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“We Were Wrong” - Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley

edited July 2023 in Other Investing
Last year’s plunge in the S&P 500 (SPX) made uber bear Mike Wilson the most celebrated stock forecaster on Wall Street. It’s a role he has failed to reprise in 2023. 

The chief US equity strategist for Morgan Stanley on Monday conceded that he stuck with the pessimism for too long amid a rebound that has left equity benchmarks within spitting distance of erasing last year’s decline. His forecast for the S&P 500 remains 3,900, a level that has been left behind in the index’s 19% jump to around 4,560.

“We were wrong,” Wilson wrote in a note to clients Monday. “2023 has been a story of higher valuations than we expected amid falling inflation and cost cutting.” His team has recently shifted the focus to June 2024, for which the price target is set at 4,200, about 8% below its current level.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/were-wrong-morgan-stanley-wilson-191650465.html


Suppose I’d be upset had I paid Mr. Wilson one dime for his prediction. But I didn’t. He gave it out free of charge, Sometimes you gets what you pays for.

Comments

  • edited July 2023
    In brokerage industry, it's OK to be bullish but wrong.

    However, it's tough to be bearish but wrong.

    Initially, Mike Wilson was praised for his bold bearish call. But he stayed bearish too long. Of course, when the last bears throw in the towel, the market may turn south anyway.
  • edited July 2023
    There are other bears besides Mike Wilson. It is a matter of timing if and when the recession arrives. For now the strong labor market indicates the market is more resilent than anticipated.
  • Meanwhile hussy (hussman). Continues to make very rational sense and notates overvaluation and very risky markets but continues to suffer drawdowns....some day, some day....he might actually make his shareholders money....
  • Meanwhile hussy (hussman). Continues to make very rational sense and notates overvaluation and very risky markets but continues to suffer drawdowns....some day, some day....he might actually make his shareholders money....

    “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. “ – Mark Twain
  • edited July 2023

    Meanwhile hussy (hussman). Continues to make very rational sense and notates overvaluation and very risky markets but continues to suffer drawdowns....some day, some day....he might actually make his shareholders money ....

    Yes, we should all hope to live that long …

    This whole idea of making predictions seems ridiculous. I don’t. Most here don’t. If you do it, good luck. I recently read some interesting well laid-out macro analysis from Calimos. Dodge and Cox also publishes some good analytical pieces in their annual & semiannual reports. T. Rowe puts out a ton of the stuff. Sure, they require more labor to read through. But I’d read any of those before jumping on Mike Wilson’s bandwagon - or that of any other big name from the investment banks. These places are not your friend unless you have a heap of money with them. Maybe one day the SEC will look into all this ”free advice” eminating from the likes of M/S, Goldman, Wells Fargo, etc. They may argue it isn’t intended for retail investors and that it doesn’t constitute “advice.” Yep - I just saw Santa Clause.
  • Meanwhile hussy (hussman). Continues to make very rational sense and notates overvaluation and very risky markets but continues to suffer drawdowns....some day, some day....he might actually make his shareholders money....

    could he be the highest paid writer in history? because compounding money aint his thing.
  • He is still at 3900 for end of 2023.
  • I have a special place in my heart for Wilson because he made so many bad predictions, see (link).
  • Hussy has that great chart in this commentary showing a spectacular returns using his 1998 proprietary indicator of "favorable indicators" to go all in on SP500 and cash if unfavorable.

    https://www.hussmanfunds.com/wp-content/uploads/comment/mc230724fb.png

    image

    Works like a dream. But why doesn't he use it running his mutual funds?

    I have never understood how a guy with such data at his disposal, such well throughout discussions and analysis can do so poorly managing mutual funds.
  • @fd1000

    How much do you think the tea leaf reader meaning Wilson pulls down in salary annually? Where else can you be so wrong and get paid to keep doing it?
  • @fd1000

    How much do you think the tea leaf reader meaning Wilson pulls down in salary annually? Where else can you be so wrong and get paid to keep doing it?

    There are several others who do this.
    The weatherman=markets predictor

  • Cramer the other day, without having to surrender your email, or whatever they want for his words of wisdom:
    Cramer underscored the idea that investors must be patient and ask themselves what exactly they’re swinging at before they go to bat. He also said investors must determine whether their preferred stock is overbought, and, if so, “forget about it.” But if a company is not overbought, Cramer urged investors to wait for a swoon after a company’s earnings report, or a market-wide dip.

    “Very few concepts are as difficult to accept as the one that says, ‘you missed it,’” Cramer said. “We never want to believe we missed anything. Unless you’re willing to settle for these sectors that have very little gain so far — the market’s have-nots, so to speak — you must accept that the buying opportunity is long over.”

    Cramer said he knows waiting is hard, but it’s his bottom line.

    “You got to wait,” he said. “And if these don’t ever come in? Then, that’s all she wrote.”
    He was talking about The Seven of course. Which makes me wonder which is Steve McQueen or Yul Brynner? Cause the rest of those guys came to a bad end.

    In the meantime, give me some of that "have-not" stuff.
  • edited July 2023
    Morgan Stanley can not risk continuing to employ someone who becomes (or is) a permanent bear. It will be good to find out the instances when Mike Wilson may have made the right market calls. It is acceptable to me if he has been right >50% of the time. He has been in his current position since 2012.

    Per Google search, here is a timeline of Mike Wilson's career at Morgan Stanley:

    1989-1995: Investment banker
    1995-2000: Head of Institutional Equity Sales
    2000-2005: Head of Content Distribution for North American Equities
    2005-2012: CIO of Wealth Management
    2012-Present: Chief U.S. Equity Strategist and Chief Investment Officer

    P.S.: I do not hold Mike or anybody else responsible for my outcomes because at the end of the day, my actions are always dictated by my own mental inclinations.
  • their talent is being able to Spin a yarn and fill time up on bubblevision.
  • Meanwhile hussy (hussman). Continues to make very rational sense and notates overvaluation and very risky markets but continues to suffer drawdowns....some day, some day....he might actually make his shareholders money....

    “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. “ – Mark Twain
    IIRC that was the opening quote to 'The Big Short' wasn't it? :)

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