small pure plays (LAKE, for an example) have gone absolutely parabolic and the giant companies (3M, for example) have gotten hit along with the rest of the market.
I really think this is overblown - not to diminish the seriousness. And yes, Ebola has ravaged parts of Arrica where local customs (such as touching bodies during final rites) have exacerbated the problem and hindered efforts of relief workers.
They have a "czar" now - an old political hack & attorney by training. My thinking is he's there to become the "fall-guy" in 6 months or so as the epidemic grows. At that time he'll resign in the face of growing criticism and somebody more qualified with medical training will take over.
But the hype is just tooooo much. CNN's coverage last evening was shameful. Poking mikes In the faces of weeping family members and live continuous coverage of the ambulance plane ferrying one of the exposed nurses to Maryland for treatment. Give me a break Anderson Cooper. This is all about selling commercials and has nothing to do with educating the public.
Shoppers in WalMart today wearing surgical masks? *#!!**#
what is overblown? inability to contain a deadly virus devastating 3 west african countries, or the lack of procedures for hospitals in the US dealing with sick people who have been travelling to West Africa, or getting on a cruise ship when you have been recently dealing with a deadly virus that takes days to show symptoms.
@Accipiter: The hysteria has been overblown. Terrible disease and poor planning here. Great concern here for our dedicated health care workers who are in harm's way. But we shouldn't be afraid to leave our homes or travel places. Compared to the many dangers and afflictions that confront our population (addictions, other diseases, child/spousal abuse, hunger, neglect, violence) this is likely to afflict relatively few in percentage terms. (That's little solace if you're one of the afflicted).
I'm not medically trained, but do get the sense from my general reading (It's been in the global news for six months) that this thing is not easy to contract. I'll send you a check if there's a single proven case in this country of anyone catching Eubola only from air-borne particles - be that on an aircraft, at a movie theater, at WalMart or whatever. The virus simply isn't spread that way.
It's a lack of understanding regarding Ebola. Just like AIDs before and leprosy before that. Some of these questions regarding the virus being airborne might be from African experience where they are dealing with large numbers of dead and diseased. With concentrations that high anything is possible. Remember back in the old days regarding the big three childhood diseases? ( Measles, mumps, chickenpox)Easy to catch because lots of kids in the neighborhood got it at the same time. Everyone had the disease sooner or later. Today it goes on the news if there is an outbreak of any of these.
"Airborne" might need defining for purposes of discusdion, I'll not be afraid to sit on an aircraft as I always do and head for FLA, NY or some other interesting destination while inhaling the normal cabin atmosphere. Now - if somebody went out of their way to lean in my direction and cough forcefully in my face ... that's another matter. But, why would anyone do that? It's never happened before on hundreds of flights. And, for that matter, they could poison my beverage or shove me down the deplaning stairway at a smaller airport if they really wanted to harm me.
>Airborne" might need defining for purposes of discusdion, I'll not be afraid to sit on an aircraft as I always do
me neither.
but, what if the person sitting next to you was a nurse (who had little or no training with level 4 diseases) taking care of an ebola patient the day before.
point being - lack of training and poor judgement, and slip ups.
So, a slip up (with a non-contagious disease) when some relevant info doesn't get passed on from er to another doc, or someone fails to read the chart or ignores the obvious, the only person at risk is the patient. Slip ups now with diseases like ebola, no longer just put the patient at risk.
Now shoddiness or poor practices, can lead to higher implications (general populations and the health care provider themselves) where "Do no Harm" no longer applies.
As with any profession, there are people who are good at what they do, and people are not. It doesn't matter what the profession is. Health care providers and Doctors and nurses are not exempt.
@hank, It's not that they cough in your face, all they have to do is cough in their hands and then handle the same things you will handle later like armrests, seat backs, etc. Alcohol gel is a good friend to have while traveling.
I've traveled where my seat mate was obviously sick and yet he/she handed my meal tray to me. I lost my appetite at that point. Personal responsibility is key and that might mean wearing a face mask if you have a cough/cold and are traveling.
@Acvipiter: Good question. (Perhaps intended as rhetorical.) That will happen. It's a big country. But the odds that it will be you or me sitting next to that nurse are extremely remote.
As far as the nurse spreading the virus to someone sitting next to him/her .... I still think there would need to be some exchange of bodily fluids and that casual conversation wouldn't result in said exchange. Agree, however, that in that close of proximity such an exchange of fluids is possible.
We will learn a great deal following up on the people who were on the (now two) Ohio flights with the infected nurse. My hope and expectation is none of the passengers (nor any subsequent travellers on that Frontier plane) will test positive. If I'm correct on that, it would be good news and possibly help alleviate some of the current hysteria,
Thanks for the pointers John. I wondered about you re the Ebola scare since you travel overseas so much. Guess I've been lucky so far. Not as conscientious as you in some regards. Did read once about hotel TV remotes being a big issue and attempt not to mix using the remote with eating. One hotel recently actually had the remotes wrapped in sanitized packaging when we arrived at the room. So, they've gotten the message.
Why not start taking the temp of all BOARDING passengers on int'l flights. Anyone running a fever of let's say, 99.5 or greater DOES NOT BOARD. I don't care if it's Ernie Ebola or your snot nosed kid. Anyone bounced, anyone in their party, gets a full refund.
Would this prevent the guy that gets infected on the way to the airport? No but it would address a lot of the issues.
That is easy to do too. They have had temperature scanners here in Asia since the SARS outbreak. Most of the time you don't even know they are there. For Ebola though, it has to be stopped at the origin.
Correction to my suggestion. Seems that there are LOTs of people with temperatures for many different reasons and this would be too large a sweep. Hell, my brother told me about an old man with a urinary infection that interviewed because he was running a fever. Oops, his plane made a stop in Dallas . . . and they freaked and locked this poor bastard up for 4 hours while they ran around with their hair on fire. Finally, they let the poor guy out to go pee.
So . . . how about taking the temp of anyone coming from or thru a hot zone AND interviewing each person that trips the lever to see why they have a fever.
With the news of the doctor testing positive for ebola in NYC, I thought I would bump this thread. From this distance, it appears the New York City response has been excellent and thorough and hopefully this will be an isolated case. Time will tell us though.
The federal government has been slow to enact policies to defend the country from this threat IMO. My grandfather was in a TB sanitarium for years while I was a baby and a few years until his passing. That was the practice then and a long time ago. When the immigrants of the early 20th century came to America, those with certain diseases were held in quarantine at Ellis Island which is the more famous of these sites.
Just a thought, but should we start thinking of a automatically quarantine for anyone coming out of the affected areas in Africa? The place would be in Africa where a place could be setup and have comforts available like air conditioning, clean food and water etc. After the 21 day or whatever the period is designated, those people could then travel if they are clear. This disease has the bad symptom of being symptomless for a week or so after exposure unlike the flue or the common cold viruses. It has been reported today that the CDC is reviewing such policies and something like this may be enacted
I am not saying this is the answer but it may be necessary for the good of society. Your thoughts?
Comments
I am very concerned about the situation.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1749482-ecolab-why-bill-gates-owns-10-percent-of-the-company
On a side note, the possible reason this person got infected while wearing gear is a mistake was made in removing it. It has to be done from the inside out.
And damnit, I was between custodians and so didn't short the airlines. Right now, there's still time. Short the airlines, cruiseship, car rentals, hotels, ANYTHING to do with travel.
Long - haz mat, but this is all such unmitigated BS as the CDC was saying on the news that there's plenty of hazmat suits, whereas the biz channel was talking to industry reps and they said it's panic buying across the country for civilian sales - and that they're selling out.
Blithering gd idiots.
Oh, and how about we ban all travel to and from Texas.
and so it goes,
peace,
rono
Long ECL.
http://www.ecolab.com/news/ecolab-3m-send-medical-supplies-to-west-africa/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/12/cuba-leads-fights-against-ebola-africa
Btw, Cuba has the largest medical school in the world.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-scare-creates-utter-panic-caribbean-cruise-ship/story?id=26276019
should heath-care workers be given common-sense lessons.
They have a "czar" now - an old political hack & attorney by training. My thinking is he's there to become the "fall-guy" in 6 months or so as the epidemic grows. At that time he'll resign in the face of growing criticism and somebody more qualified with medical training will take over.
But the hype is just tooooo much. CNN's coverage last evening was shameful. Poking mikes In the faces of weeping family members and live continuous coverage of the ambulance plane ferrying one of the exposed nurses to Maryland for treatment. Give me a break Anderson Cooper. This is all about selling commercials and has nothing to do with educating the public.
Shoppers in WalMart today wearing surgical masks?
*#!!**#
what is overblown? inability to contain a deadly virus devastating 3 west african countries, or the lack of procedures for hospitals in the US dealing with sick people who have been travelling to West Africa, or getting on a cruise ship when you have been recently dealing with a deadly virus that takes days to show symptoms.
The Peter Principle lives on.
I'm not medically trained, but do get the sense from my general reading (It's been in the global news for six months) that this thing is not easy to contract. I'll send you a check if there's a single proven case in this country of anyone catching Eubola only from air-borne particles - be that on an aircraft, at a movie theater, at WalMart or whatever. The virus simply isn't spread that way.
Ebola is an RNA virus.
http://jvi.asm.org/content/79/18/11555.full
me neither.
but, what if the person sitting next to you was a nurse (who had little or no training with level 4 diseases) taking care of an ebola patient the day before.
point being - lack of training and poor judgement, and slip ups.
So, a slip up (with a non-contagious disease) when some relevant info doesn't get passed on from er to another doc, or someone fails to read the chart or ignores the obvious, the only person at risk is the patient. Slip ups now with diseases like ebola, no longer just put the patient at risk.
Now shoddiness or poor practices, can lead to higher implications (general populations and the health care provider themselves) where "Do no Harm" no longer applies.
As with any profession, there are people who are good at what they do, and people are not. It doesn't matter what the profession is. Health care providers and Doctors and nurses are not exempt.
I've traveled where my seat mate was obviously sick and yet he/she handed my meal tray to me. I lost my appetite at that point. Personal responsibility is key and that might mean wearing a face mask if you have a cough/cold and are traveling.
As far as the nurse spreading the virus to someone sitting next to him/her .... I still think there would need to be some exchange of bodily fluids and that casual conversation wouldn't result in said exchange. Agree, however, that in that close of proximity such an exchange of fluids is possible.
We will learn a great deal following up on the people who were on the (now two) Ohio flights with the infected nurse. My hope and expectation is none of the passengers (nor any subsequent travellers on that Frontier plane) will test positive. If I'm correct on that, it would be good news and possibly help alleviate some of the current hysteria,
Why not start taking the temp of all BOARDING passengers on int'l flights. Anyone running a fever of let's say, 99.5 or greater DOES NOT BOARD. I don't care if it's Ernie Ebola or your snot nosed kid. Anyone bounced, anyone in their party, gets a full refund.
Would this prevent the guy that gets infected on the way to the airport? No but it would address a lot of the issues.
and so it goes,
peace,
rono
Correction to my suggestion. Seems that there are LOTs of people with temperatures for many different reasons and this would be too large a sweep. Hell, my brother told me about an old man with a urinary infection that interviewed because he was running a fever. Oops, his plane made a stop in Dallas . . . and they freaked and locked this poor bastard up for 4 hours while they ran around with their hair on fire. Finally, they let the poor guy out to go pee.
So . . . how about taking the temp of anyone coming from or thru a hot zone AND interviewing each person that trips the lever to see why they have a fever.
and so it goes,
peace,
rono
Regards,
Ted
The federal government has been slow to enact policies to defend the country from this threat IMO. My grandfather was in a TB sanitarium for years while I was a baby and a few years until his passing. That was the practice then and a long time ago. When the immigrants of the early 20th century came to America, those with certain diseases were held in quarantine at Ellis Island which is the more famous of these sites.
Just a thought, but should we start thinking of a automatically quarantine for anyone coming out of the affected areas in Africa? The place would be in Africa where a place could be setup and have comforts available like air conditioning, clean food and water etc. After the 21 day or whatever the period is designated, those people could then travel if they are clear. This disease has the bad symptom of being symptomless for a week or so after exposure unlike the flue or the common cold viruses. It has been reported today that the CDC is reviewing such policies and something like this may be enacted
I am not saying this is the answer but it may be necessary for the good of society. Your thoughts?
Regards,
Ted