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Holding non-Vanguard funds at Vanguard or Schwab

I have maintained a R/O IRA at Vanguard, because in the past, occasionally, there was a fund that was only available at Vanguard.

PVCMX is the most recent example, but it is available at Schwab now. I expect Schwab's mutual funds will increase with the TD acquisition.

Does anyone find other mutual funds ( other than Vanguard Admiral funds) that are available only at Vanguard, and not Schwab or Fidelity?

Comments

  • I am with both TDA and Vanguard for many years. Assuming TDA NTF funds will also be available at Charles Schwab, it is better than Vanguard as far as funds availability, especially NTF funds. For example, Artisan funds are TF funds at Vanguard, whereas they are NTF at TDA.

    Of course, I hear the argument TF does not make much difference if you have a large portfolio and do not make changes to your asset allocation very frequently.
  • Janus funds are also tf at Vanguard. IMHO, I can't recall any funds available at Vanguard that weren't available at Fidelity or Schwab. Fido,Schwab, TDA and E-Trade seem to offer more funds than Vanguard;the main difference is tf vs ntf status: HMEAX is ntf at Schwab and Vanguard but tf at Fidelity, while BBBMX is ntf at Schwab but tf at Vanguard and Fido,etc
  • Aside from Vanguard funds, there are funds from other fund families where Vanguard sells a cheaper share class than you can get at Fidelity/Schwab/TDA. For example, Columbia Thermostat is easy to buy anywhere, but Vanguard sells the cheaper COTZX class I shares. They're even NTF with a low ($2K/$3K) min.

    (About 1/3 of the funds returned from a M* search I ran were Columbia funds, so if you care about getting a cheaper share class of Vanguard or Columbia funds, you might want to seriously consider VBS.)

    Then there are other funds that Vanguard sells but retail investors can't get (any share class) at the other brokerages. For example, GEQIX and TSYNX/TSYIX

    M* lists of brokers:
    COTZX: http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/purchase-info.html?t=COTZX
    GEQIX: http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/purchase-info.html?t=GEQIX
    TSYNX: http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/purchase-info.html?t=TSYNX
    TSYIX: http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/purchase-info.html?t=TSYIX

    M*'s brokerage data is not the most reliable part of its database, so I checked each of the sample funds above.

    I ran the following screen on M*. It returned 258 share classes, at least some of which were wrong (e.g. CGM funds are no longer available at Vanguard. The screen returned all three surviving CGM funds.)

    (Brokerage Availability = Vanguard TF
    or Brokerage Availability = Vanguard NTF)
    and (Brokerage Availability not = Schwab All (Retail, Instl, Retirement))
    and (Brokerage Availability not = Schwab OneSource & NTF (No Load & No Transaction Fee))
    and (Brokerage Availability not = Fidelity Retail FundsNetwork)
    and (Brokerage Availability not = Fidelity Retail FundsNetwork-NTF)
    and (Minimum Initial Purchase <= 50000)
  • carew388 said:

    HMEAX is ntf at Schwab and Vanguard but tf at Fidelity, while BBBMX is ntf at Schwab but tf at Vanguard and Fido,etc

    Schwab lists HMEAX as open only to existing shareholders. Fidelity sells it with a 5.5% load. Vanguard sells it NTF. At least according to their respective web pages.

    While HOVLX is ntf at Vanguard but tf at Schwab and Fido, etc.
    Vanguard: https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/overview/0856?FundIntExt=EXT
    Schwab: https://www.schwab.com/research/mutual-funds/quotes/fees/hovlx
    Fidelity: https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/summary/437769201?type=o-NavBar

    This is not to say that Schwab, and likely Fidelity, don't offer more funds NTF than does Vanguard. What really matters is which particular funds you want.

  • +1 I had forgotten that HMEAX was ntf at E-Trade and I transferred my shares to Schwab when I closed my E-Trade account.
  • Vanguard has a good deal on availability of Pimco's cheapest institutional shares (I as opposed to I-3). That was the only semi-regret I had when I moved out of Vanguard several years back.
  • I find that Vanguard offers more institutional class shares of funds for significantly smaller entry investment. Usually you need $1 million. Vanguard also helped me get into an institutional class of a non-vanguard fund.
  • It used to be that Vanguard provided access to institutional class shares of several funds at lower mins than at other brokerages. That's still true for Columbia funds. But other things have changed.

    Vanguard offers Pimco institutional class shares (e.g. PDIIX) with a $25K min. This used to be better than other brokerages. Schwab used to require $100K. But now Schwab requires only $2.5K ($1K for IRAs).

    Consider TIBIX. It has a $2.5M min,. That's what Fidelity requires in taxable accounts. But Fidelity sells it to IRA investors with a $2500 min. Schwab requires that same $2500 in a taxable account and just $1K in an IRA. Vanguard's mins are $100K (taxable and IRA).

    For several years Fidelity has been making institutional shares of many funds available for low mins in IRAs. That's not documented - you have to ask or set up test trades to find the funds. More recently, Schwab lowered mins on many funds including some institutional class shares.

    For the most part, the trend at brokerages is for more choices at lower cost/mins. Beyond that, it's hard to generalize about one brokerage vs. another, as they're always in a state of flux.
  • The brokerage business is getting very competitive in their products (something the investors can see). The intangible customer service is harder to quantify until you open an account for awhile. This pandemic revealed the weakness of certain brokerages.
  • Thank you all for the comments and data. I had forgotten you can run a screen at M* for availability, although I too question the validity of the data. Still it beats using the old link that lists purchase information

    http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/purchase-info.html?t=PTIAX&region=usa&culture=en-US
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