Just wanted to get this learned community’s input on our situation.
A couple years ago, due to a number of fortuitous events, Mrs. Ruffles acquired a significant amount of cash that she parked at Fido for convenience’s sake. Due to the overheated markets, she’s been reluctant to invest it for fear of incurring a substantial loss. A much more significant amount of funds is fully invested in her retirement accounts here and elsewhere. Her salary more than covers her annual expenses.
When she first acquired her cash, she was in touch with her Fido advisor but decided it was better to do nothing than rush into something. The advisor recently reached out to her so we had a teleconference with him. We thought he might have some ideas but he kept expecting us to drive the conversation.
I mentioned that it wasn’t imperative to invest all the cash right away due to her other investments and that, if she were to invest, our concerns included downside protection and tax minimization. He mentioned dollar cost averaging, Fido’s wealth management service and separately managed accounts, outside advisors Fido works with, and tax-loss harvesting.
It was all very generic so I asked that he forward us more details on some of the strategies he mentioned. In response, he emailed us links to the website pages on wealth management services, managed accounts, and planning services - nothing I hadn’t seen before. To say the least, we were both underwhelmed.
I responded asking for more details (performance, risk, costs, etc.) on the strategies he mentioned so that we could make some informed decisions. After two days, crickets - not even a simple acknowledgement.
Am I expecting too much or should this be in the advisor’s wheelhouse? What have others experienced in working with advisors at Fido and other brokers?
Comments
All that said, your advisor should consider your entire portfolio and make recommendations on this new $ given the whole strategy/plan. They should provide you with an in depth "education" of WHY... so that you may make an informed decision. They should educate you so that you are well informed to decide. They should not tell you what you should do. I have had very positive experiences with Fid advisors over the years. But, like Dentists and Doctors, all have a different manner... you just have to find the right one that is a partner and explains and is patient. If someone sends you web links without a thoughtful conversation/explanation etc. - then you must move on to another advisor. IMHO. Hope this is helpful.
Somehow, over the years, I'd already half-way expected the kind of "service" you've received. A ONE-TIME in-person visit to a brick-and-mortar office with a BofA-Merrill Lynch guy was very helpful to me in evaluating my holdings at the time, many yeas ago. Since my friend was this guy's client, my friend asked if the fellow couldn't find time to see me for an hour. He did it for me at no charge. He was attentive, sharp, listened a good deal. But my pot was not very big. He offered to take on the job of managing my investments via one of his associates in the office. But only if I could get it up to $100k. I was not far away from that figure, back then. He offered to follow up with fund recommendations, and he did, via email. He wanted to run them past me, and I could see that they would have been fitting, but not my choices..... I guess I just needed to keep the control. I use some personal filters that others just would never bother with. So, the meeting was valuable, confirming that I had not already run my money off a cliff into oblivion, and so staying the course was in order. I was very grateful to him for his time, and told him so. .....I DO think that not rushing to do something, anything--- is a GREAT idea. And yes, I'd have expected more. But then, always and immediately, I must remind myself these days that wherever I turn, substantive communication is never the goal. Otherwise, we'd not always hear a RECORDING telling us our call is important. And people who are supposed to be of service to us would actually be able to think and communicate, not just send hyperlinks to webpages. .....Just this morning, I played my part, attempting to get in touch with those for whom actual communication is not a priority. But of course, what can you expect from their end? They've shown their hand already. I don't really matter to them. No one does, unless you happen to get lucky and catch the call at THEIR convenience.
There's a popular perception that people you talk with for free are "advisors". Even with a large amount of assets at an institution, that's rarely the case. The people one talks with, e.g. "Private Client Advisors", are sales people. They're there to match you with for-pay services, and to give you warm fuzzy feelings about keeping your money with them. As you observed, it is all very generic.
On Fidelity's site I can no longer readily find the phrase "Private Client Advisor" or much of anything that suggests one's free investment "team" or lead provides advice.
For the most part the only place you'll find "advisor" mentioned is in the context of pay for service. See this Fidelity page on "How we can work together". No mention of advisor under DIY or its pure robo offering (Fidelity Go).
When you get to the next fee level (Fidelity® Personalized Planning & Advice), you find "1-on-1 financial coaching calls with Fidelity advisors". Wealth Management, the next fee level up, brings you "a dedicated Fidelity advisor". And finally for those with over $2M at Fidelity and willing to pay for the services, there's Private Wealth Management, with "a dedicated Wealth Management Advisor and team of specialists".
"Am I expecting too much...?"
Yes.
Years ago, Vanguard would provide customers with enough AUM a free financial plan prepared by a CFP. That's been gone for years. These days, TANSTAAFL.
I didn’t expect him to provide specific investment advice as I see him as just a go-between. But I do expect him to ask questions and provide information to guide our exploration of Fidelity services. It benefits us and it benefits him in the long run.
When he mentions certain services, including the ones @msf mentions, I expected that he could provide me with more information on them than just sending me the website links. I was expecting at least some sort of fact sheet on the various options he mentioned including information on salient aspects of their underlying investment strategies (he frequently referred to outside management companies Fido works with) or at least a personal referral to internal Fido contacts who could help.
At the very least, I expect a response to my email asking for more information, even if it was to say that he was unable to provide what I asked for.
Not generic? Well isn't that special
he reached out to us to see if he could help and his name and picture pop up as her advisor when logged in. And his email seems to indicate that he leads a team of some sort.
Similar story here. A team member of the "advisor" I was assigned six months ago left me a message last week asking if I'd like to talk with the lead. I left a return message declining. I wasn't interested in another "getting to know you" conversation.
When you get to a certain level at brokerage firms, they assign an "advisor", a team, or both to keep you feeling comfortable. Customer relationship management.
But I do expect him to ask questions and provide information to guide our exploration of Fidelity services. It benefits us and it benefits him in the long run.
That sounds like a description of a good salesman.
I expected that he could provide me with more information on them than just sending me the website links. I was expecting at least some sort of fact sheet on the various options he mentioned including information on salient aspects of their underlying investment strategies (he frequently referred to outside management companies Fido works with)
It's a heavily regulated and litigious industry. All their material has been reviewed by lawyers and they risk exposure if they go off script. While there's always the possibility of being introduced to services or products of which I am unaware, I have no expectation of being provided Information I couldn't find and read on my own.
At the very least, I expect a response to my email asking for more information, even if it was to say that he was unable to provide what I asked for.
That lack of response sounds like a description of a poor salesman.
My advisor at Schwab is still there and a nice guy who helps with stuff, although I am not on a fee basis with him. Still even there I am usually shunted off to an unknown in Orlando
My parents used a full service broker at Morgan Stanley who I have gotten to know well. He will still sell you stocks on a large commission ( $150 to$200) but really would rather sign you up for their manged portfolios ( chosen by a committee) at 1% a year, and then review it with you a couple of times a year. I notice he is rarely in the office after 3 PM.
Even people at firms with minimum account requirements of $5,000,000, tell me they have had portfolios changed from individual stocks chosen by their manager, to cookie cutter allocations, chosen by a committee.
On the other hand my sister has had her new broker at Morgan Stanley walk though all of her accounts with her, help her combine them all into one with her new inheritance, and then will sit down with her to go over her options. I do not think this broker is a novice, and I assume she is running a fair amount of money overall, but the fact she will go to such lengths for a new client is impressive.
I guess like most professions, there are many people who try hard to do a good job, although the structure of the industry is working against them.
I’ve been wondering why the Fido phone reps I’ve spoken with over the past week all sounded like tape recorders, making it hard to ask questions. Thanks @msf for answering that one.
Speaking of service, I can remember when a uniformed attendant at filling stations came out and filled your tank, washed your windshield, checked the oil level and maybe the tire pressure if you asked. Suspect the ending of that era likely signaled the impending demise of any level of service or convenience.
Thanks @MrRuffles and everybody for this fascinating thread.
https://thefinancebuff.com/vanguard-fidelity-large-account.html And from a related Finance Buff piece: https://thefinancebuff.com/customer-service-questions.html
At the end of the day, they're just doing what salespeople are supposed to do: present product and services, walk the customer through the process of getting those services, and above all Keep the Customer Satisfied. How well they do that is another question.
I do not know what you would get if you signed up for "management services" for a fee.
I do. I have a relative who had an Investment Advisory Program account (wrap fee, discretionary) with TIAA for a few years, and moved it to Vanguard PAS (also wrap fee, discretionary) upon my recommendation.
At TIAA (with a much higher fee) this person worked with an individual adviser. Based on the relative's assets and future plans, the adviser worked up a plan for investing, for managing a mix of IRAs, taxable accounts, inherited assets, etc., for drawing how much from which accounts in what sequence, etc. A good customer-facing adviser.
Actual investment decisions and execution were handed off to a back end team that traded mutual funds and ETFs somewhat frenetically. So much so that they "harvested" a loss in the taxable account that they irretrievably washed out with a replacement purchase in an IRA. The antithesis of personalization.
In contrast, Vanguard PAS preserves non-Vanguard assets if they have high unrealized gains, and it offers some flexibility in keeping them regardless. The market swoon was an opportunity to move some of those into Vanguard funds without taking a tax hit. That's when the portfolio became somewhat more "cookie-cutter". The service even allows a fair amount of tweaking by the customer (e.g. expressing a preference for actively managed funds or more corporate bonds or ...), but then why have a discretionary account?
They review and discuss the portfolio with the customer quarterly and on-demand as the customer's needs change. They keep customers informed of any upcoming changes in the program. When my relative's adviser decided to take another position within Vanguard (it was something he was interested in doing and the opportunity opened up), he contacted my relative.
If you're interested in what you would get if you signed up for "management services" for a fee, it's all laid out in detail in the Vanguard Personal Advisor Services Brochure
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/vpabroc.pdf
If you think you have a dedicated Fidelity advisor, check your web page. Vanguard and Fidelity used to show an advisor on your "home" page. That has vanished. Fidelity's statements used to give the advisor's name. That's gone as well.
FWIW, Schwab appears to still assign higher value customers dedicated "financial consultants". See the question "How am I assigned to a Financial Consultant?" on this Schwab page.
As I tried explaining in this thread, these are not fiduciaries providing advice in your best interest. Schwab writes that "Their compensation is structured to help limit conflict of interest." Nevertheless those conflicts remain; their compensation is based in part on how much they sell ("Net New Assets to Schwab").
Years ago, Fidelity called this person your "account executive" before changing the title to "financial consultant". Now it doesn't call this person anything; the role seems to have disappeared.