If true, I think this needs to be completely disclosed. Simple fact of the matter is if this information is NOT true, then the author opens himself to serious ridicule and libel. Needless to say that hasn't stopped anyone from writing lies, lies and more lies. However given that an Amana Fund has been profiled on Fund Alarm and now the Mutual Fund Observer, I find it prudent to post this information.
The irony is that the Amana Group claims to invest in a Socially Responsible way according to Islamic Principles. While at the same time if the money they are making is being used to fund despicable causes, then Socially Responsible or not, I don't see how any of us on this board would want to invest in the Amana Funds.
I am excerpting a part of what is there on the link below and folks can decide if they want to continue to read on. At the same time, Mr. Snowball thinks this is inappropriate, he may remove it from the board.
....Sheikh DeLorenzo was a top executive (and continues to serve as a key consultant for) a large investment fund called the Amana Trust, which is interesting on several levels. For one, the Amana Trust was founded by a Muslim Brotherhood figure named Yaqub Mirza, who is the most important U.S.-based operative in the SAAR Network of terrorist financiers.
Mr. Mirza was the incorporator or manager of more than a dozen SAAR Network hedge funds, charities, and financial entities, including Mar-Jac Investments, Mena Investments, Sterling Management Group, and Reston Investments. In addition, Mr. Mirza ran the SAAR Network’s centerpiece, an outfit called the SAAR Foundation, which advertised itself as a charity, but was allegedly an important vehicle for laundering money raised in the United States for jihadi groups....http://www.deepcapture.com/the-miscreants-global-bust-out-chapter-two-the-money-weapon-and-a-jihad-bigger-than-bin-laden/Best.
Comments
Just trying to be a little reasonable, I think there must be easier ways to mask the financing of terror than by using a highly rated, visible, and somewhat regulated open-end mutual fund as a cover.
Anyone on the board actually invest in Amana Trust? What do you know about it? How'd you decide?
gfb
Anyway, I'm not taking a stand as to whether or not Amana is a front for AQ or Muslim Brotherhood money. Rather, simply trying to point out that from all I read Kaiser & Co. did establish a product in accord with specific client needs (grounded in their religious principles) that was one of the first of its kind.
FWIW.
When the term "socially responsible" was coined for the mutual fund industry, I guess one was only looking at gambling, alcohol and whatever else, but terrorism never figured in that list.
It should be simple to prove who owns Saturna and who owns Amana. There is no point in saying deepcapture.com is a dubious source. If we think like that, fox news is a dubious source. I don't see how ANYONE can make claims like the ones that are being made by deepcapture.com and get away with it. It's not like it is another website like www.theonion.com. If you read the article again, they frequently link to other sites as sources of information. deepcapture.com is certainly not a quack job.
entry on his current employment. Don't know if its reliable but the entry
indicates that he is no longer associated with Amana. His current
organization that is with is pretty shady.
If there is a connection between Amana and AQ/MB, that would be deeply unfortunate.
For the record, I am not a Muslim, but have looked at the Amana Developing/Emerging markets fund because it is a conservative way to play that space, and because Kaiser is not afraid to hold cash. I held off on a purchase for a couple of reasons. It'd be a shame to think that I'd be put on a terrorist watch list just because I bought a particular financial product.
I'm simply pointing out - and i will stress only after someone ELSE raised the issue of socially responsible investing - that the TERM definition is quite fickle depending on ones perspective.
I don't need any religious book or political dogma to tell me funding terrorism is bad. Just like I know it is wrong to sleep with my neighbors wife regardless of whether I have read the bible. That's what I think makes me "human". One shouldn't be making excuses for one's behavior and take responsibility. Unless you are saying we will all be running around raping and killing women if there was no law against it? I have no issues with religion, so please don't bring this into it.
Maybe someone who owns Amana / Sextant funds on this board can point Nicolas Kaiser to this article and have him draw his own conclusions. People can be duped easily. There is no reason to believe Nicolas Kaiser is a bad man. After all, how many of us go beyond the manager to decide whether to invest in a fund or not ? (actually I do, and hence do not invest with Royce because it is owned by Legg Mason, but I digress).
A competent manager can return good results for his investors. The point is, will he want to do so if he is convinced the money he is earning his employer is being used for questionable purposes. What happens if Nicolas Kaiser earns M* Manager of Decade award in the future? Will his fund assets not multiply 3 fold? Will this not increase the profits of the companies that run his funds exponentially given the fixed costs of running a fund?
Again, just as I don't invest in single country funds, I don't want to invest in funds from companies who do insider trading, who fund terrorist causes, who do money laundering, or whatever else does not agree with my sensibilities. This has jack to do with being "socially responsible". Will any of us buy a fund knowing that the manager or owner of the fund company was engaged in dishonest acts? Or are we going to say "I don't care, because I'm only in it to make money"? To that I say there are enough alternatives out there to make money. "Socially Responsible Investing" can be used both ways, to invest in something or not to invest in something. Bullshit shouldnt' enter the equation here.
Madoff was doing what he was under everyone's nose. SEC got complaints about this from PEOPLE. Other PEOPLE in SEC did nothing. This is a matter of public record now.
I'm now almost regretting posting this link. I thought folks on this board would appreciate getting ALL the facts about a fund beyond the prospectus when deciding to invest in a fund.
When buying a fund, we all do our due diligence. For instance I will not buy a fund in which manager is not heavily invested. Similarly, you can look at the article, do your own research if you wish, and draw appropriate conclusions as to whether it is still the right investment for you.
I did not not post the article to get people out of Amana funds. I just thought people who own or want to own the funds will benefit from getting all information there is about a fund in making a decision. After all, I think this is what this board is about. Getting more information so that we can all make prudent decisions.
If you are looking for a good Large Value Fund, we might be going off topic.
Best.
Sorry to have missed the bulk of the discussion. I've got a query out to the folks at Saturna, asking them to look through the discussion and help us understand the facts. I'll follow-up more extensively once I'm back from England and have more consistent accesss.
All the best, pip pip and cheerio!
David
Personally, I could care less if my fund invests in tobacco, alcohol (I like my beer), financials... if that is where the opportunities to make money are. Financials have not gone up as much as other sectors to date. They will eventually and Amana may lag.
For the record, I own Yacktman Focus YAFFX and Parnassus Eq Inc PRBLX as my large caps. I'd recommend both. So happens that PRBLX is also labeled a socially conscious fund. I own it because of it's long term record and capital protection aspects - same for Yacktman.
Keep on doing what you do.
gfb
I've written to the folks at Saturna, who in turn read our discussion and the article. Their general tendency is to ignore conspiracy theorists (Mr. Mitchell qualifies) but they take the FA/MFO board seriously and are talking about how to respond.
Like them, I read the original piece posted by Vintage Freak. In general, I'd noted
1. the author (Mark Mitchell) has had some problems, in the past, keeping his facts straight -- there are a fair number of articles pointing to instances of "sloppy journalism"
2. the site (Deep Capture) appears to be a vehicle for expressing the idiosyncratic worldview of Patrick Bryne, president of Overstock.com. As far as I can tell, the argument is that all bad things (the Great Depression and the Madoff scandal among them) are attributable to the Russian mafia, hedge funds, and/or shady international financiers with ties to terror.
3, there's no evidence. The references to Amana and Saturna make allegations without evidence. Well, the whole thing does: it's a long, breathless tale of darkness without anything that looks like, well, proof, evidence or documentation.
4. there's no argument. There's a bunch of claims which, if true, represent a sort of guilt by association. For example, there's the assertion that the Islamic Society of North America controls Saturna. The sum of the argument appears to be the claim that a guy alleged to have a tie with the Society also had a tie with Saturna. There's no evidence that the guy controlled Saturna, that he controlled (or was controlled by) the ISNA, that the ISNA has ever said or done squat in relation to Saturna, that Saturna has ever said or done squat in relation to the ISNA or that any action by Saturna has ever profited anyone but their shareholders.
I teach about propaganda for a living (indeed, am currently in Oxford to track down the origins of a particular WW1atrocity propaganda report). My preliminary reading of the Deep Capture blog places it pretty much in the mainstream of modern cyber-propaganda. It, like much propaganda, seems to substitute breathless prose driving toward a predetermined conclusion for anything like serious reporting. Folks are certainly entitled to invest their hard-earned funds wherever suits their needs, That said, this blog does not seem to provide any reason to avoid either the Amana or Sextant funds.
If folks are interested, I'd be willing to make a more formal analysis in my June commentary. I feel free to drop me a note. If I learn more, I'll pass it along.
David
It is unfortunate for me since I was all set to buy AMDWX but can't pull the trigger any more.
I'm not invested in an Amana or Sextant fund, but not for "politically correct" reasons. These funds simply don't fit my investment objectives.
PopTart, you are showing wisdom beyond your years. Good going, kid!
I want Amana/Saturna to sue deepcapture.com. Or I expect deepcapture.com to provide proof of their allegations. Meanwhile I will sleep easy by not investing in AMDWX by investing somewhere else.