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Luigi Mangioni's Manifesto

I was curious about the manifesto and did a Google search to find a copy. Interestingly, I could not find it but I found a bunch of articles from so called reputable publishers telling me their opinion about the manifesto without giving me a copy of the manifesto.

I would appreciate if anyone can share here a copy of the manifesto.

P.S.: I came across a clip where Mayor Adam called Luigi Mangioni a terrorist. Seems like Mayor Adam is happy to do the bidding of the ruling class now that he made it there.

Comments

  • According to this source:
    In the manifesto, Mangione wrote:

    To the Feds, I’ll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn’t working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but [h]as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.
  • Because of their complete dedication to invasion of privacy I do not use any service or product of Google if at all possible. The only exception is Google Earth, as I am not aware of any substitute for that service.

    The above information was retrieved by the DuckDuckGo search engine on the Firefox browser, using Mac OS12.7.4 ("Monterey").
  • edited December 2024
    Thanks, Joe.

    Well articulated and to the point. Interestingly, all the well known publishers issuing opinion pieces have scathing commentary about the manifesto and Mangione, without giving us a copy of the manifesto. It makes me wonder how systemic the problem laid out is that media business came out guns blazing against while the ordinary man is sympathetic to Mangione. This probably proves his point that it is not an issue of awareness at this point.

    I can never read these publishers again with the open mind with which I was reading them. Was I always gullible or the world has changed on me!?
  • @BaluBalu

    Noam Chomsky, "The Common Good:"
    The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.


  • edited January 9
    I am not eligible for Medicare. I was debating whether I should get Medicare Advantage or Medicare supplemental insurance when eligible. My Dad tells me that Medicare Advantage patients are more likely to be denied essential treatment (in favor of lower cost treatment) than patients of Medicare Supplemental insurance. (His suggestion is spend the money (do not go to MA) to have better control of my healthcare needs. Can you guys weigh in?
  • Crash said:

    @BaluBalu

    Noam Chomsky, "The Common Good:"
    The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.

    Brilliant. How true. It feels like we are all just farm animals in the hands of the ruling class.

    P.S.: For me, any thread I start is always shown as read, not allowing me to know if there are new posts. So, if I do not respond / acknowledge a post in a thread I start, it is likely I am not aware of the post.

  • BaluBalu said:

    Crash said:

    @BaluBalu

    Noam Chomsky, "The Common Good:"
    The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.

    Brilliant. How true. It feels like we are all just farm animals in the hands of the ruling class.

    P.S.: For me, any thread I start is always shown as read, not allowing me to know if there are new posts. So, if I do not respond / acknowledge a post in a thread I start, it is likely I am not aware of the post.

    Gotcha. I recall you mentioning that glitch before. Gotta be a way to adjust something.
  • @BaluBalu- It sounds as if you may need to change your Notification Preferences:

    • At the upper left of any Discussion Page there is a large blue "Start New Discussion" icon/box.
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    • That will take you to your personal profile page.
    • At the upper right of the personal profile page is an "Edit Profile" icon/box .
    • Clicking on that takes you to a page where you can change your preferences.
    • At the upper left click on "Notification Preferences".
    • The "Notify me when people comment on my discussions" box should be checked.
  • BaluBalu said:

    I am not eligible for Medicare. I was debating whether I should get Medicare Advantage or Medicare supplemental insurance when eligible. My Dad tells me that Medicare Advantage patients are more likely to be denied essential treatment (in favor of lower cost treatment) than patients of Medicare Supplemental insurance. (His suggestion is spend the money (do not go to MA) to have better control of my healthcare needs. Can you guys weigh in?

    Why not eligible? Or are you just not 65 yet?
    Medicare Advantage covers you with a PRIVATE insurance plan of your choice. Everything I've heard tells me that M.A. is suitable only if you're still very healthy, and don't need doctors, tests, surgeons. With M.A., you're dealing, still, with the same sort of limitations and filters and networks and wait-times; all the junk you had to put up with before you became eligible for Medicare.

    Which is why I chose traditional Medicare, with a supplemental Medicare plan. My "Medigap" Plan happens to be with Massachusetts BC/BS. I have the "F" plan, which has already been sunset-ed. No one else can get in, now. (Though MA BC/BS calls it by their own stupid name: "bronze.") Even my DEDUCTIBLES are covered. The next-best plan might be "G." As in, "goodness gracious!"

    So, once I meet my annual threshold, Trad. Medicare kicks in. As long as Trad. Medicare covers something, then my Medigap plan will also cover the remaining 20%. (I did not start out with the "Cadillac" plan I have now. After surgery, I was left withy a big bill which prompted me to switch to F (bronze.) I've certainly been utilizing it to good advantage. Every year, my monthly premium rises a bit. They like to play word-games, calling it a gradually "diminishing discount." ...And don't forget "D" coverage for DRUGS.
    https://www.medicare.gov/health-drug-plans/medigap/basics/compare-plan-benefits

    Any bill I see these days is a mistake, or else the hospital or provider simply bills me before my secondary plan gets around to actually paying them. I fret no more over medical expenses, though what I'm paying for coverage is extortion: $264/month in 2025.
  • Thanks, Joe.

    Thanks, Crash. I likely will buy supplemental (medigap). I currently have the cheapest plan available in the market and pay $850 per month (I have to check how much they charged for 2025). A few years to Medicare. If insurance and care are not available when one needs it, it does not matter how healthy one is before hand. Let us see where our HC system is in a few years.
  • @Crash $264 /month ? Total of supplement & Medicare ? My ad plan just went to $235/ month plus deduction from SS. $235 does cover some glasses & dental.
  • Thanks, @Derf. I was not including the amount auto-stolen from SS to pay monthly Trad. Medicare premium. What is "ad plan?" You mean, additional medigap plan?
  • I'm guessing state to state has much to do with which plans are better for your money. I'm in western NY. It's not a huge topic of conversation between friends, but it is usually a topic during enrollment periods. I don't know anyone using supplemental medi-gap coverage in my region, but I may be ignorant to that. Everyone I know has a Medicare Advantage plan.

    It is important to know the distinction between PPO and HMO Advantage plans when buying one of these plans. PPO gives much greater flexibility for out of network (and out of state) hospital and specialist care. No referrals needed. My new plan with Excellus Blue Cross PPO plan costs me $34/month in 2025. For the past 4 years prior, I had a zero cost plan from Aetna with all the same coverage. With most of these plans, all routine dental visits are paid for and $1500 for specialized dentistry, extractions, crowns, root canals, ect...

    FWIW, at least in my area, there are many groups or organizations that help seniors with these decisions. In fact, they do all the work of finding the best policy "for you" given your medical needs. There is no cost for the assistance and in fact, they do all the work of applying for coverage for you at no cost to you. Maybe this is common in all areas, I don't know.

  • +1.

    Did any one experience the Med Ad PPO plans to have smaller nextworks than Med Sup plans? I am trying to figure out the economics for the insurance companies offering the former plans to be able to offer plans with comparable service to end customers. May be Medicare pays them enough. Do we know of insurance companies that offer both plans in the same State?

    Someone like @msf or @yogibearbull may know the answers.
  • As a general rule, with Medicare Advantage PPO plans you can go to any provider who takes Medicare. Same as with Medicare Supplemental (Medigap) plans.

    However, while out of network providers will still be covered with the PPO. your copay/coinsurance will be higher than for an in-network provider.

    Did you mean to compare Medicare Advantage PPOs with Medicare Advantage HMOs? A company's network can vary depending upon the particular plan, let alone the type. I've seen Humana offer three different HMOs with three different networks in the same county, let alone a PPO that may have had yet a different network.

    Insurers offer plans on a county-by-county basis, not a statewide basis. I'm sure if you check with the majors (e.g. UnitedHealthcare, CVS (Aetna), Humana, and the Blues (owned by different insurers in different states), you'll find that they often offer HMOs, PPOs, Medigap, and Part D plans all in the same county.
  • edited January 10
    I was trying to compare the extent of the network of Medicare Advantage PPO ("MAP") with that of the Medigap offered by the same company in the same location. May be a better way to ask the question is, do MAP allow similar care / treatment access as Medigap plans do?

    When my time comes, these are the two plans I would compare and evaluate. (I know Medicare Advantage PPO is not as widely available as Medigap.) The value of insurance is known only when one has to use it. I do not want to assume my current health needs would be the same forever and that can change with little notice. Is there a plan where my insurance company does not get to dictate what treatment I would get? I feel like I am caught between the payors (insurance companies) and the variable pricing of the providers. To some extent, I use insurance for their negotiated pricing.
  • edited January 11
    msf said:
    However, while out of network providers will still be covered with the PPO. your copay/coinsurance will be higher than for an in-network provider.
    That is a good point @msf. For seniors doing a lot of traveling or spending months out of state in warmer climates, you would have to consider that in your decision.

    A couple examples in my policy comparing in and out of network:

    - specialist $45 vs $50
    - lab work $0 vs 30%
    - x-rays $50 vs $60
    - outpatient hospital $375 vs 30%
    - hospital care $450/day for days 1-5, vs $450/day for days 1-28
    - urgent care $45 vs $45
    - emergency room $110 vs $110

    IMO, looking at this cost list, you want to have a dollar value associated to a benefit. A % is an added gamble since that cost is not defined and could run pretty high. These policies all have a max out-of-pocket, so you do know the worst that can happen financially (my policy o-o-p max is $8900 in netw vs $11700 out of netw).

    I typically think of higher insurance premiums as a gamble that the insurance company will win 9 times out of 10. I'm pretty healthy, so I tend to gamble knowing I have enough coverage that I won't suffer large financial consequences if I do encounter a health problem.
  • edited January 11
    Thanks, Mike. That is very helpful. So, may be I should not bother so much about size of network of a PPO plan - of course, I should read the terms (my costs) of out of network care of the plan available to me ( yours looks very good to me).

    Do you still need pre- authorization for non-routine treatment when you go out of network? If so, I guess the insurance company can still say, NO.

    How do insurance companies control their costs when the insured goes out of network? The providers probably can bill at list price.

    I currently buy insurance on the exchange. So, for each plan, everyone living in my zip code, my gender and my age will pay the same premium - individual prior history has no relevance. Is that how it works for Advantage and Medigap plans as well or each person’s premium is unique?
  • I currently buy insurance on the exchange. So, for each plan, everyone living in my zip code, my gender and my age will pay the same premium - individual prior history has no relevance

    Unless they smoke.
    The Affordable Care Act allows insurers to charge up to 50% higher premiums to tobacco users, making tobacco use the only behavioral factor that can be used to rate premiums in the nongroup insurance market.
    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7704470/

    Also, premiums cannot be based on gender. And to be pedantic, zip codes can cross county lines. So two people of the same age could be charged different premiums. if they lived on different sides of a county line.
    https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/protecting-people-with-pre-existing-conditions-isnt-as-easy-as-it-seems/
    https://www.city-data.com/forum/new-york/462568-zip-two-counties.html

    How do insurance companies control their costs when the insured goes out of network? The providers probably can bill at list price.

    That's the key. With individual (ACA) PPO insurance, the OON provider can charge anything it wants. The insurance policy will say something about UCR (usual, customary, and reasonable) charges. The insurer uses this amount, if less than the amount billed, for calculating benefits paid.

    For example, suppose you have a procedure that is billed at $250 while the insurer says the UCR is $100. If you have a $50 OON copay, then the the insurer will pay $50 ($100 UCR - $50 copay), and you'll be left with the bill for the remaining $200.

    But with Medicare, providers either accept the Medicare fee schedule amount (they're called "participating providers"), or they accept the Medicare amount plus 15% ("non-participating providers"). That extra 15% is called an "excess charge".
    Participating, non-participating, and opt-out providers

    So Medicare is different. The Medicare provider (even if OON) cannot bill an arbitrary amount. And with the low payments that Medicare makes, even a 30% co-insurance requirement is not astronomical except for extensive or unusual care.

    The 15% excess charge that non-participating providers may bill isn't covered by Medicare Advantage plans. It also isn't covered by most Medicare Supplemental Insurance Plans. Only Plans F and G cover it.
    https://www.medicare.gov/health-drug-plans/medigap/basics/compare-plan-benefits

    Do you still need pre- authorization for non-routine treatment when you go out of network? If so, I guess the insurance company can still say, NO.

    There are two different questions here. Do you need pre-authorization for any OON care? No you don't. Can the insurance company deny payment for that care? Yes, if it is not medically necessary. Which is why you'll want to seek authorization before you have a treatment that is subsequently denied.
    Q: ... can a PPO plan apply pre-authorization requirements as a condition for payment or for enrollee access to out-of-network providers?

    A: MA PPOs may ... conduct pre-authorization activities for the following purposes:

    1. To determine medical necessity. ... MA PPOs are not allowed to require their
    beneficiaries to secure authorization prior to receiving out-of-network services for the purpose of denying services
    . [Emphasis in original]

    2. To determine if a service ... is covered ...

    3. To determine if a non-network provider is qualified to provide the plan-covered
    services.
    https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Health-Plans/HealthPlansGenInfo/Downloads/ppofinal.pdf
  • edited January 11
    Thanks.

    At the risk of gross generalization, it seems I do not need to be overly concerned about the size of the MA PPO plan network as long as I can find Dr that accepts Medicare.

    My Dad’s supplemental PPO allows him to go to which ever primary care or specialist Dr without pre approval / referral. Do MA PPO plans offer the same privilege to the insured? I know that is what a PPO plan means but I do not want to assume there are no exceptions.

    My current insurance co doesn’t offer Medicare plans.

    Do Medicare plans’ premiums differ based on a person’ pre-existing conditions?
  • @BaluBalu, Medicare Advantage PPO plans allow you to go to any primary care or specialist without needing a referral from a primary care physician, so long as the physician is in the plans network. Medicare Advantage plans premiums do not differ based on pre-existing conditions. Medigap plans premiums also do not differ based on pre-existing conditions during the initial enrollment period.
  • I had a POS plan and had to go to in network doctors to be covered. I changed to a PPO plan so I can go to any doctor without referral but out of network doctors are not covered like in network doctors. I changed because there was a chance my doctor was going to stop accepting my MA plan and I still wanted to use them. They resolved their contract so I didn't really have to change plans but did anyway so I don't have to worry about it in the future.
  • Thanks @mona and @gman57.

    I was told that once you are on a MA plan for a couple of years, you can’t switch to a Supplemental plan, unless MA plans are no longer offered in your area. It is good to know you can switch between MA HMO and PPO plans.
  • edited January 12
    You can switch back to Medigap plans from MA plans during open enrollment but you may have to go through their medical underwriting test. I.E. you could be denied. I've never heard of anyone going back so I don't really know if it's that difficult. Has anyone here ever gone back to Medigap plans from their MA plan? They're greedy IMHO, I would think unless you have a major medical condition you can switch back.
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