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Encouraged towards self-directed

edited February 14 in Other Investing
Can someone explain the dynamics of this to me?

My family has had the same brokerage accounts since at least the early 1960s.The company names have changed and changed again, but the offices have stayed the same. The first one I remember was Thompson-Mckinnon.

We have never traded a lot, and therefore didn't generate a whole bunch of commissions, but I was willing to pay a couple hundred dollars every now and then, both for the personal assistance and out of a sense of loyalty. Our longtime broker passed away a few years ago, but things still continued apace.

Recently, an order got put through a little bit wrong, and when I asked them to correct it, they did so, but were sure to let me know that it was costing them money, and I sensed some frustration on their part.

In the same conversation the broker told me they were advisors and people paid them for advice, but since I made my own decisions, I should move all of the accounts to the self-directed system. So that's what I'm doing (although it is taking forever to happen).

In a recent conversation, the broker said that I was holding full service accounts, but that I was "unwilling to pay them".

That kind of hurts my feelings. We have been good clients for over half of a century. They've made at least some money consistently over that time, and they would continue, but as I said, we're not big traders, and the commissions would continue to be few and far between. btw, by middle class standards, the accounts are fairly large.

Essentially, they don't want me anymore. This makes no sense to me, but That's what we're going with.

Does this make any sense to you? Does this fit a recent pattern in the industry? I guess things change, but this seems weird to me.

Comments

  • Maybe it's time to move to another brokerage? Some Brokerages will do most of the work for you & possible give you a bonus $$$
  • Derf said:

    Maybe it's time to move to another brokerage? Some Brokerages will do most of the work for you & possible give you a bonus $$$

    +1 if my only remaining full service broker pulled that on me or gave me that attitude (and like you, I don't trade it very often) my account would be moved that week. As it is, I only have a few more years to stay with that firm, but after that (or my guy retires) I have no qualms transferring out ... paying ~$200 per occasional trade nauseates me no end but for family reasons, I keep the account there.

    The only way to make a point with a fullservice broker (or any broker) is to move your account and hit the broker by reducing his AUM 'book' --- I'm sure they'll contact you to ask why you're leaving and perhaps try to sweeten an offer to get you to stay. lol


  • No way would I put up with that. "Adios!" would be my quick decision.
  • The problem right now is they have me in limbo-land. I signed the papers to transfer to self directed accounts over a month ago, but no one can tell me anything about it or why the big delay. If I try to switch to Schwab or fidelity now, it could make things really messy.
  • edited February 14
    Account transfers are initiated at the target firms. So, fill out asset transfer paperwork at Fido or Schwab and let them handle this. Be clear in your instructions if you want in-kind transfers where applicable.
    There may be large tax liability if positions are sold. You could just do a partial transfer of things in-kind and deal with the rest later.
  • I would wait until the account has been changed to self directed before switching to another brokerage. Otherwise, they may charge you a full service fee..
  • @dryflower,

    There are plenty of brokerages that will be happy to have you as a client. I would not stay with them if they paid you 2% per year of your account value as a bonus to stay. But that is me.

    From my vantage point, it seems to me they have already moved on in their relationship with you. I do not ask "why?" I only want to know where I stand in a relationship so I can conduct myself optimally.

    You did not say which brokerage you are with. Are they in the ACAT system where you can transfer assets electronically?

    Going forward, all your communication with them should be in writing only - that is all they understand. I would keep it cold.

    Good luck.

  • I agree with all of the comments that have been made here. Thanks.

    As it happens the accounts (all 4 of them) moved to self-directed within the last few hours.

    fyi, it is Wells Fargo Advisors. they have always been very friendly and helpful for years -- until this. The ironic thing is that the #1 reason I still had accounts there was out of a sense of loyalty.

    Anyway, I guess I'm feeling liberated. End of an era.
  • Congrats.

    You should be able to move positions by electronic transfer. Before you submit the request at the receiving firm, make sure each of the position you want to move can be held at the receiving firm.

    Also, I would move positions by partial (not full) account transfer, though that might take more time.

    Finally, make sure you are getting the best possible bonus and platform for you needs.

    Personally, I like to have two brokerages (and not one). The two based on my experience I would recommend are Schwab and Fidelity. Depending on your investment needs Firstrade, IBKR, Robinhood and others may also work.
  • dryflower said:

    I agree with all of the comments that have been made here. Thanks.

    As it happens the accounts (all 4 of them) moved to self-directed within the last few hours.

    fyi, it is Wells Fargo Advisors. they have always been very friendly and helpful for years -- until this. The ironic thing is that the #1 reason I still had accounts there was out of a sense of loyalty.

    Anyway, I guess I'm feeling liberated. End of an era.

    So you moved to WellsTrade?
  • edited February 15
    "That kind of hurts my feelings. We have been good clients for over half of a century."

    Doing business is not about feelings, it's about getting what you want for the best price. Show them who is in control and transfer your money to Schwab or Fidelity and pay no fees, but initiate it from Schwab or Fidelity; they should cover all the fees.

    Wells Fargo had many violations, see (https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/well-fargo-fines)
  • edited February 15
    You are getting great advices here. Please consider moving you accounts to other reputable brokerages, and Wells Fargo is not a good firm to work with.

    My parents were in your position many years ago. I helped them to move to Fidelity brokerage. Basically we walked into a Fidelity office and had the asset transferred in-kind to minimize capital gain (as @yogibb stated above). It was quite a straightforward process and you need to have the latest statement ready. We (and several siblings) then managed their account ourselves and saved them from the hefty fees previously paid. Looking back, Fidelity did all the heavy lifting in asset
  • beebee
    edited February 15
    With a little work on your part going forward (self managing) you can eliminate the advisor's 1% annual fee.

    Going forward think of the 1% savings this way,

    As a retiree, this 1% annual fee equates to a 25% savings of your 4% Safe Withdrawal Rate... that's significant!
  • Full service and discount Brokerage Firms have Service Models for different clients. They are in the business of creating wealth and if you make money, they make money etc. The firm has the right to do what they feel is best for business and we have the right to transact/interract how we want. Their has to be a middle of the road, right?

    You have the choice to stay or leave. Find a Firm that fits what you like to do...trade infrequently? Self-directed? Manage your own assets? Have a few different Brokers?

    For most Firms, there is more to their business than just having an investment account. Retirement Planning, Income Solutions, Cash Management, Long Term Care, Charitable Giving, Estate Planning...so, you see, the change that is happening is the firms will allow you to stay but you're going to be in a specific 'model' that doesn't need any of these services. For the most part, the Firms are just changing to adapt to the competition.
  • yup. Business is not in the business of doing good, even for loyal, long-time customers.


  • So you moved to WellsTrade?

    If that's what they call it. My logon is still the same, which is wellsfargoadvisors.com

    I don't see the name Wells Trade anywhere on the site.

  • bee said:

    With a little work on your part going forward (self managing) you can eliminate the advisor's 1% annual fee.

    Going forward think of the 1% savings this way,

    As a retiree, this 1% annual fee equates to a 25% savings of your 4% Safe Withdrawal Rate... that's significant!

    They weren't hitting me with a 1% fee. otherwise I would have been gone long ago.
  • BaluBalu said:

    Congrats.

    You should be able to move positions by electronic transfer. Before you submit the request at the receiving firm, make sure each of the position you want to move can be held at the receiving firm.

    Also, I would move positions by partial (not full) account transfer, though that might take more time.

    Finally, make sure you are getting the best possible bonus and platform for you needs.


    Personally, I like to have two brokerages (and not one). The two based on my experience I would recommend are Schwab and Fidelity. Depending on your investment needs Firstrade, IBKR, Robinhood and others may also work.

    What is the rationale behind not making a full account transfer all at once?

  • 2 of the accounts in question are in my and my wife's name and 2 are my mother's accounts. Those 2 have a firm specific POA document attached to them. I am wary whether the POA would transfer to a new account, and my mother is 103 and not truly competent to sign a new one. So I'll probably just leave those there.
  • @dryflower, things that don't transfer in-kind would have to sold and then the cash transferred. There may be large tax liabilities in taxable a/c. So, it's important to check ahead from the target firm what products are supported on its platform.

    Also, if not instructed properly, the originating firm may find it simpler to sell all and transfer cash.
  • I don't see the name Wells Trade anywhere on the site.

    As services have become more commoditized, brokerages seem to be blending their low cost and full service brokerage identities. Perhaps in an effort to upsell.

    Merrill Edge still exists as a name, but it is now presented as a service of "Merrill" and you can login at ml.com.

    Wells Trade seems to have done something similar, presenting accounts as "Wells Fargo Advisors WellsTrade brokerage accounts" on http://wellstrade.com

    Vanguard presents its "ways to invest" (products and services) on a page comparing different levels of advice you can pay for. Scroll waaay down to the bottom, and there's a button for another page if you really, really "want to plan on your own".
  • dryflower said:

    BaluBalu said:

    Congrats.

    You should be able to move positions by electronic transfer. Before you submit the request at the receiving firm, make sure each of the position you want to move can be held at the receiving firm.

    Also, I would move positions by partial (not full) account transfer, though that might take more time.

    Finally, make sure you are getting the best possible bonus and platform for you needs.


    Personally, I like to have two brokerages (and not one). The two based on my experience I would recommend are Schwab and Fidelity. Depending on your investment needs Firstrade, IBKR, Robinhood and others may also work.

    What is the rationale behind not making a full account transfer all at once?

    In addition to comments from Yogi and Balu, I would add that you may have been able to buy into institutional, and other funds, through Wells they may not be available, or may be treated differently whereever you move.

    When I transferred my IRA from Vanguard to Fido I was able to submit a list in advance for them to consider. Other brokerages may offer the same feature.

    Fido will trade DODGX, at 100 bucks a pop, they simply won't trade VSMIX and DRGVX, for example, which feature in our accounts at Wells. So my taxable account will likely remain at Wells, as will my wife's IRA and taxable, aside from TIAA assets that will eventually be annuitized anyway..

    We have never had any problems with Wells. When we started out it was Crocker Bank, which was bought by Midland Bank, which was bought by Wells, then merged into Northwest Bank where we had banked as college students. Who knows what would result to the banking industry were we to move. :)
  • I have the highest yielding money market I know of at Wells. It's WMPXX, and while it's now down to 4.4%, I have not found anything better. Neither Fidelity or Schwab has that one.

    I suspect that maybe having a money market that has a bit lower yield is one of Schwab's profit centers.
  • There are frictions at Schwab I got used but may irritate you. I would read the Schwab threads and then make a list of things important for you to speak with a Schwab branch manager before deciding on Schwab or for that matter any brokerage.
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