Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Support MFO
Donate through PayPal
This is why employment situation is still dragging
In this recession and post recession, local governments have been laying off workers (i.e. your government is getting smaller). This is casting shadow over the gains made by private sector employment gains.
Hi Investor, Part of what still concerns me is whether there are more private sector jobs being created that provide a greater wage and benefits package to the worker; versus prior years. While private sector jobs may be increasing; are these the type of jobs that can support a living wage to a family; but without or little remaining discretionary money for much of anything else? Regards, Catch
Indeed, most of the jobs being created are service industry paying close to minimum wage. The nicer mfg jobs are history - the kind that paid $50K on up with benefits. Most of them are paying 25-30K or so these days with greatly reduced benefits. For a long time your gov't workers lagged pvt sector on benefits, but caught them in the 80's. Then they've been demonized and most of their benefits have been reduced or eliminated. It's funny but back when I went to work for the state is was never about money but the benefits. Hell, my wife worked pvt sector at the same level as I and always made 50% more than I did AND had much nicer benefits.
The other great pathway to the middle class (besides a good mfg job) was education - back when it was affordable before student loans came along. Back when there was still a public education system in this country. Those days are long gone.
Nopers, the we're some of the last vestiges of the middle class in america and it's starting to get lonely.
Indeed, most of the jobs being created are service industry jobs paying close to minimum wage. True, and unlikely to change unless quality products are made here and those of us who can afford to pay for quality choose to do so. Interesting comment in Kiplingers mag this month about buying fewer good quality clothes, often domestically made, and wearing them longer. (Not that garment workers were ever middle class, but one can start somewhere.) Of course, I just bought a laptop for my wife made overseas (China, I presume), but at least I ought it at Best Buy, so some stockholder benefits.
Education only works if you gear it towards a job that can't be outsourced. We import foreign trained doctors and nurses because they're cheaper than producing them locally, and, as a medical educator,I assure you that you often (not invariably) get what you pay for.
I'm really surprised there isn't a financial advice firm based in Mumbai - perhaps I just inadvertently deleted their email.
Good points. I try to buy as local as possible and living in Michigan, extend that to my vehicles. It's a start.
As for education, I think you sell it short. More education is always better. Not necessarily cost/beneficial, but better for the individual and taken in the macro, for society in general. Cripes look at the GI bill coming after WWII - led to the golden age of the 50's and 60's. It was intended as a labor control device to ease the returning vets back into the job market but the real impact was on the enormous education that the GIs received - the investment in human capital, if you will. I'll be so honest as to admit that when I find the bloody 'bottle' and get my 3 wishes, while two will probably be very selfish, one will be to give every human being on the planet, one more year of education on top of whatever amount they had. I still believe that it would make more of a difference than any other one thing.
Around here peeps talk about the Kalamazoo Promise and early on they dogged it saying that the kids would get the education and then move away for jobs. No doubt. However, not all of them will move away. Some will stay and if there are no jobs to be had, they'll invent the jobs. Current land use planning is telling policy makers to stop with trying to attract jobs. That's an industrial age thing. Today, you build a sense of place where folks want to live and raise their kids and the jobs will come to them.
BTW, med ed is my brothers gig. He's been traveling around the world for years advising other gov'ts on how to get their med schools accredited internationally. He founded and has been running the EM residency program of MSU but is in the process of leaving as he's involved with setting up the new med school at WMU. He's AssocDean of Ed.
Could you please explain your statement that we "import" foreign trained doctors? Last time I checked, they came come of their own free will with no financial assistance from the US government. In fact, they pay more money than US grads to take the same licensure exams.
Please explain what you mean by "you get what you pay for." Do you mean to imply that international medical graduates are inferior to US grads? Do you mean to imply that the British (or French or German) system of medical education is a worse system of medical education than the US? Many Indian and Pakistani physicians are trained by the same superior British medical education system (a six year program as opposed to the US 4 year program). This is the same US-centric erroneous thinking that has people believing that health care is "the best" in the US when compared to other industrialized countries (and it isn't; check the statistics).
Then again, one would pay far more for a "medical education" at an off-shore Caribbean school, yet would receive a far worse experience. I don't think in that case one "gets what one pays for."
Investor - i think this is what led Obama to say the private sector is doing fine. I don't know if that is a true statement, certainly not one the masses want to hear. Maybe this is miss placed but overall i think government has been labor heavy and while this may not be a good time for them to trim at some point in time trimming is necessary.
Comments
Part of what still concerns me is whether there are more private sector jobs being created that provide a greater wage and benefits package to the worker; versus prior years.
While private sector jobs may be increasing; are these the type of jobs that can support a living wage to a family; but without or little remaining discretionary money for much of anything else?
Regards,
Catch
Indeed, most of the jobs being created are service industry paying close to minimum wage. The nicer mfg jobs are history - the kind that paid $50K on up with benefits. Most of them are paying 25-30K or so these days with greatly reduced benefits. For a long time your gov't workers lagged pvt sector on benefits, but caught them in the 80's. Then they've been demonized and most of their benefits have been reduced or eliminated. It's funny but back when I went to work for the state is was never about money but the benefits. Hell, my wife worked pvt sector at the same level as I and always made 50% more than I did AND had much nicer benefits.
The other great pathway to the middle class (besides a good mfg job) was education - back when it was affordable before student loans came along. Back when there was still a public education system in this country. Those days are long gone.
Nopers, the we're some of the last vestiges of the middle class in america and it's starting to get lonely.
peace,
rono
True, and unlikely to change unless quality products are made here and those of us who can afford to pay for quality choose to do so. Interesting comment in Kiplingers mag this month about buying fewer good quality clothes, often domestically made, and wearing them longer. (Not that garment workers were ever middle class, but one can start somewhere.)
Of course, I just bought a laptop for my wife made overseas (China, I presume), but at least I ought it at Best Buy, so some stockholder benefits.
Education only works if you gear it towards a job that can't be outsourced. We import foreign trained doctors and nurses because they're cheaper than producing them locally, and, as a medical educator,I assure you that you often (not invariably) get what you pay for.
I'm really surprised there isn't a financial advice firm based in Mumbai - perhaps I just inadvertently deleted their email.
Howdy,
Good points. I try to buy as local as possible and living in Michigan, extend that to my vehicles. It's a start.
As for education, I think you sell it short. More education is always better. Not necessarily cost/beneficial, but better for the individual and taken in the macro, for society in general. Cripes look at the GI bill coming after WWII - led to the golden age of the 50's and 60's. It was intended as a labor control device to ease the returning vets back into the job market but the real impact was on the enormous education that the GIs received - the investment in human capital, if you will. I'll be so honest as to admit that when I find the bloody 'bottle'
and get my 3 wishes, while two will probably be very selfish, one will be to give every human being on the planet, one more year of education on top of whatever amount they had. I still believe that it would make more of a difference than any other one thing.
Around here peeps talk about the Kalamazoo Promise and early on they dogged it saying that the kids would get the education and then move away for jobs. No doubt. However, not all of them will move away. Some will stay and if there are no jobs to be had, they'll invent the jobs. Current land use planning is telling policy makers to stop with trying to attract jobs. That's an industrial age thing. Today, you build a sense of place where folks want to live and raise their kids and the jobs will come to them.
BTW, med ed is my brothers gig. He's been traveling around the world for years advising other gov'ts on how to get their med schools accredited internationally. He founded and has been running the EM residency program of MSU but is in the process of leaving as he's involved with setting up the new med school at WMU. He's AssocDean of Ed.
and so it goes,
peace,
rono
STB65,
Could you please explain your statement that we "import" foreign trained doctors? Last time I checked, they came come of their own free will with no financial assistance from the US government. In fact, they pay more money than US grads to take the same licensure exams.
Please explain what you mean by "you get what you pay for." Do you mean to imply that international medical graduates are inferior to US grads? Do you mean to imply that the British (or French or German) system of medical education is a worse system of medical education than the US? Many Indian and Pakistani physicians are trained by the same superior British medical education system (a six year program as opposed to the US 4 year program). This is the same US-centric erroneous thinking that has people believing that health care is "the best" in the US when compared to other industrialized countries (and it isn't; check the statistics).
Then again, one would pay far more for a "medical education" at an off-shore Caribbean school, yet would receive a far worse experience. I don't think in that case one "gets what one pays for."
Mona
Maybe this is miss placed but overall i think government has been labor heavy and while this may not be a good time for them to trim at some point in time trimming is necessary.
http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/index.php?p=/discussion/4016