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NWGAX or NVOAX - Help me decide !!!

One is GLOBAL and the other is "global", and they are both closing, and they are available no-load at Schwab, and I've had my eyes on these for a long time.

Looking to transition out of PGVFX which I had held "forever" and into one of the above. Was all set on NWGAX until I noticed high international allocation in excess of 30% in NVOAX.

So besides substantial yet lower international allocation of NVOAX, is there any fundamental difference between how these two funds are managed by the same manager - David Iben? He is even closing his ING funds as Mr. Snowball just told us this week so I'm thinking the manager is not of the kind that is only interested in making money.

Any insights deeply appreciated.

Comments

  • Hi VF,

    You really can't go wrong with either fund. If your portfolio needs more domestic exposure, then I would go with NVOAX, and NWGAX would be my choice to boost foreign exposure. Since there is significant overlap of holdings, I would build a significant position in one but not both funds.

    Also, I would prefer the lower cost institutional classes of these funds, NVORX and NWGRX, which are available for reasonable minimums at Thinkorswim and Scottrade. Disclosure: we own a 10% position in NWGRX and a foothold in NVORX.

    Kevin
  • NWGRX and NVORX are TF fees at Scottrade. In any event $100K minimum is not my cup of tea. Methinks NVOAX at Schwab. It is not as if NVOAX is restricted in its ability to cap foreign exposure. It just doesn't seem to have a mandate to stay substantially in international as NWGAX does.

    Going with NVOAX. Thinking this complements my CVLOX holding better than NWGAX.

    Thanks.
  • NWGRX and NVORX are available at Scottrade for minimums of $3K and $1K in taxable and retirement accounts, respectively, with $17 fees for purchases and sales. These funds are available in Thinkorswim retirement accounts for $1K minimums with no TF (3 free trades/month for now), according to relatively recent reports from M* forum members.

    NVORX/NVOAX is indeed restricted on its exposure to foreign equities: it may have up to 35% of assets invested in non-U.S. equities and up to 10% of assets in EM equities.

    I agree with you that NVOAX complements CVLOX better than NWGAX.

    Kevin
  • Thank you very much Kevin.
  • I agree with Kevin as I own footholds in NVORX,NWGRX, and NTEIX (Emerging Markets Fund) at TOS (ThinkorSwim) in a non-taxable account for a very reasonable amounts, well below the initial minimums.
  • Oh Dear Me! David Iben does NOT have ONE CENT in any of his funds. This goes against my religion. Cannot buy any of his funds, no sirree.

    Back to the drawing board. Life sucks most intensely.
  • VF, could you share the reference ?
  • Reference to David Iben not owning any of his funds? Here...

    http://www.nuveen.com/MutualFunds/FormsLiterature/Prospectuses.aspx?refsrc=iwt

    You can click on SAI for fund of choice.
  • VF, thanks for the link. I don't like that he has nothing invested in several of the funds that he manages, including NWGRX. I would be curious to know if he has any skin in JGV, but I could not find any information in my brief internet search.
  • edited July 2011
    But maybe he is invested in the Institutional or Privately Managed versions of his funds? That link above by VF does not list all of their funds.

    I too would like to see managers invested in their own funds but I'm ok if they're invested in similar funds on the institutional or privately managed side of the fence. An example is a Global 130/30 fund that he may be invested in but I don't know.

    Another example is if he owns tons of money in a taxable account and so uses privately managed accounts to invest in very similar global strategies as his mutual funds but additionally uses tax-managed strategies....which could also be a similar offering to their wealthy clients.

    Nice to see that he does donate....
    http://www.marshall.usc.edu/news/releases/2011/new-global-equity-fund-usc-marshall-mba-students

    http://www.bgcv.org/iben-family-resource-center

  • edited July 2011
    Sorry Kenster. No fund is indispensable. Manager needs to show his investors he is invested along with them. If not the poor folks forced to buy load shares or load-waived shares at Schwab, then at least the institutional investors. Having to go on a fishing expedition about the altruistic motives of fund manager is simply futile.

    If Hussman did not invest in his fund and instead ran a hedge fund in which he invested, how many investors would he have. Not me, that's for sure.

    In any case, the SAI is supposed to list any investments the manager has in "pooled investments" that manage in the same way. I don't see any evidence of that either. Regarding his giving to charity, I don't see the connection. It tells me he is not a FCB. I mean Bill Miller also gives to Charity I'm sure. No effing way I invest with Bill Miller.

    My manager has to feel my grief every day the market goes down. And I need him to make it obvious to me he is feeling that grief. I'm the customer, he's the seller. I'm already doing enough due diligence here, and I need to have a life. If manager does not care enough about his investors to make it obvious he has skin in the game, there are plenty other managers that will.
  • edited July 2011
    VF - I understand what you're saying but I was trying to clarify his possible investments in privately managed accounts.

    I'm still not clear --- do the SAI's spell out what the fund manager has invested in privately managed accounts or not? That's something I'm trying to clarify.

    The opposite is also true - there are many funds that the managers invest in that I also wouldn't invest in either.

    Here's another example --- I'm interested in Greenblatt's Formula investing funds on their own merit with or without Greenblatt's personal investment in them or not. Even if the documents show that he has $0 invested in these funds, I'd still be interested because I know that his Gotham Capital firm uses the same investing technique but in a much more concentrated way. I'm really not expecting Greenblatt to dump millions, tens of thousands or any of his personal money into these Formula funds and it would have nothing to do with his confidence in them. Quite the contrary --- he is quite confident in his Formula investing strategy that he would prefer to do it in a more concentrated way, much much more so than what the diversified retail mutual fund does....and he's been doing it for many years. So just because a Formula Investing SAI doc may show Greenblatt as having squat or nothing invested in his Formula mutual funds - I'm not going to immediately discount them because of what I just mentioned.

    His retail Formula investing funds based on a value weighted Formula index (http://valueweightedindex.com/) is just merely a less volatile and much more diversified retail offering of what he's already been doing personally and at Gotham for many, many years. I personally see no need for him to move any of his personal money into the Formula investing funds....it has absolutely nothing to do with lack of confidence or conviction in having his skin-in-the-game alongside investors.

    So that's an example of a case-by-case basis I have to look at as part of a broader picture.

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