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Really? Just 10 months after the USPS lost a $50 savings bond (part of a 2022 tax refund), the Treasury Department issued me a substitute paper savings bond.For Series EE and Series I bonds, we no longer issue substitute bonds in paper form. We issue those substitute bonds in electronic form, in our online system.
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- if the USPS loses the mail, handing them a tracking number will not locate it (I've gone through that process); or
- if TD says it didn't receive the mail when it did, it will be pointless arguing with them since they'll still insist I file another form for reissue; or
- if TD does receive the savings bonds, TD will send an email acknowledgement three months later (which is what happened): Remember too, stamps were 8% cheaper back then (58¢)
Keeping the single savings bond in my safe deposit box raises other concerns. Will that box still be around in 30 (now 29) years? Will I? Why create an additional hassle for an executor by keeping it separate from all the electronic savings bonds?
Cashing savings bonds at banks can have its own problems - while most (but not all) banks will redeem savings bonds, many require that you have accounts with them, sometimes long term.
after an uptick in fraud, some banks quit accepting them
Sept 2022, https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/us-paper-savings-bonds-taking-long-time-to-cash/
Some banks and credit unions may be able to cash savings bonds, but that service isn’t currently available at Capital One.
https://www.capitalone.com/learn-grow/money-management/how-to-cash-in-savings-bonds/
To cash in a savings bond(s) at your local [U.S. Bank] you must [be] ... A signer on a U.S. Bank checking, savings or money market account that has been open for five (5) years or more.
https://www.usbank.com/customer-service/knowledge-base/KB0209712.html
Very scary. I have to wonder what percentage of the homeless are in that state because of inability to deal with "the system".
The Homeless Advocacy Project (HAP) primarily assists with SSI, SSDI, and housing issues for clients who are homeless or at imminent risk of homelessness
As to brick walls, I just keep pounding away, hoping that once in a while it can make a difference.
(If you're not familiar with Dr. Who, the video below may not make much sense. Just think of it as representing how long it can take to break through some walls.)
Our bank (of long standing) wasn't not allowed to cash them -- the paper bonds had to be sent in to the Treasury Department. TD had mailed us a form with good instructions.
The bank did its job endorsing the back and vouching for us and I mailed them off.
No word. No deposit into our checking account.
Wait longer.
Finally I tried calling TD. I got a recorded message with the 13 week warning.
But I didn't even know if they had received my envelope. So I called again and stayed on hold for the promised hour and 45 minutes.
The person I finally talked to was friendly and helpful. Yes, the bonds had been scanned into the system (just a couple of days after I mailed them), but we shouldn't expect to see our money any sooner than the 13 weeks already mentioned.
At least we knew we were in the system. And their deposit eventually showed up in our checking account.
Two points:
(1) Why does anybody think this is acceptable? We loan the US our money and have to go through such a complicated drawn-out process to get the loan repaid.
(2) The Treasury Department and IRS are underfunded and understaffed, but when Congress voted to help remedy that, the Republicans conjure up a campaign issue that the money will go to unleash an army of vindictive agents.
If I could simply open and manage a Treasury Direct account online, I'd be interested in government bonds. But I'm not about to get involved with exchanging paperwork with them (like using a tax refund to buy I-bonds).
David
TD was just overwhelmed by the deluge of I-Bond orders. It wasn't always like that. Hopefully, things will return to normal soon. Of course, I-Bonds can be bought at TD only.
Sigh.
I was told that it is TD policy to replace paper bonds issued within the previous 12 months with paper bonds. After that, you replacements of paper bonds will be electronic.
The supervisor drew a distinction between "reissued bonds" (e.g. when a savings bond is retitled due to an owner's death), and "substitute bonds". While I can appreciate that subtle difference, the form's wording muddies the distinction. Still, at least I can articulate the one year paper policy.
The safest thing to do perhaps is to wait until you receive all tax refund bonds (including "substitute bonds" for any lost in the mail), and only then mail them all in together to get converted to electronic form.
Alternatively, send in the paper bonds you have, and wait a year to request "substitute bonds" for those lost in the mail. Those should then (and only then?) get automatically registered in electronic form.
Some things still don't make sense, however. Form 3062 conflates "reissued" and "substitute". It says in one place that "When we reissue a Series EE or Series I savings bond, we no longer provide a paper bond". While in another place it says that "For Series EE and Series I bonds, we no longer issue substitute bonds in paper form."
Another is that I was told that one can request electronic savings bonds as part of a tax refund. Perhaps so, but I can't find how to do that. All I see is Form 8888 that allows you to request paper savings bonds.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8888.pdf
Speaking of Form 8888, the TurboTax FAQ "How do I buy savings bonds with my tax refund?" has its own problem. It says that you can use the form to request up to three savings bonds. You have no choice on the savings bonds, but can request refund direct deposits into up to three financial institutions.
https://ttlc.intuit.com/turbotax-support/en-us/help-article/small-business-processes/buy-savings-bonds-tax-refund/L33edmEa2_US_en_US
It required the three of us to sit in a bank officer's office for over a two hours signing, notarizing etc. We eventually got the money ( took several months) but it was a huge waste of time and required us to all be in the same place
For other treasury we keep all of them at our brokerage,
I could have simply mailed the $50 bond back, waited four months or so, and watched for it to show up in my TD account. I was just annoyed by the facts that TD didn't do what it said it would do (issue electronic replacements) and I wound up being the one paying (in postage and personal time and effort) for it. Next time, if there is a next time, I can just wait out however long it takes for things to work as expected.
And the USPS did deliver 11 out of the 12 savings bonds (each in its own envelope) correctly the first time. Maybe you'll get lucky and get all dozen delivered properly.
My guess as to the cause of sma3's trouble is that there were various combinations of siblings as co-owners on the savings bonds. While TD says that only one owner's signature is required to cash a paper bond, the bank may have been overcautious and wanted everyone to sign together. These days, how many paper bonds do they cash?
"Both owners must sign for most other transactions [aside from cashing the savings bond]"
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/savings-bonds/buy-a-bond/register-a-bond/
This is just one of a few reasons why I feel it is better to keep the savings bonds in electronic form.
If you inherit paper bonds and want to get them into electronic form, it's a little tricky because there are instructions for inheriting bonds, instructions for converting to electronic form, but not instructions to do both in one step. I was in that situation a few years ago, back when TD was helpful. I got very clear instructions on what form to use and what to mail in. No problems, handled quickly. I might be able to dig up those instructions if someone needs them.
Those savings bonds reached final maturity and I got a timely automated email from TD informing me of the pending maturity. After they matured, I was able to log in and cash out nearly immediately. That still works.
The bonds were still in my Mom's name. We thought about changing that while she was still alive, but it would have required us all to go to bank and do the same thing and she didn't have the stamina for it at 99.
I don't remember if we could have done it by mailing in the bonds etc, but as you point out, that requires trip to PO and insurance and certification. I love my lost PO staff, but I do not trust the USPS to handle things with 100% efficiency. They lost my daughter's college tuition check. Almost got kicked out of school!
How do we buy this 6.8% ytm. Ty
https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/inflation-treasury-series-i-savings-bonds/
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/forms/sav0105.pdf
What confused me was that the way you wrote your original post, it sounded like all siblings had to be at the bank together to cash the savings bonds. However, each bond could have been cashed alone by the individual sibling named as beneficiary on that bond. Three trips and six hours instead of one trip and two hours; not really an improvement.
Your experience illustrates the variability in cashing savings bonds in banks. I recently helped (instructed) someone in cashing inherited savings bonds. This person's main bank was Capital One, which is how I learned that Capital One doesn't handle savings bonds. A backup bank initially informed this person that the money would have to be left in an account at the bank for some number of days, or perhaps it was weeks. Fortunately, when they actually cashed the inherited bonds, it was a quick and painless process, and the cash was made available either immediately or within a day (I forget).
Regarding postal services: while registered mail gets somewhat more careful handling, ISTM its main virtue is insuring valuables. Nonnegotiable instruments like checks and savings bonds have no insurance value. So I don't use registered mail for them.
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Registered-Mail-The-Basics
I use certified mail when I want proof of delivery (e.g. for a legal notice). Even certified mail can get lost (been there, done that). Maybe certified improves your odds of completed delivery, but there's still a risk. If TD says it didn't receive the savings bonds, all the proof in the world to the contrary won't help avoid filing for replacements.
I did all the research on how to handle it and knew far more about it than the bank officer
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/savings-bonds/manage-bonds/death-of-owner/court-appointed-representatives/