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Vanguard Trade settlement and transferring cash out of

edited December 2021 in Other Investing
My recent sale of non-Vanguard OEFs at Vanguard have been settling late and Vanguard has not been allowing me to schedule electronic (ACH) transfers to my bank account until T+3 or T+4. For example, the cash from my sell trade on Monday was not made available to transfer out until Thursday AM and I promptly scheduled the cash transfer out at that time but as of Friday night Vanguard still shows the cash transfer as pending (allowing me to cancel the transfer if I wish). I do not encounter similar delays at other brokerages. Vanguard customers, please share your experience.

The Vanguard note for ACH transfer says, "The money from your settlement fund should leave your account no later than the close of the next business day, and you should expect the money to be in your bank account in 2-3 business days afterwards." [Bold added] Vanguard system shows the transfer as still pending.

Bank of America says the following regarding ACH transfers: "When successfully submitted, ACH Credits always post to the Receiver's account by 8:30 AM (Central) on the following banking day – or the same day if you're using Same Day ACH."

With these recent issues at Vanguard, I am less reluctant to make new buys at Vanguard. Is there anything I can do to improve future cash transfers out of Vanguard? In the future, I will use wire transfer instead of ACH, which will also alleviate any holds at the receiving bank. My bank does not charge for incoming wires. What else?

Thanks.

Comments

  • I'm at the point where I use my Vanguard brokerage account to hold Vanguard Funds, and little else. The trading interface requires too many steps to buy and sell etf's. If Schwab would magically offer to sell Vanguard Funds ntf, I'd transfer my Vanguard investments to Schwab in a heartbeat !
  • I have joined carew338 in abandoning Vanguard for anything other than their funds that are unique are Admiral class or that I have a large capital gain in.

    Their systems are slow, clunky and full of restrictions that "Mommie" Vanguard claims are necessary to "protect" investors from horrible errors, like no inverse or leveraged ETFs

    The Independent Adviser for Vanguard Investors reports horror stories every month of arithmetical mistakes, poor customer service and other ridiculous problems
  • That is why we have resisted conversions of our VG mutual fund accounts to VG brokerage accounts. I think that VG will finally force that in 2022 but we may be the last ones. We have Fido and Schwab brokerage accounts, and we don't/won't hold anything other than VG funds in VG accounts.
  • It is a little easier to follow an account with several mutual funds than individual mutual fund numbers. Easier to add more money too

    We converted funds to brokerage account without any issues.
  • That is why we have resisted conversions of our VG mutual fund accounts to VG brokerage accounts. I think that VG will finally force that in 2022 but we may be the last ones. We have Fido and Schwab brokerage accounts, and we don't/won't hold anything other than VG funds in VG accounts.

    My Flagship Rep does not see a forced conversion on the horizon. That said, Vanguard does not inform their Flagship Reps much better than their clients.
  • sma3 said:

    I have joined carew338 in abandoning Vanguard for anything other than their funds that are unique are Admiral class or that I have a large capital gain in.

    Why not transfer the non-Vanguard holdings in kind to another brokerage?

    It's cheaper to trade TF funds at Fidelity: $5/purchase using automated investing, $0 to sell vs. $20 to buy or sell at Vanguard.

    Here's Investopedia's comparison of Vanguard and Fidelity. While clearly recognizing the superiority of Fidelity's platform, FWIW they consider Vanguard's platform adequate for its target (buy-and-hold and retirement) investors.
    https://www.investopedia.com/vanguard-vs-fidelity-4587961

    On the other end of the spectrum, looking at option trading, Fidelity and Schwab pay for order flow. Vanguard does not. Schwab receives payment for order flow on equity orders as well.

    There are features that one loses by moving to Vanguard's brokerage platform. On the fund platform, one can (or could, last I checked) convert an exact dollar amount from a traditional IRA to a Roth. On the brokerage platform, one specifies the in-kind conversion by number of shares.

    Checkwriting is affected. From the brokerage agreement:
    immediately upon the transfer of Your Vanguard Funds into Your [Brokerage] Account You agree to cease using the checkwriting drafts (CWRs) issued on Your Vanguard Funds and to destroy any unused checks.
    https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/vbsaac_042016.pdf

    Power of attorney may not transfer over to the brokerage platform. In that case, one would have to set up power of attorney again, including paper forms and signature guarantees. This only affects a relatively small number of Vanguard customers. But I happen to be among them, and would not have known had I not asked. This alone is sufficient to dissuade me from converting.
  • From personal experience, POA does not transfer. Nor will most brokerages accept a POA form from you lawyer. You usually have to fill out their specific form, usually notarized.
  • msf
    edited December 2021
    This is about converting an existing account at an institution to a brokerage account at the same institution. Was that your experience, or did you transfer assets to an account at a different institution? In reality, all that transfers between institutions are assets (and some cost basis/transaction history), not the entirety of the account.
    https://www.finra.org/investors/learn-to-invest/brokerage-accounts/understanding-brokerage-account-transfer-process
    https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsacctxferhtm.html

    Vanguard told me that aside from the exceptional circumstances pertaining to a small number of investors' POAs including mine, POAs would be retained when converting fund platform accounts to brokerage platform accounts. That was Vanguard's explanation for why it did not not mention this in its conversion emails.

    I misspoke in saying that Vanguard requires a signature guarantee. You are correct that it requires notarization not a signature guarantee, but it also requires witnesses. My recollection was from 2020 when "shelter in place" was the norm and getting a third party involved was problematic regardless.
  • They did require a new POA. I know this because when we switched my wife's mutual fund account to a brokerage account, the full POA I had on the account is now just a limited POA. Her other accounts remain full.

    I am sorry but I can't remember if we had to get it notarized, or if you can do it all online. There is a process to add an agent online, but I think it is limited only

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