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Diversifying with Neuberger Berman

VintageFreakVintageFreak
edited September 2013 in Fund Discussions
I am close to taking a leap of faith for diversifying my "Artisan" portfolio. I have some PDRMX in it right now. NLSAX and/or NABAX is what I'm looking at.

Anyone has any insight into these funds. I know NLSAX has come up in discussions, maybe even I started it. It has good manager investment. Same with NABAX, which is quite new - and expensive unfortunately - and is made up of hedge fund managers who also have reasonable investment.

Appreciate any comments.

Comments

  • ducrow
    Why Dont You Look At WBMIX - It Has Better Returns - It has Lower Expenses - I Own It Myself!!!
  • TedTed
    Reply to @ducrow: & VintageFreak; Isn't this a bad time to short the market ?
    Regards,
    Ted
  • VintageFreakVintageFreak
    Reply to @ducrow: First, I need the fund available at one of my brokerages and it isn't. Second, you quoted institutional shares, and the investor shares carry a load not to mention ER goes up, but admittedly less than NLSAX. However, load is the real issue. Third, they have a long short fund which is actually more guaranteed to be long/short the way Whitebox intended it instead of M* telling us how.
  • VintageFreakVintageFreak
    Reply to @Ted: Long/short does not mean shorting market. It means going long and going short at same time. Fact it NLSAX manager in his latest report actually is bullish on the market. That does not mean he will not short anything.

    In any the idea is allocate 5-10% to alternative investments to reduce volatility of the portfolio. Since my "Artisan" portfolio is largely buy and hold, I'm looking to do this.
  • ducrow
    edited September 2013
    I Purchased The Institutional Shares At Fidelity. WBMIX Is a Long Short Fund - WBSLX Is a Market Neutral Fund - I Believe a Good Long Short Fund Will Out Perform a Market Neutral Fund!! I Also Own Shares In Another Long Short Fund - MFLDX - And I Am Considering Buying At Some Point Shares In FMLSX or ARLSX (leaning towards arlsx) David Had Good Information About These Type Of Funds, I Think In His July Commentary. I Wish You Good Luck In Picking One You Will Be Happy With!!!!
  • VintageFreakVintageFreak
    Were you able to pick WBMIX at Fidelity NTF? And if so, what is minimum investment?
  • AndyJ
    edited September 2013
    NABAX is load-waived at Fido, NTF, $2.5k/$1k minimums, 2.33% E.R.

    Whitebox Tactical WBMRX is no-load, NTF, & reasonable minimum at Fido: $2.5k minimum, 1.61% E.R.

    Those are the two alt funds I've been thinking about, but haven't bit on either yet.

    For any load funds that have looked good in the past to anybody, it's really worth checking at Fido ... they're waiving loads on lots of A shares now, and A shares typically have halfway reasonable E.R.s too.
  • msf
    edited September 2013
    Reply to @AndyJ:

    WBMRX is the advisor class fund - same or lower ER than the retail shares, just NL. Also available NTF at Schwab, Vanguard, TDAmeritrade, etc. Note that that ER is either 1.93% (prospectus), 1.94% (Annual Report, Jan 2013), or 2.44 (most recent doc - SemiAnnual Report July 2013).

    The institutional shares (WMBIX) are the cheaper shares, costing 1.63% per prospectus (1.78% according to the annual report, 2.19% according to the latest semiannual report). M* says 1.61%. But according to Fidelity, you need at least $1M to get those.
  • AndyJ
    edited September 2013
    Reply to @msf: Right, the $1mm minimum is why I didn't mention WMBIX. Fido's apparently a little behind on the WBMRX (advisor share) E.R., which they show as 1.61 net.
  • VintageFreakVintageFreak
    edited September 2013
    Reply to @msf: Then how in heaven's name did ducrow invest in WBMIX? Doo not mean to insult ducrow by saying he cannot be a millionaire, but seems unlikely he has that much in the fund.
  • AndyJ
    Reply to @VintageFreak: 401k?
  • VintageFreakVintageFreak
    Reply to @AndyJ: Only ducrow can answer, but I doubt that. I actually want ducrow to tell us he is a millionaire. Dunno how many of us on MFO are:)
  • ducrow
    edited September 2013
    Reply to @VintageFreak: No!!! There Is a $75.00 Transaction Fee. I Believe They Say The Minimum Is One Million, But Trust Me I Did Not Spend One Million. I Spent In The Low 5 Figures. Some Fidelity Funds That say You Need a Million Will let You Buy Smaller Amounts If You Do It On Line.
  • ducrow
    edited September 2013
    Reply to @VintageFreak: You Are Correct I Am Not a Millionare!!!
  • VintageFreakVintageFreak
    Reply to @ducrow: You are also not answering my real question. How did you purchase WBMIX at Fido?
  • scott
    Reply to @VintageFreak: I think he did further up.
  • ducrow
    I Purchased The Institutional Shares In August Of 2012 After Learning About The Fund On This Web Site, I Believe It Was Scott Who First Mentioned This Fund, I Researched And Liked What I Learned And I Simply Placed My Order, When I Buy Funds Thru Fidelity I Always Test Them to See If I Can Buy The Institutional Shares, Most Of The Time They Dont Accept The Order, But Sometimes They Do. My Other Institutional Shares Are JNBSX - MFLDX - MTOIX. Last Week I Bought Shares Of SFGIX ( i tried the institutional shares first, but got rejected) It Does Not Cost Anything To Try To buy The Institutional, so i always try)
  • VintageFreakVintageFreak
    edited September 2013
    Great! Now you tell us:P

    However, how did you get past the transaction fee? In any case, when I look at SAI, I see this.

    The following table shows the dollar range each portfolio manager owns of the Fund(s) which they manage, as of October 31, 2012. As of October 31, 2012, neither the Whitebox Enhanced Convertible Fund nor the Whitebox Long Short Equity Fund had commenced operations, and did not have any shares outstanding.

    Portfolio Manager


    Fund
    Dollar Range of Amount
    Owned in Fund
    Andrew Redleaf

    Tactical Opportunities Fund None
    Robert Vogel

    Tactical Opportunities Fund None
    Jason Cross

    Tactical Opportunities Fund None

    One claims to have 35 years of experience running these kind of portfolios and allegedly has the necessary expertise and don't have confidence in your abilities to invest even $1 in your fund. Sorry, I'm not buying.
  • ducrow
    I Am Happy Owning WBMIX Regardless Of Managment Ownership - Last Year WBMIX Beat Its Category Average By 8.99% - And So Far In 2013 It Is Beating The Category Average By 3.99%
  • VintageFreakVintageFreak
    Reply to @ducrow: Sure. Since I don't plan on paying transaction fee for WBMIX, I'm going to hold off on WBMAX investment until I see SAI showing some manager investment. The last SAI is dated October 2012, so managers had like 6 months to invest in the fund since its inception but chose not to do so. I can give benefit of doubt they will have by now, but still need to see it.

    So instead of NLSAX and NABAX, I could do one of those and use WBMAX. I can wait for few weeks to see how things pan out with Whitebox SAI. Like to research Whitebox little more as well. Not much history there.
  • scott
    edited September 2013
    Reply to @ducrow: I'm not particularly concerned about management ownership in WBMRX, although I'd be rather curious to know if management has a significant investment in the company's various hedge funds and just not the mutual funds.
  • ducrow
    Reply to @scott I Would Suspect They Put Their Money In One Of The hedge Funds.
  • ducrow
    edited September 2013
    Reply to @VintageFreak: Please Post And Let Me Know What You Find Out, I Will Admit I Feel Better About Funds Where The Managers Invest Their Own Money, Buts Its Not a Deal Breaker.
  • InvestorInvestor
    Reply to @ducrow: I just noticed that you are capitalizing each word. Is there a particular reason to do so?
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