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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

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In times like this,

is it not comforting to have a position in
VWINX Wellsley Income
gain less in upturns which is an acceptable tradeoff to lose less in downturns
and SLEEP BETTER at night in the latter.
«1

Comments

  • edited January 21
    Respectfully I disagree. Hindsight is always 20:20 of course but here are some stats on VWINX and a few others over the last 3 year period. I have not looked at the 5 and 10Y stats but pretty sure that other funds have done better than VWINX in terms of higher APR, lower max DD and higher Sortino ratio

    - VWINX: Max DD=8.6, APR=11, Sortino=2.33
    - SFHYX: Max DD=3.1, APR=17.5, Sortino=6.29
    - JHEQX: Max DD=5.1, APR=13.6, Sortino=3.37
    - MAFIX: Max DD=7.5, APR=20.3, Sortino=3.38
  • @Staycalm thanks for sharing. This is the first I’ve seen of SFHYX. Do you have any more info that you can provide on this fund?
  • SFHYX has been referred to in other threads. Here is the website -- https://www.hundredfoldselect.com/ Below has been lifted from the site

    ----
    Managing alternative strategies, seeking steady returns and controlling risk
    The Hundredfold Select Alternative Fund is actively managed to anticipate and respond to trends in differing types of fixed income and equity securities. It seeks steady returns, principal protection and low correlation to the overall markets while providing daily liquidity.

    Portfolio construction begins with a basket of high-yield fixed income securities managed for steady returns and limited volatility. These securities are complemented with alternative strategies including a variety of short-term equity trading strategies, investments in long/short, absolute, or merger strategies, and the ability to move into cash depending on market conditions.

    Objective
    The Hundredfold Select Alternative Fund is an alternative mutual fund investment that seeks a moderate total rate of return (income plus capital appreciation) annually.
    ----

    Classified as a Long/Short fund by Lipper so same family as JHEQX. Very actively managed and positions can change quite dramatically MoM. ER is high but the risk adjusted returns have been great and the manager(Doudera) is a veteran(in the industry since 1973). Doudera also manages SVARX(income fund) which also has great metrics
  • SFHYX and SVARX are transaction fee funds, to the best of my knowledge. VWINX is ntf at Vanguard and E-Trade. If the transaction fees were $10, and I could schedule purchases at any time, I would gladly invest in these funds !
  • edited January 22
    Yea transaction fees definitely a bummer but imo(this is strictly my $0.02, everyone needs to determine what works best for personal situation there isn't a one size fits all) not investing in a stronger fund due to transaction fees is a bit of tail wagging the dog.

    To be clear, I strictly invested in NTF, no load funds for a long time and had strict criteria on max ER but my views on this have evolved. While I have never invested in a load fund, I would for the right one. Over say a 10 year period, transaction fees would be a rounding error between a VWINX and SFHYX(again may not be applicable to everybody).

    Personally if the fee was a blocker for me I would look at purchasing at lower cadence. Say every 3,6,9,etc.. months.

    For a great fund that I intend to hold long term I would also look into opening an account directly with the sponsor. I did this for a Grandeur Peak fund but right now that bet is not going too well for me. Getting hammered hard on my international funds.
  • Interesting fund is SFHYX but after so many years it’s assets under management are minuscule. Both Marketwatch and CNBC report AUM of 9.7 m. M* shows 278m. You would think more people would have discovered it. Perhaps the fees and turnover are turnoffs?
  • edited January 22
    This fund has 2 share classes, total AUM per MFO is 278M. The high fee is no doubt a factor towards the small AUM. The inception to date stats for this fund are very good too

    Inception: 200410
    Life APR=7.2, SP500 APR=11
    Max DD=16.9, SP500 Max DD=50.9
    Recovery=21 mos, SP500 Recovery=53 mos
    Sortino=2.08, SP500 Sortino=1.01
  • very interesting fund. Thanks for sharing this data. Will do some further research into this one. Will also take a look at JP Morgan hedged equity
  • edited January 22
    Bobpa said:

    is it not comforting to have a position in
    VWINX Wellsley Income
    gain less in upturns which is an acceptable tradeoff to lose less in downturns
    and SLEEP BETTER at night in the latter.

    I could not agree more! While I like (and hold) JHEQX/JHQAX it is down 4% YTD versus 1.76% VWINX (and that's with a horrible bond market!) . As to the others, well, I hold a slice of SVARX and consider it and SFHYX the type of fund that could easily be good until it isn't (See REMIX). I could never put serious money into such funds, but I can and do with VWINX/VWIAX and sleep like a baby.
  • edited January 22
    JHEQX /JHQAX uses options spreads - it quarterly buys 5% OTM SP500 puts, sells 20% OTM SP500 puts, so the protection kicks in when SP500 is down between 5-20%. There is no protection for the first 5% down, or for more than 20% down. It is an options overlay fund, not a long-short fund.
  • edited January 22
    yogi

    MFO classifies both JHEQX and SFHYX as Alt/LS funds but to your point, underlying strategies are entirely different.
  • @stayCalm, by name, JHEQX /JHQAX sounded like long-short fund but when I checked its portfolio at M*, it showed only longs, no shorts; M* classifies it under Options-Trading. Then, I dug deeper and found that it has 5-20 put options-overlay strategy. MFO classification may not be very refined.
  • SFHYX looks interesting - but expenses are a whopping 2.9%
    The cheaper share class (1.75% expenses) is HFSYX but (at least at Schwab, Fidelity and TDAmeritrade) the minimum investment is $1m., even in an IRA.
  • Sorry - cheaper class is HFSAX
  • edited January 22
    yogi
    I thinks options overlay is an appropriate descriptor for this fund because as you pointed out that is exactly what it is -- an options based hedge on an equity baseline. MFO gets data from Lipper

    SFHYX otoh unlike JHEQX can go short, use leverage and has a baseline of fixed income securities/funds on which other alt strategies are overlaid
  • edited January 22
    The 5% OTM puts in JHQAX series should not be taken as a protection after 5% slide in SPY, as is evidenced by current SPY and JHQAX slide. It depends on the timing of the fund purchase and what the market has done since when the puts were purchased. If one is interested in the fund, it is best to study it to understand the best time to buy and which one of the three in the series to buy. This und has been discussed previously at MFO and so, a search of MFO could also be useful.
  • For the current time, most seem to recommend value / reopen economy funds. It would be interesting to find out Value style OEFs / ETFs that exclude or underweight financials.
  • @BaluBalu : I do remember those discussions. Are you implying this fund, JHQAX, isn't a buy & hold fund ?
    Enjoying the ride, Derf
  • edited January 23
    Derf said:

    @BaluBalu : I do remember those discussions. Are you implying this fund, JHQAX, isn't a buy & hold fund ?
    Enjoying the ride, Derf

    My comment does not apply to those that already own the fund. I was not trying to say anything negative about the fund and no need to read into my comment.

  • @BaluBalu : No harm no foul !
  • edited April 13
    MAFIX was recently discussed in the "What are you buying . . ." thread. I figured this post belongs more here. Q1 information is now available at the fund site -

    https://www.abbeycapital.com/multi-asset-fund/

    Also, I have noticed some members have sold JHQAX in Q1 (possibly to increase equity exposure, to reallocate some to the other funds in the JPM Hedge Equity series, etc.). With Q1 behind us and the market down (or choppy / treacherous if you prefer) for a full quarter for the first time in a few years, I figured a re-discussion of JHQEX could be timely.

    Both these funds were mentioned in this thread.
  • edited April 14
    stayCalm said:

    Respectfully I disagree. Hindsight is always 20:20 of course but here are some stats on VWINX and a few others over the last 3 year period. I have not looked at the 5 and 10Y stats but pretty sure that other funds have done better than VWINX in terms of higher APR, lower max DD and higher Sortino ratio

    - VWINX: Max DD=8.6, APR=11, Sortino=2.33
    - SFHYX: Max DD=3.1, APR=17.5, Sortino=6.29
    - JHEQX: Max DD=5.1, APR=13.6, Sortino=3.37
    - MAFIX: Max DD=7.5, APR=20.3, Sortino=3.38

    Hi @stayClam, Are those monthly stats, rather than daily stats? Cause i see for the March 2020 draw down, using daily stats, JHEQX and VWINX had the worse DD (-19%) while SFHYX was the best. MAFIX was second best (-9%).

    During the 2018 Q4 DD, MAFIX (-13%), JHEQX (-7%), SFHYX & VWINX (-5%).

    Seems like SFHYX protected better over several DDs. My comparison of these funds may not be fair to the managers as these funds provide different strategies - may be SFHYX and MAFIX have comparable strategies.

    Edit: upon re-reading, I noticed the underlined word (fair) was missing and is now added.

  • edited April 14
    SFHYX is managed by Ralph Doudera. He also manages SVARX and SAPEX. All great for last few years, except a very unpleasant atypical nearly 20% drop YTD in SAPEX. I've been looking at SFHYX almost since inception but fear it has all the earmarks of great till it isn't. I do hold SVARX as it seems the game there is to time and hedge multisector bond funds, not likely to lead to disaster, but still would not commit serious money. As I've said elsewhere, VWINX=sleep like a baby.
  • Three times both stocks and bonds lost in two consecutive quarters (see link below). You can make your bets on whether 2022 is going to be another such year.

    https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/images/Viewpoints/AT/chart-of-the-week-apr-15-2022.png

    I can see S&P 500 going negative for Q2 but is that likely without also keeping AGG down?
  • edited April 16
    I only track daily volatility of VWINX. On that single metric it is quite impressive. Didn’t fare quite as well as usual Thursday, losing .59%. Still, that was less than half the 1.22% loss in the S&P.

    I certainly understand the inclination on the part of some older and more conservative investors to go “all in” with VWINX. I once considered doing the same with PRSIX, but for assorted reasons decided not to. Looking at how PRSIX has been hammered by its bond holdings this year, I’m glad I didn’t.
  • I like text, rather than charts, mostly. But she is always on top of things. Thanks for that.
  • "BaluBalu"


    "when it comes to the relationship between economic data and the stock market, better or worse matters more than good or bad"

    That's something to keep in mind for the stock market...as well as politics.
  • edited April 20
    PRESSmUP said:

    "BaluBalu"


    "when it comes to the relationship between economic data and the stock market, better or worse matters more than good or bad"

    That's something to keep in mind for the stock market...as well as politics.

    I am curious, what prompted you to address the politics comment to me? I do not discuss politics (not even with family) and do not read posts laced with political views.

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