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I have used M* free content for years. Never paid Premium and have no idea what it contains. Question: for those of you who have used the service what are the 3 best useful data points Premium provides that cannot be found elsewhere?
I'd rather just list three features that I find useful and leave it to you to see if they can be found elsewhere. Premium fund screener, analyst reports, and portfolio tracker. Part of the reason why I like the features is simply familiarity. Work with a tool or data source long enough and it's amazing what you learn to coax out of it.
Features that I find of little use include analyst fund ratings ("medals"), the automated fund ratings (for those funds that analysts don't cover), and analyst stock ratings.
If there's a pattern here, it's that I find M* does a fine job of collecting data and crunching numbers. Most other sites transcribe M* data, so in this sense they're not adding value.
The analyst reports are most useful in adding a narrative to the numbers, e.g. this fund invests in stocks with steady dividends. Broad descriptions driven by numbers that you can check. The analyst reports also fill in info that doesn't show up elsewhere in M*'s data, such as how much hedging a fund does.
What filters within Premium Fund Screener are most useful in your opinion? why?
"Work with a tool or data source long enough and it's amazing what you learn to coax out of it." Can you give me one example? I rarely have found anything useful in these paid services.
One simple example - get a quick comparison/filter of bond funds that made over 2.1% in 2013 (generally a down year for bonds).
The screen tells me that the main type of bonds that that did well was junk bonds: 39 bank loan funds, 139 HY bond funds, 5 core plus, 23 multi-sector, 16 nontraditional. There were also a few funds in less "junky" categories: 2 corporate bond funds, 1 EM local currency fund, 7 short term, and one word bond (hedged) fund.
Only 11 funds above junk (above BB), only 2 of those above BBB. Mostly "deep" junk.
Reset the filter to retrieve trailing returns between 0% and 2.1% exclusive, and one starts seeing lots of muni funds.
It used to be a lot easier to get info out of the screener before M* broke the ability to build custom views (which I had used to get 15 year trailing return data, among other things). It's still possible to coax all this info out from a screen, but one needs to do it via filters.
I rarely use M* when I need detailed performance data. I found Stockcharts to be more user friendly and quicker, fund comparison easier and includes any distributions in the total return and quicker left click features. Something I always wondered... look at VWINX. Stockcharts YTD shows 1.7% thru 10/28, but M* Interactive YTD shows 1.34% thru 10/28. Where is the delta error?
I use premium. Provided because I reached a threshold in my holdings with TRP, so it's free for me. I like to read the Analyst Reports, although they are never very negative when perhaps they ought to be more pointed in that direction. But they do provide some info and insights in a very convenient way. When I go to the actual fund websites, much of that stuff is hidden or very granular and inconvenient to try to find. Example: finding the recent list of monthly or quarterly dividends at TRP. Easier to find on Morningstar--- although that item is FREE. Click on "Performance," and then you have a choice to see RETURNS or DISTRIBUTIONS. It gave some of us a bit of irritation when M* revamped everything and hid the DISTRIBUTIONS on a "sub-page." So, you had to just experiment or already know (somehow) how to find that particular data point. ("New and IMPROVED," my butt.)
We agree that StockCharts is wrong. Vanguard showed 1.71% (it now shows 1.75% through 10/29), and Vanguard is the authoritative source.
If you're clicking (interactive chart) and clicking again (YTD) at M* to get YTD data, it's not surprising that M* would appear less friendly than StockCharts. All you need do is read the (correct) YTD data straight from the fund's "home" page. No extra navigation required.
The instructions say that one can use a slider to change dates, or one can hold the shift key (to adjust starting date) or hold the ctl key (to adjust ending date) and simultaneously click arrow keys until a date changes to the desired value.
You asked..."Does this have anything to do with M* Premium"?
You asked me if M* Basic was daily data. In order for me to answer the question I went to M* Interactive Charts to get detailed data. That lead me to find the inconsistencies and hence my question.
I can teach you how to use PerfCharts. Place your cursor over the slider and right click. This gives you several options including YTD which as of 10/29 shows +1.73%. Vanguard shows 1.75% as of 10/29.
Extra navigation is required in M* if you need to compare funds which is my main daily workload which is why Stockcharts is so much better for that purpose. They offer free Technical Analysis SharpCharts as well. They also offer nice seasonality charts which I seem to be using more frequently.
When I want to compare two funds in M*, I go to a legacy performance page for a fund, add other funds (one at a time), and get tabular comparisons. Not only how well each fund did over standardized periods, but how much better (or worse) the reference fund did than the other funds over the standardized periods.
M* automatically provides a comparison with the fund category average and with a suitable benchmark. If I want to compare VWINX to another fund (or more) I click on "Compare" which opens a text input box. Then all I have to do is enter the fund ticker. No muss, no fuss, no need to click on a slider or link to retrieve data and generate comparisons for "all" standardized periods. Specifically, the tabular data automatically displayed includes:
Annual performance 2015-2019 and YTD (click on "Expanded view" for 2010 and up)
Trailing returns over the past 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 3 month, 1, 3, 5, 10, and 15 years (computed to date, to end of last month, or to end of last quarter)
Monthly and quarterly returns over the past five years
Morningstar is designed for fund investors. StockCharts is designed for technical analysts (e.g. it defaults to price charts, not performance pages). As @Crash may have implied, M*'s new pages are, at least compared with its legacy pages, designed for no one.
That said, you found no inconsistencies. Check carefully the dates of the periods you were displaying. I'm not suggesting that the M* software is flawless, far from it. But the figures you read were correct for the dates on the graph. Lousy programming, but accurate data.
And none of this has anything to do with Premium features.
When comparing performance, double-check the dates.
Charts may not have adjusted even if the dates may have scrolled. M* Performance tables have different dates for Day, Month, Quarter tabs.
M* Growth-of-10K uses a different methodology than that used by Stockcharts and Yahoo Finance. M* runs growth of 10K with reinvestment of distributions. Stockcharts and Yahoo Finance use adjusted-prices by making a ratio-adjustment for distributions; total-return is then found from current-price and the old adjusted-price. Stockcharts show both adjusted-prices [TICKER; default] and actual-prices [_TICKER].
I have done several comparisons and the results are close enough but may not match to the 2nd or 3rd decimal places. And then, M* Portfolio results don't exactly match with those from brokerage or fund statements after long times.
M* Premium allows Analyst Reports, X-Rays, longer Portfolios, Premium Screeners, Medalist features, some Premium articles/videos, etc. For most part, M* Basic is fine.
msf, you might want to look deeper into PerfCharts for non standardized start and end date functionality, Histogram and right click sort features. The slider also has advantages in Histogram mode. Lightning quick comparison over any timeframes when sorted by performance. To each his own. Yogi, I'm good if the performance calculation is a methodology only issue. Second decimal is close enough. X ray used to be avail on TDAmeritrade. Thanks for everybody's inputs.
Vanguard now reports YTD (10/29) of $1.75, StockCharts reports $1.73, and M* reports $1.75. That's more than yesterday's penny's worth of rounding error. While I appreciate that real investors care about real account balances, I consider the fund itself to be the authoritative source.
M* has a slider that can be used in the same way as with StockCharts. Curiously the StockCharts slider has one additional feature: the ability to enter explicitly the span of a timeframe, but not where that timeframe sits. M*, in contrast, provides the ability to input explicitly the beginning and end dates. I find that more valuable, as setting both dates automatically defines the span, while inputting the span does not determine the dates.
How would you get the total return of VWINX from 2/21/20 to 3/23/20?
The ability to show relative performance in a StockCharts graph is a cute little feature. It, like the ability to sort "historgrams" (more accurately called bar charts), presents an alternate visualization of data it has graphed.
StockCharts seems to carry a limited data set. When I ask PerfChart for "all" the data it has on VWINX, it only goes back to 1/4/1999. We all know that Wellesley is older than that. 1994 is an important down year to look at. It's just not there. M* provides the whole history back to 1970.
My personal bottom line is that I can live with almost any UI, but I can't live without accurate and complete data.
What you don't understand is that you can drag the right edge of the slider to specific start and end dates. This gives you specific 'rates of change' in percentage terms. Or you can double click in the slider itself and assign a specifc number of days. You can see the desired date range in the top left corner. PerfCharts gives you % rate of change by specifc ranges very quickly. That is the value in PerfCharts over M*. I can live with a $2 error on $10k base in exchange for the functionality. I think you mean 1.73% not $1.73 value as stated in your post.
Thank you for your time with the Stockcharts "how to".
I have used and posted here from Stockcharts for a number of years. Is it the only tool in my shed of information?....NO; but I use some of the very basic information that helps me make decisions. I'm not a member, so there are indeed other options available. I don't have enough time in my day to go further into the site. I'll link a 7 minute video that will help others have a better understanding of the areas I use. YES, it would be nice to be able to set a begin and end date, but the slider allows for establishing time frames that are adjustable. I'm not concerned that the charts do not travel backwards past Jan. 1999. I was an investor beginning in the late 1970's and have that perspective in my brain cells; and the markets evolve to a point of what caused a given event "x" years ago does not necessarily apply to "now". The "this time is different" is still in place and constantly adjusting "the new normal". COVID political outcomes, anyone???
ADD: Stockcharts question: Does the Percent Change value displayed reflect the “Total Return” for each stock? A: In general, yes, as long as you are not using “unadjusted” ticker symbols (i.e. ones that start with an underscore). >>> I have verified in the past that the percentage shown does include any distributions from a fund.
Lastly, a PLAY CHART. As with other charts I've linked, this chart is active for you to use and save for future use. You may simply change the ticker symbols at the very top area with your choices. So, watch the above video and have a go. NOTE: this chart starts at Oct. 2009, due to the inception date of ZROZ. You will encounter this limitation and/or not be able to chart some very young symbols. Otherwise, you should be able to chart virtually any symbol. ALSO, hover the cursor pointer over any section of a graph line for a bit more info.
You're right about my confusing $ and %. (BTW, one drags the left edge of the slider to specific start dates. Editing errors by one and all)
My point about setting specific dates was not that you couldn't do this with the StockCharts slider (or with the M* slider for that matter). Rather, it was that requiring the use of a slider to input precise dates is poor UI design. (You had written that you "found Stockcharts to be more user friendly".)
Here are excerpts from a couple of UI pages:
Slider Design: Rules of Thumb
Summary: Selecting a precise value using a slider is a difficult task requiring good motor skills, even if the slider is well designed. If picking an exact value is important to the goal of the interface, choose an alternate UI element.
When website sliders don’t work ... [S]ometimes, sliders aren’t the answer. For instance, if your users need to select very precise information. Sometimes sliders can make it harder for users to land on a value if the range is too large.
For me, data is paramount. If the data isn't there, it really doesn't matter whether one tool is easier or harder than another to use. Could one answer this question with StockCharts: What funds have never had a losing year? In a slightly different form, this was actually asked in another thread this year; it's not a hypothetical exercise.
StockCharts data for TGLMX starts on Jan 7, 1999. The fund lost about 1/2% in price in the first week of 1999 (you can check prices at Yahoo), and about 1/2% for the whole year. That means that the fund was essentially flat from Jan 7, 1999 to Dec 31, 1999. But StockCharts says that the fund lost 4.89% over this period (you might double check my reading). That's a huge discrepancy.
You may tolerate small data errors, but for me this is game over. To paraphrase the late Senator Dirksen, a percentage here, a percentage there, and pretty soon we're talking real money.
No, I am correct. You need to slide the right edge of the slider. Both edges can be moved, but sliding the right edge towards the left of the screen produces exact date ranges. Chances are high that any fund started in 1999 doesn't have the same manager anyway, so reboot once the manager changes in my book.
you can drag the right edge of the slider to specific start and end dates. ... I am correct ... sliding the right edge towards the left of the screen produces exact date ranges
Sliding (dragging) the right edge toward the left changes the end date to an earlier date. StockCharts writes: "Left-click on the right edge of the slider's thumb and drag it left or right to change the chart's ending date".
Since the left edge (starting date) does not move, sliding the right edge leftward does have the effect of compressing the date range, hopefully to the exact range desired. However, sliding the right edge does not move the left edge - it does not change the start date.
Chances are high that any fund started in 1999 doesn't have the same manager I suppose that's true, but why suggest that TGLMX started in 1999? StockCharts isn't just missing data for TGLMX for early 1999, but for all of 1998, 1997, 1996, ...
reboot once the manager changes At best, this explains why you don't care about the early missing data. It may matter to others. Lots of people here seem to care about fund history, e.g. MAXDD, regardless of manager.
More generally, are you saying that you don't care about a manager's history once he leaves a fund? Because if you did care, then you would want older data, some of which StockCharts doesn't have.
This is not hypothetical. Lots of people jumped on DoubleLine as soon as Gundlach started it. They based their decision on his record with the fund he left, TGLMX. Unfortunately, they couldn't get his complete record through StockCharts.
I get it, you don't care about older data, so while truncation of data might bother others, you're fine with it. You're also fine with a 5% error in its data on TGLMX performance, because you're not interested in that particular performance figure. But doesn't it concern you that the StockChart data has errors of this magnitude?
You're the StockCharts maven. Where do these errors come from, why should I have faith in what it shows me?
I think we have finished our work here. If you like Rivelle at TGLMX you might like him more at TSI (at the right time in the busines cycle with the right discount). Great manager. I plan to own it at some point in the future.
I agree we're finished here. You had asked about M* premium features and then made a sharp turn into how delighted you are with StockCharts' presentation of performance data.
You might have been led astray by Crash's post where he first describes premium features but then talks about how he uses the whole site, including the "FREE" performance data. My takeaway from his post is that M* offers an integrated website where one can take advantage of useful premium features and with a few clicks get lots of details about funds. At least if M* hasn't messed up the layout too badly.
I presented TGLMX as an example of a fund for which StockCharts' data is both incomplete and incorrect. I selected it out of the list that M*'s premium fund screener provided me not because of personal interest but because it is well known.
Comments
Features that I find of little use include analyst fund ratings ("medals"), the automated fund ratings (for those funds that analysts don't cover), and analyst stock ratings.
If there's a pattern here, it's that I find M* does a fine job of collecting data and crunching numbers. Most other sites transcribe M* data, so in this sense they're not adding value.
The analyst reports are most useful in adding a narrative to the numbers, e.g. this fund invests in stocks with steady dividends. Broad descriptions driven by numbers that you can check. The analyst reports also fill in info that doesn't show up elsewhere in M*'s data, such as how much hedging a fund does.
"Work with a tool or data source long enough and it's amazing what you learn to coax out of it." Can you give me one example? I rarely have found anything useful in these paid services.
The screen tells me that the main type of bonds that that did well was junk bonds: 39 bank loan funds, 139 HY bond funds, 5 core plus, 23 multi-sector, 16 nontraditional. There were also a few funds in less "junky" categories: 2 corporate bond funds, 1 EM local currency fund, 7 short term, and one word bond (hedged) fund.
Only 11 funds above junk (above BB), only 2 of those above BBB. Mostly "deep" junk.
Reset the filter to retrieve trailing returns between 0% and 2.1% exclusive, and one starts seeing lots of muni funds.
It used to be a lot easier to get info out of the screener before M* broke the ability to build custom views (which I had used to get 15 year trailing return data, among other things). It's still possible to coax all this info out from a screen, but one needs to do it via filters.
NOTE: I'm using M* without an account/sign in. Never had a subscription.
I see +1.34% in top right green for M*. We agree on Stockcharts +1.70%
If you're clicking (interactive chart) and clicking again (YTD) at M* to get YTD data, it's not surprising that M* would appear less friendly than StockCharts. All you need do is read the (correct) YTD data straight from the fund's "home" page. No extra navigation required.
I don't see any easy way to get the same data out of StockCharts. I've found no instructions on how to query YTD performance data. I can only find StockChart instructions on how to input starting/ending dates for performance data.
https://support.stockcharts.com/doku.php?id=other-tools:perfcharts#changing_the_chart_s_time_period
The instructions say that one can use a slider to change dates, or one can hold the shift key (to adjust starting date) or hold the ctl key (to adjust ending date) and simultaneously click arrow keys until a date changes to the desired value.
[Sliders make lousy numeric input widgets. "Use a slider only when the precise value won’t matter to the user."
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/gui-slider-controls/]
At least once I get everything set up, and then I mouse over the chart, I do finally see the 1.70% figure you stated.
FWIW, here's an interactive M* chart with the correct 1.71% figure.
M* chart.
Does this have anything to do with M* premium features?
You asked me if M* Basic was daily data. In order for me to answer the question I went to M* Interactive Charts to get detailed data. That lead me to find the inconsistencies and hence my question.
I can teach you how to use PerfCharts. Place your cursor over the slider and right click. This gives you several options including YTD which as of 10/29 shows +1.73%. Vanguard shows 1.75% as of 10/29.
Extra navigation is required in M* if you need to compare funds which is my main daily workload which is why Stockcharts is so much better for that purpose. They offer free Technical Analysis SharpCharts as well. They also offer nice seasonality charts which I seem to be using more frequently.
For example, here's the legacy performance page for VWINX.
M* automatically provides a comparison with the fund category average and with a suitable benchmark. If I want to compare VWINX to another fund (or more) I click on "Compare" which opens a text input box. Then all I have to do is enter the fund ticker. No muss, no fuss, no need to click on a slider or link to retrieve data and generate comparisons for "all" standardized periods. Specifically, the tabular data automatically displayed includes:
- Annual performance 2015-2019 and YTD (click on "Expanded view" for 2010 and up)
- Trailing returns over the past 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 3 month, 1, 3, 5, 10, and 15 years (computed to date, to end of last month, or to end of last quarter)
- Monthly and quarterly returns over the past five years
Morningstar is designed for fund investors. StockCharts is designed for technical analysts (e.g. it defaults to price charts, not performance pages). As @Crash may have implied, M*'s new pages are, at least compared with its legacy pages, designed for no one.That said, you found no inconsistencies. Check carefully the dates of the periods you were displaying. I'm not suggesting that the M* software is flawless, far from it. But the figures you read were correct for the dates on the graph. Lousy programming, but accurate data.
And none of this has anything to do with Premium features.
Charts may not have adjusted even if the dates may have scrolled. M* Performance tables have different dates for Day, Month, Quarter tabs.
M* Growth-of-10K uses a different methodology than that used by Stockcharts and Yahoo Finance. M* runs growth of 10K with reinvestment of distributions. Stockcharts and Yahoo Finance use adjusted-prices by making a ratio-adjustment for distributions; total-return is then found from current-price and the old adjusted-price. Stockcharts show both adjusted-prices [TICKER; default] and actual-prices [_TICKER].
I have done several comparisons and the results are close enough but may not match to the 2nd or 3rd decimal places. And then, M* Portfolio results don't exactly match with those from brokerage or fund statements after long times.
M* Premium allows Analyst Reports, X-Rays, longer Portfolios, Premium Screeners, Medalist features, some Premium articles/videos, etc. For most part, M* Basic is fine.
Yogi, I'm good if the performance calculation is a methodology only issue. Second decimal is close enough. X ray used to be avail on TDAmeritrade. Thanks for everybody's inputs.
M* has a slider that can be used in the same way as with StockCharts. Curiously the StockCharts slider has one additional feature: the ability to enter explicitly the span of a timeframe, but not where that timeframe sits. M*, in contrast, provides the ability to input explicitly the beginning and end dates. I find that more valuable, as setting both dates automatically defines the span, while inputting the span does not determine the dates.
How would you get the total return of VWINX from 2/21/20 to 3/23/20?
The ability to show relative performance in a StockCharts graph is a cute little feature. It, like the ability to sort "historgrams" (more accurately called bar charts), presents an alternate visualization of data it has graphed.
StockCharts seems to carry a limited data set. When I ask PerfChart for "all" the data it has on VWINX, it only goes back to 1/4/1999. We all know that Wellesley is older than that. 1994 is an important down year to look at. It's just not there. M* provides the whole history back to 1970.
My personal bottom line is that I can live with almost any UI, but I can't live without accurate and complete data.
Thank you for your time with the Stockcharts "how to".
I have used and posted here from Stockcharts for a number of years. Is it the only tool in my shed of information?....NO; but I use some of the very basic information that helps me make decisions. I'm not a member, so there are indeed other options available. I don't have enough time in my day to go further into the site. I'll link a 7 minute video that will help others have a better understanding of the areas I use. YES, it would be nice to be able to set a begin and end date, but the slider allows for establishing time frames that are adjustable. I'm not concerned that the charts do not travel backwards past Jan. 1999. I was an investor beginning in the late 1970's and have that perspective in my brain cells; and the markets evolve to a point of what caused a given event "x" years ago does not necessarily apply to "now". The "this time is different" is still in place and constantly adjusting "the new normal". COVID political outcomes, anyone???
ADD: Stockcharts question: Does the Percent Change value displayed reflect the “Total Return” for each stock?
A: In general, yes, as long as you are not using “unadjusted” ticker symbols (i.e. ones that start with an underscore).
>>> I have verified in the past that the percentage shown does include any distributions from a fund.
Lastly, a PLAY CHART. As with other charts I've linked, this chart is active for you to use and save for future use. You may simply change the ticker symbols at the very top area with your choices. So, watch the above video and have a go. NOTE: this chart starts at Oct. 2009, due to the inception date of ZROZ. You will encounter this limitation and/or not be able to chart some very young symbols.
Otherwise, you should be able to chart virtually any symbol.
ALSO, hover the cursor pointer over any section of a graph line for a bit more info.
Take care,
Catch
(BTW, one drags the left edge of the slider to specific start dates. Editing errors by one and all
My point about setting specific dates was not that you couldn't do this with the StockCharts slider (or with the M* slider for that matter). Rather, it was that requiring the use of a slider to input precise dates is poor UI design. (You had written that you "found Stockcharts to be more user friendly".)
Here are excerpts from a couple of UI pages: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/gui-slider-controls/ https://www.justinmind.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-designing-slider-controls
For me, data is paramount. If the data isn't there, it really doesn't matter whether one tool is easier or harder than another to use. Could one answer this question with StockCharts: What funds have never had a losing year? In a slightly different form, this was actually asked in another thread this year; it's not a hypothetical exercise.
Consider TGLMX (formerly TCW Galileo Mortgage-Backed Securities Fund). It last lost money in 1999. StockCharts can't tell you this, because it doesn't have complete 1999 data for the fund.
StockCharts performance graph of TGLMX (try "sliding" all the way to the left)
M* graph showing a 0.46% loss for TGLMX in 1999.
TGLMX prospectus from 2000 showing a 0.46% loss for TGLMX in 1999.
StockCharts data for TGLMX starts on Jan 7, 1999. The fund lost about 1/2% in price in the first week of 1999 (you can check prices at Yahoo), and about 1/2% for the whole year. That means that the fund was essentially flat from Jan 7, 1999 to Dec 31, 1999. But StockCharts says that the fund lost 4.89% over this period (you might double check my reading). That's a huge discrepancy.
You may tolerate small data errors, but for me this is game over. To paraphrase the late Senator Dirksen, a percentage here, a percentage there, and pretty soon we're talking real money.
Sliding (dragging) the right edge toward the left changes the end date to an earlier date. StockCharts writes: "Left-click on the right edge of the slider's thumb and drag it left or right to change the chart's ending date".
Since the left edge (starting date) does not move, sliding the right edge leftward does have the effect of compressing the date range, hopefully to the exact range desired. However, sliding the right edge does not move the left edge - it does not change the start date.
Chances are high that any fund started in 1999 doesn't have the same manager
I suppose that's true, but why suggest that TGLMX started in 1999? StockCharts isn't just missing data for TGLMX for early 1999, but for all of 1998, 1997, 1996, ...
reboot once the manager changes
At best, this explains why you don't care about the early missing data. It may matter to others. Lots of people here seem to care about fund history, e.g. MAXDD, regardless of manager.
More generally, are you saying that you don't care about a manager's history once he leaves a fund? Because if you did care, then you would want older data, some of which StockCharts doesn't have.
This is not hypothetical. Lots of people jumped on DoubleLine as soon as Gundlach started it. They based their decision on his record with the fund he left, TGLMX. Unfortunately, they couldn't get his complete record through StockCharts.
I get it, you don't care about older data, so while truncation of data might bother others, you're fine with it. You're also fine with a 5% error in its data on TGLMX performance, because you're not interested in that particular performance figure. But doesn't it concern you that the StockChart data has errors of this magnitude?
You're the StockCharts maven. Where do these errors come from, why should I have faith in what it shows me?
You might have been led astray by Crash's post where he first describes premium features but then talks about how he uses the whole site, including the "FREE" performance data. My takeaway from his post is that M* offers an integrated website where one can take advantage of useful premium features and with a few clicks get lots of details about funds. At least if M* hasn't messed up the layout too badly.
I presented TGLMX as an example of a fund for which StockCharts' data is both incomplete and incorrect. I selected it out of the list that M*'s premium fund screener provided me not because of personal interest but because it is well known.