Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

    Support MFO

  • Donate through PayPal

Any way to get some compounded annual returns for various funds 15 years out?

edited March 2013 in Off-Topic
Just curious how a set sum of money - say $100,000, would have done in some "low or moderate risk" funds over last 15 years. Target funds dated 1998 would offer some insight I suppose. Am thinking of cautious funds, with perhaps 60-40 or 40-60 allocation models. Not necessarily the best. Just something Joe or Jane Doe might have latched onto & how handily they might have beaten bank CD returns or similar over a 15 year span.

Two problems here. (1) Most fund returns are given in "average annual" terms. This is considerably higher than with true annual compounding. And, the farther back you go, the more distorted the numbers become. (2) Sites I'm familiar with generally go back only 10 years. Appreciate any insights.

Comments

  • I believe (but haven't confirmed) that "average annual returns" reported are geometric, not arithmetic averages. That is, they are the true compounding that you are seeking. (For example, a 10% return in year 1 followed by a 20% return in year 2 would have an geometric average return of 14.9%, not 15%.)

    Regardless, one way of finding this (give or take the errors of Yahoo) is to look at finance.yahoo.com. Look at the historical prices, adjusted close. (The adjusted close is supposed to take into account reinvested dividends.) For example, for Magellan (FMAGX), the current (3/25/13) adj close is 79.03. Fifteen years (3/25/98) ago it was 53.88.

    So the total compounded return was (73.03 - 53.88)/53.88 = 46.677...%
    Annualized yield = [(1 + compound return) ^ 1/(number of years)] - 1
    = [(1.466778...) ^ 1/15] - 1 = [1.02586...] - 1 = 2.59%


    Another way to get the 15 year yield is with M*. Using their premium screener, you can screen on a ticker (e.g. FMAGX). Then, when you view results, you select "Create/Modify custom view", and add "15 year return" to the list of columns you want displayed in your custom view. M* reports a 15 year annualized return of 2.55% for FMAGX. (Could be that I'm off by a day with the Yahoo data - M* may have started on March 26.)
  • edited March 2013
    Reply to @msf: Thanks. Here's one source confirming your earlier statement that the returns given do include compounding. (I was wrong in my assumption.): "Average Annual Return --- For multiyear periods, mutual funds report average annual returns. ... The average annual return is a compounded return. For example, if a fund reports a three-year average annual return of 10 percent, the three-year total return from the fund would be 33 percent, with the 10 percent compounding each year." http://finance.zacks.com/yield-calculated-mutual-funds-returns-4634.html

    Also ... found an interesting illustration. Using "average annual" returns of 5% and 8% (2 scenarios) over a 4-year span, they manage to come up with vastly different end results (depending on market volatility). http://americancenturyblog.com/2013/02/cio-insights-volatility-and-returns/

    -----
    And, for what interest it may hold for others, located a couple such funds, but with 1996 inception dates. (1) American Century's Strategic Allocation Conservative (TWSCX), currently holding 45% equities. has returned an average +6.09% since inception. (2) Its sister fund, Strategic Allocation Moderate (TWSMX), also with a '96 inception date, has returned +7.05%. It's currently about 64% in equities. https://www.americancentury.com/funds/monthly_performance.jsp

    Interestingly, Lipper places both of the above funds in the same category of "mixed allocation - moderate" - than proceeds to give the second fund top marks for performance, but down-grades the first (more conservative one) by a couple notches in their scoring system.

    In an attempt to get a handle on short term money market rates over the same period, I located two funds with 1996 inception dates:

    The Wells Fargo (previously Strong) Advantage Ultra Short Municipal Bond Fund (SMUAX) has returned an average 3.05% since its 1996 inception. http://www.wellsfargoadvantagefunds.com/wfweb/wf/funds/profiles/profile.jsp?fundNo=3230

    The Wilmington Short Term Corporate Bond Fund (Institutional with 10 Mil minimum) has returned an average 3.93% since 1996 inception. https://research.zecco.com/research/mutualfund/snapshot.asp?mcsymbol=MVSTX

    Neither of these is typical of what the average Joe and Jane Doe investor would own. However, together they might reflect an average short-term Interest rate climate somewhere in the 3-4% range over the 17 years since 1996 - for those willing to take only minimal risk. The two American Century moderate risk funds did considerably better - even taking into account the devastating equity and junk bond markets of late 2007 into early 2009. FWIW






  • MJG
    edited March 2013
    Hi Guys,

    Here is a linear, step-by-step procedure to complete the calculation that I believe you seek. It starts immediately.

    For the 15 year data that you seek, go to Yahoo finance at:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/

    Next, input the fund symbol in the upper left side, get quote box and hit.

    In the column on the left side of the screen will be a “performance” option in the listing. Hit it.

    The resulting screen will display both annual and quarterly returns for extended timeframes. Copy the values (15 or 60) you wish. Statistically, the 60 point quarterly data is more meaningful from a volatility perspective.

    Transfer the copied returns data to a Standard Deviation (SD) calculator.

    A Standard deviation calculator is at:

    http://ncalculators.com/statistics/mean-standard-deviation-calculator.htm

    Input the quarterly or annual returns in the box at the right side of the screen and hit calculate button. The SD will appear instantly. The mean is the average annual return.

    The heavy lifting is now complete.

    The final simple calculation is to convert average return and standard deviation into compound (geometric) annual return.

    The equation is:

    Compound Return = average annual return = 0.5 X SD X SD

    All values should be in decimal equivalents.

    The calculation is now finished.

    The compound return is always less than the average return unless SD is zero.

    The compound return is the true return that is needed when estimating or evaluating end wealth.

    I hope this is helpful, satisfies your needs, and is not overly simplistic.

    Best Wishes.
  • Reply to @hank:
    Here's a "simple" way to get the average (annualized) return for a MMF over the past 15 years - and this technique will work for any mutual fund.

    1) Get its latest prospectus via the SEC web site. Look for the 10 year annualized performance figure.
    2) Get the corresponding prospectus from 10 years ago. Look for the 5 year annualized performance figure.
    3) 15 year annualized performance =
    { [(1 + ten year figure) ^ 10] x [(1 + five year figure) ^ 5] } ^ (1/15) - 1

    For example, I looked up Fidelity Cash Reserves.

    Jan 2013 Prospectus (with 10 year performance through Dec 31, 2012): 1.81%
    Jan 2003 Prospectus (with 5 year performance through Dec 31, 2002): 4.42%

    15 year annualized =
    { [(1 + 0.0181) ^ 10] x [(1 + 0.0442) ^ 5] } ^ 1/15 - 1 =
    {1.4853295... } ^ 1/15 - 1 =
    1.02672669... - 1 =
    2.673% / year

  • Reply to @msf: Now that's damned clever. (-: And thanks!
  • Reply to @MJG: Thanks MJG. Fascinating. Will work on it next opportunity.
  • edited March 2013
    M* provides 15 year annualized return for funds that has that much history. Enter the ticker and go to Performance tab.

    For example, for 15 years here are the annualized (geometric) total return for some funds:

    VWELX 6.93%
    VWINX 7.06%
    VBINX 5.50%
    VGSTX 6.18%
    FBALX 6.97%
    GLRBX 7.09%
    OAKBX 9.01%
    PRPFX 8.42%
    MAPOX 7.17%
  • Reply to @Investor:
    Thanks! For some reason, I'd forgotten that M* added the 15 year performance to its "visible" data, which is why I've coaxed it out of the premium screener for a long time. (Doesn't work for MMFs, since M* doesn't track them, but is the simplest method for pretty much everything else.)
  • edited March 2013
    Reply to @Investor: Thanks Investor. Worked like a charm & very helpful. In the case of TWSMX - which I cited earlier - the two year difference caused it to drop from just over 7% (average annual) to just under 6%.

    Price's short term bond (PRWBX) produced 4.23% over 15 years.

    The (Strong) Wells Fargo ultra short muni (SMUAX) fell all the way from 3.05% to 2.69% after lobbing off the two years. Wow. Only 2.69% average annual return over 15 years for those investors. Even with the Federal tax exemption, not too hot.

    NOTE to first-time users at M* ... Make sure you enter fund ticker symbol in the "Quote" box at the top. If you enter in the "Search" box, the performance tab won't come up.
  • Reply to @hank: Stong marketed its Advantage (STADX) fund as an enhanced cash fund, though it didn't use that term. Rather, it said that this was good for cash that you didn't need for 1-2 years. It later brought out Strong Muni Advantage (SMUAX, not SMAUX), in a similar vein. But unlike STADX which grabbed lower quality bonds to make up for its high ER, SMUAX was higher grade from the start. (All from memory, which tends to fade after so many years:-)

    In any case, here's a BusinessWeek column from 2001 backing up my "enhanced cash" characterization: "'[Federated Muni Ultra Short Fund is] just one step away from money market funds - a step most people miss' .... Others of this ilk include Strong Muni Advantage Fund yielding 4.21%, and Nations Short-Term Municipal A, with a 4.45% yield."

    My point is that between the high grade portfolio and the ultra short duration, the object of the fund was preservation, not yield. Enhanced cash - just a step up from MMFs. That its return wasn't great compared with its short term muni peers was expected and desirable - trading return for safety.
  • Reply to @Ted: Thanks Ted. Impressive list. Not sure how Oppenheimer Equity & Income (OAEIX) made the "Mixed Funds" list. Market Watch-Lipper shows it 86.7% stocks at present. A good fund - which I've owned in the past - but not exactly in the same moderate risk camp as most of the others listed.


  • Reply to @Ted: Thanks for the bookmark, Ted. Your links and posts are much appreciated. Rick
  • Isn't there an Excel function that would do this?
  • Reply to @Shostakovich: One more great idea. (-: Can't wait to try them all out. Thanks to all who contributed.
  • Reply to @glampig: Good idea re: bookmarking. In fact I've added the link for "mixed" funds to my home page, as that's the one I most want to follow. There's a nice variety there to fit everyone's needs. And, personally, I think the 15 year perspective is quite valuable (perhaps in different ways) in addition to the 10 year record we're more familiar with.
Sign In or Register to comment.