Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Any Canadian's here? What is the possibility of Alberta or Saskatchewan becoming independent or seeking to join the US? What would happen to Canada if they did leave?
What is the possibility of the Northeast becoming independent and joining Canada? I know a significant number of Northeasterners who are sick of subsidizing red states with their tax dollars while simultaneously being called liberal freeloaders.
Unlike that island, Albertans wouldn't be waiting for the Government to take care of them. Furthermore, this ability and willingness to stand on their own is why they may leave Canada. This is also why they would be a perfect fit, in my opinion, for the US. May I hear from any Canadians?
Here it goes from a transplanted Canadian who goes home to visit yearly. EH! Most Canadians tend to be wary of the US because of its influence on its culture and financial health. Canadians tend to think that their society is on a higher level because of less crime, greater empathy with each other , great but reasonable educational opportunities and a Medicare for all system that very few Canadians would give up for the American one. Recently in the news was a story about a Canadian couple who drove their 86 year or so old relative back to Canada from Florida because they did not wish to deal with and pay for an American hospital visit or admission. The relative was found to be dead at the border crossing. The financial system is also better monitored and controlled. There was no real estate debacle in Canada back in 2008-09 that started a financial meltdown here. Would Albertans or any Canadian choose the USA because of a better financial deal or stay with a more progressive Canada? You decide. EH!!
@fundly The majority of my/our knowledge of Canadian culture in real time arrived, in the early 1990's with our ready access to CBC by geographical location. Initially this was via a 40' tv tower with a very high quality antenna pointed toward Windsor. Back in this time period, if we were not at home on a Friday evening; we would be sure to set the VCR to record; This Hour has 22 Minutes and Royal Canadian Air Farce. During our modern time period.....being television broadcasting and the masses; one still finds a great deal of pure understanding of political and social movements through the eyes of comedy and the comedians. These 2 programs helped sort some of the mess. We'll always treasure the Canadian view of what the heck is going on "down south". We also followed Rick Mercer's program periodically. We still find time for CBC evening news, especially when things are really crazy in the U.S.; for another viewpoint. Lastly, during the late 90's and early 2000's, I had discovered a Canadian/American chat board on the internet. My oh, My.......many interesting discussions there, that were mostly polite; and informative about just how much was misunderstood about each country and the regular folks. Fortunately, I was raised not too far from the Ontario border; and so became fluent in Canadian , including the wonderful intonations.
Thank you for triggering the memory cells. Regards, Catch
I've had the pleasure of work excuses to travel to Victoria, Vancouver, smaller towns and villages on Vancouver Is., Whitehorse, Toronto, Ottawa, and Peterborough (Ontario), and have spent a chunk of free time in B.C. and the Yukon. It's always been a treat.
Among many memorable experiences, a small one was hanging out with a half-dozen locals at a YT gov't campground, during which time I was asked about my U.S. health insurance. One woman in the group was so shocked when I explained that she fell off the log she was sitting on.
So, are you saying that no 'self respecting Canadian' could ever see themselves joining the USA? If no, is there any logic to Diane Francis' proposal regarding what she refers to as an imperative need to merge the two?
Your previous offhanded comment staged the hypothetical natural disaster that may hit. You've now revealed that hypothetical island as being Puerto Rico. I would agree that god forbid a disaster hit either Alberta or the aforementioned Puerto Rico. But, what would happen if it did? Puerto Rico is a corrupt welfare state and even though the people living within it are hard working, they can't help the corrupt nature of those governing it (much like Mexico!). Now compare to Alberta, which is a very wealthy self sufficient and well run province. They don't need much assistance from the government and yes I did clearly say that, Man.
Alberta's current government WAS their socialist version, though not labelled as such. It's the New Democratic Party. But only a few days ago: "The Premier of Alberta is the first minister for the Canadian province of Alberta. He or she is the province's head of government. The current premier is Rachel Notley. However, Notley and the New Democratic Party were defeated in the provincial election on April 16, 2019." There is a period of transition, but the New Dems no longer are in charge. They are lame ducks, in US parlance. Out there, they are busy literally defacing and destroying the landscape--- the face of the Province--- at the Oil Sands sites, around Ft. McMurray. While literally eating itself, someone has decided it would be a good idea to convince tourists to come and gaze at the "new normal." http://www.fortmcmurraytourism.com/explore-wood-buffalo/explore-oil-sands
Anyhow, no Canadian will ever be found who is stoopid enough to want to tack themselves onto the declining, failing former democracy (republican form) which is the "United" States of America.
@MFO Members: As one American, I thank the citizens of Gander, Newfoundland for their kindness and generosity on 9/11/2001. "Operation Yellow Ribbon" Regards, Ted
Seriously, what the heck are you talking about? Puerto Rico is the exact opposite of a welfare state, but is an example of adventure capitalism at its worst. Companies got huge tax breaks to come there and provided little tax revenue to run the country, then deserted it as soon as the breaks went away. It was the Wild West of capitalism and it’s the reason it’s in such a mess right now. https://google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/puerto-rico-debt-2017-10
To all, this post had nothing to do with Puerto Rico. It was a serious attempt to learn more about what's going on with our neighbors to the north. However, with most things here there are others that have to make it about politics, so lets do so. The situation to the north seems to be about Liberals to the east (go figure) telling prosperous citizens within Alberta to pay their 'fair share' (whatever that means) while at the same time limiting their ability to create wealth (ironically upon which the entire nation depends). I'm sure there's more going on than that between the more Liberal bilingual-French speaking people of the east and the more conservative (albeit further to the left than US Republicans) English speaking Albertans - but, that is why I posted to begin with.
But this does serve as another example of what happens when Liberals attempt to impose their endlessly growing, unrealistic, unsustainable desires on citizenry without any regard for those being drained of wealth. Ah yes, the entitlement mentality of Liberals.
Puerto Rico is screwed, but the situation in Alberta and Canada will be interesting. As I've said to the Liberals here before, those with means can live without you. Perhaps Alberta is about to give you another lesson in what happens when you push too far. Sort of like the mass exodus of Americans from California and New York destined for Texas and Florida. Action - reaction.
The problem is all inside your head, Justin said to me The answer is easy if you take it logically I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free There must be fifty ways to leave Canada Justin said it's really not my habit to intrude For the more I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued So I repeat myself, at the risk of being cruel There must be fifty ways to leave Canada, fifty ways to Canada Just slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan, Stan Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free Just slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan, Stan Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free Justin said it grieves me so to see you in such pain I wish there was something I could do to make you smile again I said, I appreciate that, then would you please explain about the fifty ways Justin said, why don't we both just sleep on it tonight And I believe, in the morning you'll begin to see the light And then Justin spoke to us and I realized he probably was right There must be fifty ways to leave Canada, fifty ways to Canada Just slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan, Stan Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free
Self-righteous Right-ist prigs. Next time you need to go somewhere, try bringing your own freeway with you.... Just lately, Connecticut approved putting tolls on all their Interstates. It will take a year or two to implement. Why? Shortfall. Why the shortfall? The tax code is too generous toward those with means. And lots of us who live near the CT border will have to take a bit more time getting to the malls and theater in Enfield. Because we will be using the old US Route 5, instead of I-91. It was in the 1980s that CT REMOVED the tolls, if I recall correctly. I was far away, in those days.
Crash is spot on. I'm not in favor of a penalty tax on the rich. Terrible policy. However, I would like for them to pay their fair share - and the corporations. It's not the tax rate, it's the right-offs and deductions that results in a zero tax bill for so many.
How about a 15% tax on all income above $1M with no deductions. Just pay 15% and be done. Below $1M, you can do what you wish.
Let's keep the discussion on-point. Alberta provides a great amount of wealth to the rest of Canada in the form of taxation and what they refer to as equalization payments. And, as far as I can tell, they don't mind doing so. Their gripe is the inability to further develop the industry which is the source of that wealth, fossil fuels. Presently, their primary customer is the USA and the US is paying less than an optimal rate for the product since there's no other competition. To resolve that issue, they want a pipeline that runs to the west coast and this is where BC comes into the equation. Further complicating the matter is Justin Trudeau's apparent disdain for fossil fuels. BC apparently hasn't been helpful either. So, from Alberta's perspective, they can't sell their product for a fair price and they're receiving no assistance from their fellow countrymen. But, Albertan's have leverage over Canada since it is legal to leave and they are quite wealthy. The US, in my opinion, would gladly entertain the thought of either a partnership or annexation of Alberta. I would further state the proposition may be attractive to both Democrats and Republicans, albeit for different reasons. However, Alberta doesn't have any leverage over the US, unless BC cooperates. No pipeline going west and they're still stuck with dealing with the USA. And, the clock is ticking. Electric vehicles are becoming more prevalent with each passing year. I would imagine the Albertans want to cash-in and use those proceeds to diversify their economy, before fossil fuels become irrelevant. I further believe they would rather stay within Canada, but may be forced to do the unthinkable.
Alberta appears to be looking to profit by dumping some environmental costs onto BC and/or much of the US. Can you say Keystone? It doesn't matter whether Alberta is part of Canada or the US, the problems with tar sands won't change based on its nationality. BTW, Trudeau has backed the BC pipeline, albeit with reservations.
Alberta has never been one for using its wealth in natural resources to plan for the future or to diversify its economy. (It set up the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust in 1976, but hasn't funded it with natural resource revenues for decades, and has used it as a piggy bank.) Why expect anything different now? https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/what-happened-to-albertas-cash-stash/article24191018/
That Globe and Mail piece (like many) compares Alberta's inability to save some revenue from its natural wealth with what Norway and Alaska do. Alberta has not planned for boom and bust. Hence the province has been running big deficits for several years: $8B (cdn) in 2017-2018 and a projected $7.9B (cdn) deficit in 2019-2020. To put that in perspective, Illinois is projecting a deficit of $3.2B (USD).
Similar on the individual level: "Canadian households lead the world in debt. ... Albertans, in fact, lead the nation in consumer debt. Plus, many people in [Alberta] are living paycheque to paycheque. Nearly half of Albertans say they are $200 away from not being able to pay their bills."
Comments
Regards,
Ted
The majority of my/our knowledge of Canadian culture in real time arrived, in the early 1990's with our ready access to CBC by geographical location. Initially this was via a 40' tv tower with a very high quality antenna pointed toward Windsor.
Back in this time period, if we were not at home on a Friday evening; we would be sure to set the VCR to record; This Hour has 22 Minutes and Royal Canadian Air Farce.
During our modern time period.....being television broadcasting and the masses; one still finds a great deal of pure understanding of political and social movements through the eyes of comedy and the comedians. These 2 programs helped sort some of the mess.
We'll always treasure the Canadian view of what the heck is going on "down south".
We also followed Rick Mercer's program periodically.
We still find time for CBC evening news, especially when things are really crazy in the U.S.; for another viewpoint.
Lastly, during the late 90's and early 2000's, I had discovered a Canadian/American chat board on the internet. My oh, My.......many interesting discussions there, that were mostly polite; and informative about just how much was misunderstood about each country and the regular folks.
Fortunately, I was raised not too far from the Ontario border; and so became fluent in Canadian
Thank you for triggering the memory cells.
Regards,
Catch
Regards. Fundly
Among many memorable experiences, a small one was hanging out with a half-dozen locals at a YT gov't campground, during which time I was asked about my U.S. health insurance. One woman in the group was so shocked when I explained that she fell off the log she was sitting on.
Cheers --
>> Unlike that island, Albertans wouldn't be waiting for the Government to take care of them.
Got it.
"The Premier of Alberta is the first minister for the Canadian province of Alberta. He or she is the province's head of government. The current premier is Rachel Notley. However, Notley and the New Democratic Party were defeated in the provincial election on April 16, 2019." There is a period of transition, but the New Dems no longer are in charge. They are lame ducks, in US parlance. Out there, they are busy literally defacing and destroying the landscape--- the face of the Province--- at the Oil Sands sites, around Ft. McMurray. While literally eating itself, someone has decided it would be a good idea to convince tourists to come and gaze at the "new normal."
http://www.fortmcmurraytourism.com/explore-wood-buffalo/explore-oil-sands
Anyhow, no Canadian will ever be found who is stoopid enough to want to tack themselves onto the declining, failing former democracy (republican form) which is the "United" States of America.
Regards,
Ted
Regards- OJ
https://google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/puerto-rico-debt-2017-10
But this does serve as another example of what happens when Liberals attempt to impose their endlessly growing, unrealistic, unsustainable desires on citizenry without any regard for those being drained of wealth. Ah yes, the entitlement mentality of Liberals.
Puerto Rico is screwed, but the situation in Alberta and Canada will be interesting. As I've said to the Liberals here before, those with means can live without you. Perhaps Alberta is about to give you another lesson in what happens when you push too far. Sort of like the mass exodus of Americans from California and New York destined for Texas and Florida. Action - reaction.
The problem is all inside your head, Justin said to me
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to leave Canada
Justin said it's really not my habit to intrude
For the more I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
So I repeat myself, at the risk of being cruel
There must be fifty ways to leave Canada, fifty ways to Canada
Just slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan, Stan
Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free
Just slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan, Stan
Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free
Justin said it grieves me so to see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do to make you smile again
I said, I appreciate that, then would you please explain about the fifty ways
Justin said, why don't we both just sleep on it tonight
And I believe, in the morning you'll begin to see the light
And then Justin spoke to us and I realized he probably was right
There must be fifty ways to leave Canada, fifty ways to Canada
Just slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan, Stan
Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free
Crash is spot on. I'm not in favor of a penalty tax on the rich. Terrible policy. However, I would like for them to pay their fair share - and the corporations. It's not the tax rate, it's the right-offs and deductions that results in a zero tax bill for so many.
How about a 15% tax on all income above $1M with no deductions. Just pay 15% and be done. Below $1M, you can do what you wish.
and so it goes,
peace,
rono
Alberta has never been one for using its wealth in natural resources to plan for the future or to diversify its economy. (It set up the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust in 1976, but hasn't funded it with natural resource revenues for decades, and has used it as a piggy bank.) Why expect anything different now?
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/what-happened-to-albertas-cash-stash/article24191018/
That Globe and Mail piece (like many) compares Alberta's inability to save some revenue from its natural wealth with what Norway and Alaska do. Alberta has not planned for boom and bust. Hence the province has been running big deficits for several years: $8B (cdn) in 2017-2018 and a projected $7.9B (cdn) deficit in 2019-2020. To put that in perspective, Illinois is projecting a deficit of $3.2B (USD).
Similar on the individual level: "Canadian households lead the world in debt. ... Albertans, in fact, lead the nation in consumer debt. Plus, many people in [Alberta] are living paycheque to paycheque. Nearly half of Albertans say they are $200 away from not being able to pay their bills."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/road-ahead-brooks-alberta-debt-deficit-politics-1.4574465