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IVA founders came from First Eagle/Jean-Marie Eveillar as well. With smaller asset basis one would expect IVA would excel over that of the larger asset First Eagle funds. But that is not the case where IVA funds are lagging badly for the last several years. Any thoughts??
If you look at http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/perf.html?ivwix,sgenx and push the timeline back to the beginning of ivwix you will see that ivwix did better than sgenx initially, but has flagged of late, tho' it's not clear why. One warning, the stockcharts are great but don't take cognizance of distributions.
Reply to @NumbersGal: A possible explanation of the initial outperformance of IVWIX is that initially it was not fully invested, so it was steady when everything else was falling. If this is the true explanation, it does not tell too much about the manager skills at IVWIX.
When running the following tickers, I obtain total returns that are matches and/or near matches for total returns at Fidelity, M* and Stockcharts, for YTD. FAGIX did vary about .5% and PONDX varied .1%, all others were the same.
FAGIX, PAUIX, PONDX, SGENX and IVWIX.
--- FAGIX and PONDX have monthly distributions, PAUIX has had 3 for 2012, and SGENX and IVWIX have not yet posted distributions.
You noted:
One warning, the stockcharts are great but don't take cognizance of distributions.
I don't understand this statement regarding Stockcharts. My data was obtained by entering the above tickers on one chart and moving the 200 day slider for a 236 day period, which allows for a full YTD range, as of Dec. 7. I used the Histogram chart function that may be selected at the far left end of the 200 day slider; and provides a bar chart form with % returns listed, which is one method I use at this site.
Do you find wide variances in returns data at Stockcharts when comparing with other sites you may use? Thank you.
Dear Catch, concerning the distributions and the comments by msg: Most of the charts except those on M* show the price drop at the day of the distribution, so they show correctly the NAV, but they fail to show that the NAV changes in part the fund distributed some dividends and capital gains to your pocket. As a result, many charts except M* may give an impression that the money in a fund do not grow at all, whereas in some cases (such as IVWIX) these funds could have VERY large distributions.
Hi andrei, Thanks, andrei. These charts (Stockcharts), do apparently adjust, at some time frame so that "total return" is reflected in what I find at these charts, viewing over a longer time frame. Would you agree with this? Regards, Catch
Reply to @catch22: I don't think so. Take a look at this chart, comparing RYSEX (Royce fund that had a sizeable distribution Dec 5) and PRSVX (another small cap value-leaning fund for comparison). http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/perf.html?RYSEX,PRSVX
You'll notice that the funds roughly track, but there are some differences. Pay attention to the sharp deviation at the far right. That's Dec 5, when RYSEX had its distribution. (You can zoom in to look at the past week.) Distributions don't affect total return, just NAV. Performance chart indeed. Performance of price, not return.
Hi msf, Further investigation using PONDX, which is a fund, where we have monies; and relative to Stockcharts.
We take peeks at this chart (named Sharpchart) at Stockcharts mostly for moving averages and relative strength. Among other settings, this chart is set to a 3 year view. Using the "inspect" icon check box reveals that at the first trading day of 2012 indicates PONDX to be at a NAV of 10.31. This is the "adjusted" NAV for any distribtutions to date; per information obtained from the Pimco site. Being then, that the NAV on this chart has been adjusted properly per data via Pimco.
This data further moves and translates to the "Interactive Performance" (named Histogram) chart feature of Stockcharts, shown here. When one moves the default 200 day, left slider tab to at least 236 days, one is then able to hover the pc mouse pointer over the chart line to again view the NAV of 10.31 at the beginning of 2012's trading period. To the far left on this same line, one may click onto the "teal and red" colored icon (Histogram chart) to obtain a nice bar chart of funds selected for review; and the bar also will place a %, total return for the time peirod involved.
This link is for PONDX, at the Pimco site. Among the many areas one may view, is also a "I want to" section at the right edge of the page. At the bottom of this list is a "calculator" choice. I used this area to determine the adjusted versus, the non-adjusted NAV data for PONDX.
This investigation does indicate to me, that Stockcharts does recognize distributions and performs adjustments, so that data obtained is "total return".
For those reading and/or reviewing this write. Please correct any information here. We all need this information correct, to be of value for use.
Reply to @catch22: i think, catch, that a lot of bond funds, PONDX included, accrue income on a daily basis and it is part of their daily NAV while it is paid monthly. For example if you sell PONDX before the record day (usually month-end), you will still get most of your monthly distribution. Equity funds though might have no distribution whatsoever. but if they do, only those who hold the fund on record day are eliqible. many charting services are not properly reflecting this.
Hi fundalarm, Yes, PONDX and likely other Pimco funds do have a daily value related to accrued income calculation. I will agree about charting sites and whether or not a full "total return" is indicated. In particular, I do feel comfortable with the numbers available at Stockcharts. Thank you for your input in this area; that I/we know at times will cause confusion for those reviewing numbers at charting sites. Take care, Catch
Comments
When running the following tickers, I obtain total returns that are matches and/or near matches for total returns at Fidelity, M* and Stockcharts, for YTD. FAGIX did vary about .5% and PONDX varied .1%, all others were the same.
FAGIX, PAUIX, PONDX, SGENX and IVWIX.
--- FAGIX and PONDX have monthly distributions, PAUIX has had 3 for 2012, and SGENX and IVWIX have not yet posted distributions.
You noted: I don't understand this statement regarding Stockcharts. My data was obtained by entering the above tickers on one chart and moving the 200 day slider for a 236 day period, which allows for a full YTD range, as of Dec. 7. I used the Histogram chart function that may be selected at the far left end of the 200 day slider; and provides a bar chart form with % returns listed, which is one method I use at this site.
Do you find wide variances in returns data at Stockcharts when comparing with other sites you may use? Thank you.
Regards,
Catch
Try this M* chart. It takes into account all distributions, and charts total return.
Thanks, andrei.
These charts (Stockcharts), do apparently adjust, at some time frame so that "total return" is reflected in what I find at these charts, viewing over a longer time frame. Would you agree with this?
Regards,
Catch
I don't think so. Take a look at this chart, comparing RYSEX (Royce fund that had a sizeable distribution Dec 5) and PRSVX (another small cap value-leaning fund for comparison). http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/perf.html?RYSEX,PRSVX
You'll notice that the funds roughly track, but there are some differences. Pay attention to the sharp deviation at the far right. That's Dec 5, when RYSEX had its distribution. (You can zoom in to look at the past week.) Distributions don't affect total return, just NAV. Performance chart indeed. Performance of price, not return.
Further investigation using PONDX, which is a fund, where we have monies; and relative to Stockcharts.
We take peeks at this chart (named Sharpchart) at Stockcharts mostly for moving averages and relative strength. Among other settings, this chart is set to a 3 year view. Using the "inspect" icon check box reveals that at the first trading day of 2012 indicates PONDX to be at a NAV of 10.31. This is the "adjusted" NAV for any distribtutions to date; per information obtained from the Pimco site. Being then, that the NAV on this chart has been adjusted properly per data via Pimco.
This data further moves and translates to the "Interactive Performance" (named Histogram) chart feature of Stockcharts, shown here. When one moves the default 200 day, left slider tab to at least 236 days, one is then able to hover the pc mouse pointer over the chart line to again view the NAV of 10.31 at the beginning of 2012's trading period. To the far left on this same line, one may click onto the "teal and red" colored icon (Histogram chart) to obtain a nice bar chart of funds selected for review; and the bar also will place a %, total return for the time peirod involved.
This link is for PONDX, at the Pimco site. Among the many areas one may view, is also a "I want to" section at the right edge of the page. At the bottom of this list is a "calculator" choice. I used this area to determine the adjusted versus, the non-adjusted NAV data for PONDX.
This investigation does indicate to me, that Stockcharts does recognize distributions and performs adjustments, so that data obtained is "total return".
For those reading and/or reviewing this write. Please correct any information here. We all need this information correct, to be of value for use.
Regards,
Catch
Yes, PONDX and likely other Pimco funds do have a daily value related to accrued income calculation.
I will agree about charting sites and whether or not a full "total return" is indicated.
In particular, I do feel comfortable with the numbers available at Stockcharts.
Thank you for your input in this area; that I/we know at times will cause confusion for those reviewing numbers at charting sites.
Take care,
Catch