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Scout International (UMBWX)

willmatt72
edited January 2014 in Fund Discussions
Any thoughts on this fund as a choice for large cap growth/blend in a portfolio? It had a poor 2013 and has fallen behind its index for 3 and 5-year returns, according to *M. I've held it for several years now and just feel as though I can find a better fund in that spot. Currently, I hold ARTGX and MAPIX, but I was looking for something that is strictly a large cap international with fairly low standard deviation and half decent ER and SD. Any ideas? Thank in advance.

Will

Comments

  • TedTed
    Dear willmatt72: Come home to America for a LCG or LCB fund. In 2013 the average domestic LCG fund averaged 29.63%, while the average foreign LCG averaged 15.23%. The same for LCB, the average domestic LCB averaged 27.26% while the average foreign LCB averaged 15.81%
    Regards,
    Ted
  • kevindowkevindow
    Hi Will,

    Among funds that are open to new investors, my top pick would be MINIX, which continues to be available at Wellstrade (no minimum, must involve a rep to buy) and at Scottrade ($100 minimum + TF). This class does not appear to be available at TDA or Fidelity. Although the fund has $15.3B in AUM, it continues to deliver excellent returns with lower than category average volatility.

    Kevin
  • willmatt72
    Thanks for the info. Currently, I hold accounts at Fidelity and Vanguard so I'll have to buy something from one of those two brokerages.
  • willmatt72
    I was hoping for a few more suggestions. Any ideas before I consider this post closed and/or uninteresting?
  • finder
    I would suggest you to consider FMI International FMIJX.
  • willmatt72
    Short history but impressive performance thus far. Thank you. I'll be looking at this over the weekend.
  • finder
    edited January 2014
    FMI has a long history of successful domestic stock investment, look at FMIHX and FMIMX, both "gold" in M*, both closed to new investors.
  • catch22catch22
    Howdy willmatt72,

    No direct suggestions; but this list may help you sort for some more choices.

    Click upon whichever fund group you want to view; large growth, blend, etc. This will bring up a list of funds in that group. You may then click upon the headings (1 year, 3 year, etc.) to further sort the list for return percentages.

    Good hunting.

    Regards,
    Catch
  • cman
    Suggest it might be helpful to think about why you need a third fund in addition to the two you have and that would make it easier to filter and select a fund.

    For example, if the goal is geographical diversification, you will need a Europe or EMEA fund/etf. If that is difficult to find, something that faithfully follows MSCI EAFE index like the UMBWX. At Fidelity, FIGRX would be a better choice than the latter, a boring faithful-to-the-index fund in volatility and diversification but generating a small alpha over time.

    If the goal is strategy diversification, you can complement the go anywhere and dividend strategy funds you have with a currency hedge strategy fund like the FMIJX suggested here. You would need to understand what is under the hood to make such a choice.

    Be careful of selecting based on recent performance without understanding why for each fund since there are always distortions in recency. Most international funds in 2013 with good performance did so with overweighting US or Japan. That may or may not be what you want in your portfolio depending on what else is in it.
  • willmatt72
    In my case, I just don't think ARTGX is a true international fund as it has half its holdings in the US. If I'm going to drop UMBWX due to mediocre performance, I would like to have something that fills the void - a true large cap international fund that covers Europe but not necessarily Japan. MAPIX has a rather large stake in Japan already. UMBWX had a fairly good size stake in Japan and still underperformed in 2013. That was a bit off-putting to me. I did notice that FMIJX is hedged and non-diversified as it takes rather large bets on its picks. Thus far, it has panned out in a good market. It does appear to be less volatile than UMBWX with a comparable ER and slightly better SD over 3 years.
  • MikeMMikeM
    OAKIX has a large stake in Europe, somewhere in the vicinity of 75%. I exchanged UMBWX for OAKIX at the start of 2013.
  • bumine
    Perhaps Fidelity Overseas, FOSFX (70% Europe, 18% Japan) - improving under new manager since 2012. Just a tad better than FIGRX suggested earlier (FIGRX is 65% Europe, 18% Japan). And don't forget FDIVX (61% in Europe and 18%, Japan).

    But if you are going with a focus on Europe, then I'd look at PRESX (my pick ahead of MEURX - another top Europe Stock fund).
  • willmatt72
    Reply to @MikeM: HI MikeM - thanks for the reply. While I cannot deny OAKIX's long-term record, I'm not too comfortable with its volatility. I'm looking for something with a bit of a smoother ride than UMBWX.
  • mrdarceymrdarcey
    edited January 2014
    Not really growth funds, but if volatility is your biggest concern, I'd think about TBGVX / TBCUX or the previously mentioned FMIJX. FPIVX and JIFDX / JIFTX could also be considerations, or you could look at any of the low vol ETFs. You could also look at ARTIX or EXITX if you want something a little growthier.
  • cman
    Reply to @willmatt72: I wonder if you are looking for a unicorn. You want lower volatility and high performance?

    What are the parameters of volatility and performance that you would be comfortable with? You can screen for that in the online mutual fund screeners I think as a more productive way than act like a picky dater here.:-) People can then provide opinions on what you come up with.
  • equalizer
    Sextant International SSIFX is low risk/return.
    This is small cap but has done well- Grandeur Peak Global Opportunities Inv GPGOX.
    You could try 60/40 in these funds?
  • willmatt72
    Some very good suggestions - thank you !
  • willmatt72
    Reply to @cman: Thus far, the most intriguing picks to me are TBGVX, SSIFX and FMIJX. Any thoughts?
  • InvestorInvestor
    Reply to @bumine:

    I like FIGFX more at Fidelity
  • cman
    Reply to @willmatt72: Good examples of the limitations of using volatility measures to judge risk. TBGVX has lower SD numbers than SSIFX but if there is another serious downturn, it will lose a lot more than SSIFX. SSIFX has higher volatility numbers but has better downside protection. It will consistently underperform as the cost of being conservative to limit drawdown and probably disappoint you in bull markets given your reactions here. FMIJX doesn't have sufficient history to say what will happen in the next downturn and so its low volatility may spike up after that downturn if it follows the market down all the way.

    All are good funds. Pick TBGVX over SSIFX if you prefer performance over higher drawdowns and vice versa. Pick FMIJX if you can actively monitor your funds and willing and able to get out if this fund starts to significantly follow the market down in a downtrend.
  • willmatt72
    Reply to @cman: Thank you for the input, cman. Your points are well taken.
  • willmatt72
    Well I took the plunge with FMIJX - I'm going to DCA over the course of about 5 months to get up to full speed with the sale proceeds of UMBWX. I read David's evaluation of FMIJX here and was convinced that it's a good fit for my needs. I also like the fact that the managers all have their own money invested in the fund. We'll see how it goes ! Thanks for the help !
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