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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

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my plus side funds this week

MikeMMikeM
edited April 2013 in Fund Discussions
I only bought into this fund a couple weeks ago (sold some of my PRNEX to buy it), but RYOIX was my best performer in this down week. It's been sailing along in good weeks and bad. And I'm always pleasantly amazed how well MACSX navigates a steady return.

In a rocky week, these are the funds having positive returns in my portfolio this week:
RYOIX +2.6%
MACSX +.6%
GASFX +.3%
MAINX +.2%
PONDX +.2%
PGDPX +.1%
MWTRX +.1%

Not in my portfolio, but I have it on my watch list because of all the press it was getting on this board, WBMIX. I thought this fund was suppose to protect capital in rough times. That fund was down -4.4% for the week. I guess I would never buy into a fund where I don't understand where it fits.

Comments

  • Hiyield007Hiyield007
    edited April 2013
    I am always wary of funds (especially when they are underperformers) that get a lot of press on this board. It's the herd mentality in action. Maybe we should keep quiet about RYOIX and GASFX. Then again, good press, bad press, or no press, not much seems to stop PGDPX (aka PGDIX) or PONDX.
  • InvestorInvestor
    I look at most long funds that has some sort if shorting going on and find them not compelling enough to purchases.

    A long only manager has a difficult job already and a long short manager has even more difficult job. You have to be twice right and in particular right on shorts.

    Of the better looking ones I am weary of expense ratio. The only good one that I should probably have invested was BPLEX. But it closed too early in history and it had very high expenses.
  • beebee
    edited April 2013
    During the next few months I will be looking for funds that resist the dips of summer and have exhibited low volatility over longer time frames than a week. On my short list are TOLSX, GASFX, PONDX, WEAMX, MAPIX MACSX and PRHSX.

    Any of your favorites would be appreciated.
  • Art
    MAPTX +1.76 for the week.
  • MikeMMikeM
    Reply to @Hiyield007: On this board, PGDPX barley gets mentioned, but I think it is a wonderfully constructed fund for dividend income growth. I first heard of it early last year from KevinDow on this board. Sounded like a well diversified strategy so I took my 10% stake in PRPFX and moved it lock-stock and barrel to PGDPX. Permanent portfolio's better days just seemed to be in the past with large holdings in gold and treasuries. Principle Global Div. sounded like a better bet going forward. The RYOIX suggestion came from you, so thank you!!
  • MikeMMikeM
    Reply to @bee: Bee, fwiw, many of the funds you listed were actually negative over last week, per M*. For example, PRNHX, a fund on my watch list, was -2.63%. Yahoo confirms M* on a couple I checked. TOLSX was -0.54%. PRASX was up, but only 0.97%.
  • beebee
    edited April 2013
    Reply to @MikeM:

    Maybe I am retrieveing my info incorrectly. Here's what yahoofinance provided me for the timeframe of 4/15/2013 to 4/19)2013 with regard to PRNHX...it looks like +.036%. Maybe you are including Friday to Friday results? I considered the week Monday through Friday.
    image
  • AndyJ
    Reply to @bee: The chart looks like it covers 4 days ... Monday close/Tuesday open to Friday close.
  • MikeMMikeM
    Reply to @bee: You are starting at Monday's close, so you are only looking at Tuesday-Friday results. Monday was a pretty bad day which makes all those fund results worst.
  • beebee
    Reply to @MikeM:

    gotcha...ouch!
  • CharlesCharles
    edited May 2013
    Lots of good funds listed in this post, seems to me, but some can be very volatile.

    Below is tabulation with emphasis on lifetime downside and drawdown performance. I broke into older and younger bunches, so not direct comparison over same period, just trying to get feel for up versus down.

    First the older bunch, all living through 2008, sorted by Martin Ratio:

    image

    Next, younger bunch, from 2009, sorted by Sortino ratio (since we've basically not had much in way of drawdowns):

    image

    PONDX amazing of course. BPLEX, MAPIX, PRHSX, MACSX all have strong returns and good downside protection. Investor is right about extreme ER for Robeco's LS fund...high even for this already high category. I added WBLFX, which David profiled this month...a tale of two funds.

    See that PETDX was basically left for dead in 2009 with Max Drawdown MaxDD of -73%. I for one could probably not tolerate such a decline, even if it was "only" on paper. Ditto for MAPTX and PRNHX.

    Please beware of RYOIX. It has the highest Ulcer Index of any fund on list. Handle with care.

    As for the younger funds, MAINX continues to post impressive numbers. So does PGDIX. I added AQRIX, ARLSX, and COBYX to list.

    I let out a sigh thinking about WBMIX. Unless things pick-up next week, April numbers will not look so good. If I remember, Mr. Redleaf has been shorting high yield bonds and he remains bullish financials. More on Whitebox later.
  • Zolta
    Charles, Please define Martin ratio again. I can't find it in AAII, M* or Google.
    Thanks
  • MOZART325
    Charles- I think PGDIX and PGDPX are identical, except for 10 basis points extra expense for PGDPX. But their start dates are not the same which accounts for the big difference in Life performance. The difference since 10/10 should be very small.
  • MikeMMikeM
    Reply to @Charles: Thanks Charles - Great stuff!!
  • CharlesCharles
    edited April 2013
    Reply to @MOZART325: Thank you! You are absolutely correct. I've been down this road before so presumed the difference was load. (Can you believe funds still charge load?). Here's summary of the ERs on four share classes for Principal Global Div Inc:

    image

    I'd avoid share classes A and C, unless you can get waivers, like at Schwab. Updated post above. Very much appreciate the catch Mozart.
  • CharlesCharles
    edited April 2013
    Reply to @Zolta: Hi Zolta. Martin is a risk adjusted return like Sortino, but instead of using downside deviation DSDEV in denominator, it uses Ulcer Index UI. Here is previous post detailing definition and origin: A Look at Risk Adjusted Returns
  • ron
    edited April 2013
    Funds with positive MONTHLY return on my list. In order of % return. From 3.17 to 0.03

    SPLV
    MLPI
    VGHCX
    AQMIX
    POGRX
    MAPIX
    MACSX
    PGDIX
    AIMOX
    AMOMX
    VEIPX
    LSBRX
    FNMIX
    TIBIX
    TGBAX
    PGAIX
    FSMEX
    VWINX
    FSICX
    VBMFX
    PIMIX
    PTTRX
    VWELX
    PAUIX
    VWEHX
    PHIYX
    MWTRX
    FMIHX
    HABDX
    OSTIX
    EXDAX
    TGMNX
    VFINX
    VIPSX
    IVIQX
    VTINX
    PFIUX
    FEHIX
    PRWCX
    VIMSX
    SNXFX
    AQGNX
    LEXCX
    TGEIX
    VGSTX
    VTSAX
    AQRIX
    VFSTX
    JASBX
    MAPOX
    BERIX
    FPACX
  • teapot
    edited April 2013
    Charles:
    Any website offers Martin ratio for mutual funds? If it all come from your calculation, do you have figure for ABRYX/ABRZX? I would be interested to see which one is better between ABRYX and AQRIX. Thanks.
  • CharlesCharles
    edited May 2013
    Reply to @ron: Ron's April A-List. Fixed income funds first, sorted by downside deviation DSDEV, lowest to highest, blue if DSDEV and UI are less than 4%:

    image

    Asset allocation funds, blue if DSDEV and UI are less than 7% (most of list):

    image

    Equity funds, blue if DSDEV and UI are less than 10% (note SPLV, AQMIX, and MLPI are still young):

    image

    I too have many of these good funds on my notables list, including SPLV and LEXCX. LEXCX is an interesting fund I've been meaning to look into and post about.
  • CharlesCharles
    edited April 2013
    Reply to @teapot: Hi teapot. Based on risk adjusted returns, Invesco Balanced-Risk Allocation ABRYX has outperformed AQR's Dynamic Risk Parity AQRIX over lifetime and over same period (AQRIX is a bit younger). But neither has experienced a 2008-like event. Here's direct comparison:

    image

    Funny about Martin ratio. I believe it was first introduced at Fidelity, but I do not see it listed on their site currently. Will keep look out for other sources.
  • teapot
    edited April 2013
    Charles:
    Thanks for the information. I just noticed on those tables in your response to Ron, the fund with highest Martin ratio happened to be the one with highest Sharpe ratio and highest Sortino ratio. Is that a coincidence or some truth for most cases?
    Fixed Income: PFIUX
    Asset Allocaiton: PGDIX
    Equity:SPLV
  • ron
    Reply to @Charles: your amazing Charles and so well organized. I was once, but at age 79 and retired, have become very lazy after 50 years investing.
  • CharlesCharles
    edited April 2013
    Reply to @teapot: Looks like PFIUX and SPLV are driven by lack of volatility as evidenced by low STDEV, DSDEV, and UI, the denominators of Sharpe, Sortino, and Martin, respectively. But Investor will remind us that we can't spend risk-adjusted returns. So, when reviewing such numbers, I typically look for best absolute APRs with the highest downside and drawdown deviations I can tolerate, like illustrated in the post Four Funds for a Lifetime. PGDIX has just been a screamer with great down-side numbers, but it's really only been around for the bull market.
  • PRESSmUPPRESSmUP
    Charles...OK, I'll be the first to raise my hand. You've posted charts in this thread and on others, with data which looks to have some key metrics and historical data. I need some help with the column headings in regards to descriptions and basic definition. If you could point me in the right direction here, I would be most appreciative.

    Sorry if this query is overly simplistic.
  • CharlesCharles
    Reply to @PRESSmUP: Hi PRESSmUP. No problem. Will work up definitions list, but in mean time, please see previous post: A Look at Risk Adjusted Returns.
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