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What Is A $ 1,000,000,000,000 Dollars ?

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  • Nice graphic, worth a look. Also click through to the NYTimes (link on page). Fun animation with comps to Apple.
  • nice one Mr. Ted.
    Damn, our house didn't show up on the chart.......got to trade better, as I'm running low on time. :)
  • Except.... there are two ideas as to what a trillion is. In the USA it's got 12 zeroes. In Europe and Asia and elsewhere (and until recently in Britain) it's one million to the third power so it has 18 zeroes. Does this chart compare apples and apples? Or are American (and now British ) Trillions being mixed with the trillions the rest of the world means by that word?
  • msf
    edited August 2018
    What do you mean when you say that in Asia and in Europe the word "trillion" means 10^18? "Trillion" is an English word, it has no meaning in other languages. Even if a word in one language looks identical to a word in another language, they're still different words, and cannot be used interchangeably.

    Of course Asian languages don't even have English cognates. Perhaps you are suggesting that "trillion" is translated into foreign words that mean 10^18?

    We can check that. Trillion translates into 兆 in Chinese. You can find an easy to read Chinese powers of ten table posted in a thread here (just scroll down a bit). That will help you verify that 兆 means not just "trillion" but 10^12. (In case you doubt that 兆 is the translation of "trillion", just look it up.)

    I can't make any sense out of what you're writing - because "trillion" is only an English word, and because even if you look at translations, it comes out as 10^12 in various foreign languages.

    Nevertheless, let's take a look at the sources of the data for the graphic. All but two are domestic. Just to be clear here, I mean domestic with respect to the United States. One of those other two is the Guardian, which as a UK publication, uses trillion to represent 10^12.

    The final source in question is the World Bank. That's an international institution, meaning that it spans more than one country. It's easy to check how it uses "trillion". Noting that the graphic gives Japan GDP as $4.9 trillion, we can just verify that information with the World Bank.

    Here's the World Bank's data page for GDP, represented in current US dollars:
    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=JP

    On that page, you find Japan's GDP is represented numerically as $4,872,136.95 million, i.e. $4.9 trillion. But that's not sufficient to tell you how the World Bank uses the word "trillion". So mouse over the graph on the World Bank page. You'll find that it gives the current (2017) Japan GDP as 4.872 Trillion. There's your confirmation that the World Bank uses "trillion" to mean 10^12.
  • Ben
    edited August 2018
    Thank you for clearing up what was meant in the chart and article. As for the sense of what I wrote I can tell you that "trillion" is originally a French word and that although the spellings vary, "trillion" is the word used in Spanish, Italian, and German. So it does have meaning in other languages... and... the meaning is not consistent. You have a good point about Asian languages. I am not a linguist so let's just talk about Britain and the USA. Until 1974 the meaning of "billion" in the UK was a million millions/ a million to the second power, and a trillion was a million to the third power and so on. In USA the meaning was/is different. A billion in the USA means a thousand millions and a trillion is a million millions. In other words the American word "trillion" represents the number that was represented by "billion" in the UK before 1974. For reasons that are obscure to me, the two systems of "illion" meaning are called long scale and short scale. To the best of my knowledge, most of the English speaking world now uses short scale but the French and Spanish speaking world uses long scale.
    One week ago I was unaware of any of this. As often happens, I came upon this information in the course of researching something entirely different. I was astonished. I still am, because of the potential for international chaos and misunderstanding. When I saw the heading of this post which began "what is", naturally it caught my eye and I wondered if the meaning of "trillion" was consistent within the article linked by Ted.
  • Here's a bit more from Wickipedia:

    Trillion (short scale) (1,000,000,000,000; one million million; 10 to the 12th; SI prefix: tera-), the current meaning in both American and British English.

    Trillion (long scale) (1,000,000,000,000,000,000; one million million million; 10 to the 18th; SI prefix: exa-), the former meaning in British English and the current use in many non-English-speaking countries.

    The SI prefixes are standardized for use in the International System of Units (SI) by the International Bureau of Weights and Measures (BIPM) in resolutions dating from 1960 to 1991. Since 2009, they have formed part of the International System of Quantities.
  • jeez, the wikip article really does not say thousand-billion for the US / short-scale interpretation ??
  • msf
    edited August 2018
    Context matters. The title of the graphic: $Trillions

    Here's what the Financial Times Lexicon says about "billion":
    It was certainly very confusing for a long time having the two systems operating side by side and notes always had to be added to any data indicating which one had been used. Although no official change-over has ever taken place, the US system has now been accepted throughout the world as standard useage - not by law but by custom and practise over time
    Emphasis added.
    http://lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=billion

    Though spelling has not been accepted through the world; British spelling often being more colourful.:-)

    It doesn't matter what the "man on the street" speaks; what matters is what the banks write, what the corporations write, what the governments write in their financial statements. And what they write in those statements are usually numerals.
  • Ben
    edited August 2018
    Numerals I understand. Yes, context. Got it. Thanks.
  • Glad it made sense. It's still worth answering your pre-edit comment, to make it clearer (I hope).

    Different disciplines have their own jargon. Words may look like English (or French, or whatever), but the words don't necessarily mean what you think or what your neighbor thinks. It's up to the reader to learn that jargon..

    For example, if I write "derivative" here, people should be thinking of a financial instrument whose value is "derived" from something else. But if I write "derivative" in a math paper, readers should be thinking of slope, rate of change, etc.

    I was reading a law journal article today about Hamilton and how he argued in various Federalist papers for establishing the judiciary as a separate branch of government.
    In its opening provision, Article III Section 2 of the Constitution declares “The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority.” Brutus construed this provision as broad and dangerous. His analysis pivots on his interpretation of the word “equity” ...

    The word “equity” has a nontechnical meaning: its synonym is “fairness.” But “equity” also has a technical legal meaning. ... Brutus [in raising objections to the proposed Constitution] drew on the nontechnical meaning of “equity” and argued that the Constitution problematically gave federal courts the power to decide cases based on their idea of what was fair [and not just what the law said].
    Brutus did not appreciate that the Constitution was drafted as a legal document using precise legal terms. Hamilton explained the technical meaning of "equity" in Federalist No. 80.
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