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Investing in 'Rule of Law' countries

edited July 1 in Other Investing
Meaning of: Rule of Law
Rule of law is a principle under which all persons, institutions, and entities are accountable to laws that are: Publicly promulgated. Equally enforced. Independently adjudicated. And consistent with international human rights principles.
July 1, 2024, Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor

“Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law,” wrote Sotomayor. “Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop,” she added.

“With fear for our democracy, I dissent,” Sotomayor concluded.

Sotomayor full text.

--- Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson wrote in a separate dissent that the majority’s ruling “breaks new and dangerous ground” by granting immunity “only to the most powerful official in our Government.”

She said that her conservative colleagues were “discarding” the nation’s long-held principle that no one is above the law.

“That core principle has long prevented our Nation from devolving into despotism,” she said. “Yet the Court now opts to let down the guardrails of the law for one extremely powerful category of citizen: any future President who has the will to flout Congress’s established boundaries.”

The liberal justice described the impact of the court’s ruling in dark terms, saying that “even a hypothetical President who admits to having ordered the assassinations of his political rivals or critics or one who indisputably instigates an unsuccessful coup, has a fair shot at getting immunity under the majority’s new Presidential accountability model.”

“In the end, then, under the majority’s new paradigm, whether the President will be exempt from legal liability for murder, assault, theft, fraud, or any other reprehensible and outlawed criminal act will turn on whether he committed that act in his official capacity, such that the answer to the immunity question will always and inevitably be: It depends,” Jackson wrote.

NPR Presidental immunity

This SCOTUS ruling, at some point going forward; will apply to all U.S Presidents.
One may argue that 'Rule of Law' for this country is going, going GONE. The term 'President' may be in name only, at some point in the future.

One's investments may be affected going forward by U.S Presidential actions, more than ever before.

Your November VOTE will be the most important of your lifetime.

A HAPPY 4th of July.

Respectfully,
Catch
«13

Comments

  • edited July 1
    Congress persons already have such immunity. They should extend the same immunity to all Judges so all three branches can enjoy the same privileges. In due course, they should extend that privilege to all corporate officers. E.g., bribes (gifts) given to politicians and judges in the context of official acts by corporate officers. If a politician, judge, or corporate officer has to take drugs to perform well in their job, they should be immune from prosecution. Then, we have to extend the same immunity to the drug dealer and the carrier. Level the playing field!
  • Time to move this to OT ?
  • edited July 1
    Yes

    Edit: but @catch22 should have a say as it is his thread. Some one can help contrast today's decision to the one given in Nixon's case. In any case, I am not sure how today's ruling would impact the US capital markets in the short to intermediate term.

    I hope it was obvious that my previous post was a satire / comedy at the S. Ct.'s activism in general.

    Edit, Edit: I am happy to delete both this and my previous post if Catch or others wish.
  • edited July 1
    Derf said:

    Time to move this to OT ?

    BaluBalu said:

    Yes

    Please move to OT.

    Important topic. Only wish this were mainly about making and losing money in the markets.

  • Agree with hank , but to much political stuff is going to hit the fan ! Guess I'll forgo this thread.
  • I haven't read the decision yet, but it sounds like a logical extension of "qualified immunity". That originally (1967) gave police immunity from being sued for violating people's rights if they were acting in good faith. It was extended (1982) to cover all public officials and now covers all acts unless an act in question violates clearly established law, even if the intent is malicious.

    Stop me if you've heard this before. Qualified immunity is justified because:
    • Officers and public officials need qualified immunity to carry out their jobs. ...
    • Removing qualified immunity could open up public officials and police to unwarranted lawsuits ...
    • Officers [and public officials] do not have absolute immunity ...
    https://supreme.findlaw.com/supreme-court-insights/pros-vs-cons-of-qualified-immunity--both-sides-of-debate.html

    It's not a perfect analogy, but it portrays a historical arc of increasing immunity for the government when acting in ways that are anything but very, very illegal.
    In Kisela v. Hughes, an Arizona police officer shot a mentally impaired woman four times as she stood “stationary” in her driveway holding a kitchen knife at her side. The record revealed that the seriously injured woman was “composed and content” and speaking with her roommate from a distance when the officer opened fire. In granting immunity, the Supreme Court held in 2018 that the officer had not violated “clearly established law.”

    In dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, joined by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, wrote that the “one sided approach to qualified immunity transforms the doctrine into an absolute shield for law enforcement officers . . . It tells officers that they can shoot first and think later . . . and it tells the public that palpably unreasonable conduct will go unpunished.”
    https://eji.org/issues/qualified-immunity/

    Getting back to the subject of this thread, the US is still moderately highly ranked (26/142) in 'Rule of Law', generally. Even higher (22nd) in Regulatory Enforcement. Though in both, the US is ranked below the Republic of Korea and the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (SAR).
    https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/global/2023/table

    Should we be looking more closely at the HK stock market?
  • boom. just what I've been saying. In HK, it's Beijing that calls the shots. The "Leader" in HK is hand-picked by the Communist Mainland regime. Rights are curtailed or canceled. It's disgraceful. In the USA, The Trumpster is guilty as sin, and the whole world knows it. He packed the court, now they are paying him back. I want to vomit.
  • @Crash. Right on bro!
  • To those who would rather not discuss politics in this forum I understand. The discussion can and will likely mirror our national discourse or lack there of. And while politics might not impact our collective portfolios in the next quarter,,,, the possible collapse of our democracy will impact all aspects of our lives,,,, our portfolios includes. So we can bury our heads in the sand or try to understand what is happening and how it will inevitably impact our financial future. Just my opinion.
  • Re, the markets. Friday and today there were several weaker than expected economic reports. Yet, 10 year bond yields rose quite a bit both days. Not what you would expect. Here’s a quote below from Citi’s bond guy on maybe why. Not to mention the Fed may lose their independence and/or Jerome Powell under a Trump presidency. Personally, have no use for either candidate. What ever happened to centrist politicians?

    “Post-debate, Trump seems to have received a meaningful bump,” writes Citi's Jabaz Mathai. “We think that yields will be at risk of continuing the move higher from this week on expectations of tax cuts and higher Treasury supply with a Trump White House, with any tempering effect dependent on economic data.”
  • This post is apolitical.
    Apoliticism is apathy or antipathy towards all political affiliations. A person may be described as apolitical if they are uninterested or uninvolved in politics. Being apolitical can also refer to situations in which people take an unbiased position in regard to political matters.
    Assumptions have been made that this is a political post as the SCOTUS ruling happened to involve a former U.S. President.

    From the original post:
    “Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law,” wrote Sotomayor. “Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop,” she added.
    The post is as noted in the subject line: 'Rule of Law'. Rule of Law may have many faces and places, but when too many laws are taken away or seriously perverted, the impacts may show in many places; including one's investments.
  • edited July 1
    +1.

    And by the way, today is Canada Day. It's not perfect up there, either, but it's nothing like the shit-show we are living through here, south of the border. I lived up there for about a year, many moons ago.
  • @catch22, I and others did not think or assume that you intend or meant to make this a political thread. I am open to whichever direction you want to take the thread.
    Whether the thread should be moved to OT or stay where it is, my previous post said, "@catch22 should have a say as it is his thread."

    Interest rates are expected to continue to be volatile as investors / traders game out who is likely to win. Pick your poison! Good luck to all us.
  • In case people missed it, the historical arc of increasing government immunity started with the Warren court.

    Now I'm going to go and rewatch a movie I haven't seen in many years about the tension between divine right and the rule of law in days of yore:


  • Truly a great one, yes. Brilliant script.
    Mitch the Grinch gets a helluva lotta credit for stymying the wheels of the Rule of Law. He's another who needs to go. He will not be missed from here.
  • @msf A fine choice indeed. We'll have explore to find where this movie now resides in the world of 1's and 0's,
    Ah, found it in HBO library for $3.99 rent. Much cheaper than a hamburger, so TIS a good deal.
  • @ catch22 I also didn't take it to be a political post, but that yelling & name calling going forward was going to start. So far so good.
  • Yes, Mitch created this mess, and I hope he rots in his grave soon.

    Many ordinary folks don't realize that Trump facilitated this far-right SCOTUS fiasco. He and Mitch were quite the team. American democratic values mean nothing to these maniacs.

    The "best" part is the life-tenure of a Supreme Court judge.....who also appear to have immunity. The scales are tipping. Its happening in our lifetimes, as those in power go unchecked. If laws mean nothing, the system may eventually crumble.

    Will the US economy remain #1? Could Trump as dictator, along with the current SCOTUS and a far-right tilted justice system, tear this country apart? Stay tuned. I didn't think they could ever overturn Roe-Wade, and send us backwards. But it happened.
  • Quite correct. @JD_co
  • catch22 said:

    A fine choice indeed. We'll have explore to find where this movie now resides in the world of 1's and 0's,
    Ah, found it in HBO library for $3.99 rent. Much cheaper than a hamburger, so TIS a good deal.

    It's free on Cinema Box (thank you Roku search).

  • edited July 1
    To All - I’d like to withdraw my earlier request that the thread be moved to Off Topic. I made the comment in good faith thinking I was supporting @BaluBalu’s “Yes” response to @Derf’s question as to whether the thread should move to OT. My comment posted at 2:17 PM and I believe my quote of @BaluBalu was accurate as of that time. But, as you can see, he amplified / expanded on that initial “Yes” with an “Edit” at 4:12 PM. So I erred in thinking I was lending support to him. No problem. I believe in free speech. Was just trying to back up a fellow colleague’s viewpoint, but ended up getting caught in the crossfire. So no objection and apologies to @Catch22.

    Umm … My largest foreign holding, based in Switzerland, unfortunately did not benefit from today’s SC decision and related turmoil. Took a good hit. My infrastructure fund, however, mostly concentrated acrosd Europe gained a bit.

    Sounds like a good movie @msf. And @Derf I can understand if you have less stressful things to partake of. Myself … got a couple $$ riding on the Mets who are facing the Nationals on ESPN tonight.
  • msf said:

    In case people missed it, the historical arc of increasing government immunity started with the Warren court.

    Now I'm going to go and rewatch a movie I haven't seen in many years about the tension between divine right and the rule of law in days of yore:


    A truly glacial adaptation of a much snappier stage play IIRC

  • Haven't seen the play, but it looks like at least one production runs longer (2:25 + 15 min intermission) than the movie (2:00). That play running length is consistent with a 2008 production described in the NYTimes.

    To each one's own.

    ("Snappier" could refer to dialog differences, but "glacial" suggests speed.)

    https://www.shakespearenj.org/events/detail/a-man-for-all-seasons (see addl tkt info)
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1013162-man_for_all_seasons
  • edited July 1
    @hank, I was not throwing you under the bus. I specifically left the time trail for other to see so you are not in the cross fire.

    My first reaction to Derf's question was in the same jest as his question; afraid this thread could derail fast into name calling. But after the market closed I realized my curt reply could come across as ignoring Catch, which was not my intent and as such I chose to add the Edit.

    I gave you cover with my note to @catch: "I and others did not think or assume that you intend or meant to make this a political thread." You are in the "others."
  • edited July 1
    A Man for All Seasons: $8.50 DVD @ Amazon- closed captions & subtitles.

  • @msf
    Thank you. We did find the movie at Roku, as you noted.
  • edited July 1
    msf said:

    Haven't seen the play, but it looks like at least one production runs longer (2:25 + 15 min intermission) than the movie (2:00). That play running length is consistent with a 2008 production described in the NYTimes.

    To each one's own.

    ("Snappier" could refer to dialog differences, but "glacial" suggests speed.)

    https://www.shakespearenj.org/events/detail/a-man-for-all-seasons (see addl tkt info)
    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1013162-man_for_all_seasons

    Saw it when it came out. Watched it again in the last five-ten years. Maybe I would enjoy the movie if I saw it again. I have also seen a competent stage production, and read the script.

    In this case glacial refers to all of the backgrounds and atmosphere the movie injects.There's no time for that in a stage production. The interaction between the characters speaking their lines has to carry the show.

    Or perhaps I miss the character of The Common Man who cuts through all of that stuff in a production of the play.

    Or maybe time, and a little history, has left me less enchanted with More all these years later.
  • edited July 2
    I still recall, from "A Man For All Seasons:" Actor Paul Schofield was marvelous.

    "...Why Richard, it profit a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. . . but for Wales?!"

    A powerful point. Richard had been made Prince of Wales. Richard had sold out, and wanted to get back at Thomas in any case, because early on, Thomas More would not hire him. Richard, it turns out, would do or say whatever anyone else (The King, or Cromwell, or whoever) required him to do or say. Kinda like the majority on the current SCOTUS.
  • @catch22
    Your post reminded me of a recent Wealth Track Show where the premise of life + liberty (rule of law) = higher long term investment returns.
    Perth Tolle created the Life + LIberty Indexes on the theory that democracy pays. Her Freedom 100 Emerging Markets Index is proof, trouncing its autocracy-heavy benchmark in its first five years.


  • Indeed an informative show!
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