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I'll address this question, but not head on, and in a new thread. (I'll follow my own advice - if one wants to talk about bond funds generally, don't do it in a thread about DODIX.)
I almost never post my specific holdings, because it's raw data that's not particularly instructive and can mislead (not apply to other situations). This is one area in which I agree with MJG. At the same time, I can see the value in knowing how I use bond funds to better appreciate (or denigrate ) my comments on the subject.
I'm still thinking about what to write (and the writeup itself will take some time). So you can look for a thread late today or tomorrow. Where I think I draw the line is that I'll acknowledge funds that are on my list of ones to follow - I've done that before and doing so can provide a window into my thoughts. But I generally won't identify which funds (if any) from those lists that I own or have owned.
I did cross that line in posting here that I own neither DODIX nor FTBFX, for the narrow purpose of dispelling any inference that I might be biased because of ownership. Heck, I use Fidelity as a platform, so if anything, I'd be inclined to prefer a fund that is "cheaper".
DODIX costs $75 to buy at Fido, with no DoubleLine-like way around it so far as I can see, which is a consideration for someone possibly not holding for the long run. Yeah, I guess this is settled.
Are you saying that you have no way, outside of using an institution new to you such as Vanguard, to initiate a position in DODIX at Fidelity for less that $75?
I recognize that you already said that you wouldn't use Vanguard for this purpose, and strongly suggested that you wouldn't use any other new institution: "Have never used Vanguard, have been trying to simplify and reduce holdings and institutions"
What point were you trying to make about Baird Core Plus? "BCOIX is $50 TF at Fido, but it says $25k min (self retirement accounts $500)"
That seemed to communicate that one couldn't get around the $50 fee. You probably had something else in mind, given that you now mentioned a technique that you've used (or plan to use) yourself at Fidelity for this purpose.
? Not quite following the misapprehension, but: - Yes, I am saying that Fido says one cannot buy DODIX for other than a $75 TF. - And yes, I am saying that Fido says one cannot buy BCOIX for other than a $50 TF, and moreover with a 25k min except for self retirement accounts, where the min is $500. - No, I have had nothing other in mind all along. - And yes, I have reported (my "technique") that one who purchases DoubleLine NTF / higher-ER class shares at Fido can get them reclassified for free at DoubleLine to the lower-ER class once above a certain $ amount. - This last procedure has nothing to do with anything else. As for transferring TF fund shares from one brokerage to another, I don't know much about that, never having bought (rightly or wrongly) TF fund shares. I don't know anything about other ways to escape TFs. I think someone here posted that the receiving brokerage sometimes pays one's fees of that sort. Certainly some give plain bonuses for transferring, though not Fidelity except in the form of lower-commission or some free trades. ML otoh pays serious moneys for transferring, depending on amounts. HTH.
" - And yes, I have reported (my "technique") that one who purchases DoubleLine NTF / higher-ER class shares at Fido can get them reclassified for free at DoubleLine to the lower-ER class once above a certain $ amount. - This last procedure has nothing to do with anything else."
You do sound emphatic that this has nothing to do with anything else, including BCOIX.
"And yes, I am saying that Fido says one cannot buy BCOIX for other than a $50 TF, and moreover with a 25k min except for self retirement accounts, where the min is $500. "
I'll admit that I haven't asked Fidelity about this Baird fund specifically, but I have verified in the past that they'll let you convert Baird funds with no TF.
"As for transferring TF fund shares from one brokerage to another, I don't know much about that, never having bought (rightly or wrongly) TF fund shares. I don't know anything about other ways to escape TFs. I think someone here posted that the receiving brokerage sometimes pays one's fees of that sort. Certainly some give plain bonuses for transferring, though not Fidelity except in the form of lower-commission or some free trades. ML otoh pays serious moneys for transferring, depending on amounts"
As I've posted before, the fact that Fidelity does not currently have a cash offer on the table does not mean that it has not done so in the past or will not do so again in the future.
I have had positions in TF funds at Fidelity that I opened at no cost at another brokerage. When I closed that other account, I moved all the positions in kind to Fidelity. In fact, I opened a half dozen funds for free specifically to create open positions at Fidelity should I later choose to invest more than a small amount in them. Of course they were carefully selected funds; I wasn't going to open up dozens of junk funds "just in case".
I've also opened funds directly with the distributor when they were closed at brokerages, for the sole purpose of transferring them to my brokerage account. That can often be an easier process than going through a brokerage.
It's not that I'm insensitive to cost. It's that I'm willing to put in little sweat equity to get something that's both cheap and ultimately convenient. I'm also willing to pay a few bucks for convenience, but not much. Certainly not $75 - I'll do that to get cheaper shares (institutional TF vs. 12b-1 NTF); I won't pay $75 for convenience alone.
Everyone has their own threshold. Yours sounds like $0. But just in case it's a little higher, you might want to check out your ML account's fee schedule for purchases and transfers. Just follow this link (you'll have to log in): https://olui2.fs.ml.com/RelationshipPricing/CommissionsAndFees.aspx
>> As I've posted before, the fact that Fidelity does not currently have a cash offer on the table does not mean that it has not done so in the past or will not do so again in the future.
Cool. Not in the 45y I have been with them, I think, but I know you will find the truth.
>> I have had positions in TF funds at Fidelity that I opened at no cost at another brokerage. When I closed that other account, I moved all the positions in kind to Fidelity. In fact, I opened a half dozen funds for free specifically to create open positions at Fidelity should I later choose to invest more than a small amount in them.
This is cool to know. If you have by any chance jumped on the DSENX bandwagon (I think you would have indicated as much elsewhere), do request reclass if / when it's a lot.
>> It's not that I'm insensitive to cost.
I think all of us fans know that.
>> Certainly not $75 ... I won't pay $75 for convenience alone.
Well, we are in violent agreement, again. And you won't be owning or buying DODIX at Fido, unless you parachute it in, so far as I can tell.
>> Everyone has their own threshold. Yours sounds like $0.
Pretty much, rightly or wrongly
>> But just in case it's a little higher, you might want to check out your ML account's fee schedule for purchases and transfers.
We have been $0 at ML for anything and everything for a long time, what with BoA mortgages and helocs, and ML brokerage accounts, and now all retirement accounts but the one which remains at Fido. And now significant cash rewards for transferring in. Zero commish makes it too tempting to trade etfs and buy spec / tip stocks, but the deeper into retirement I go the easier it is to constrain my loser (sometimes gain) impulses.
">> As I've posted before, the fact that Fidelity does not currently have a cash offer on the table does not mean that it has not done so in the past or will not do so again in the future.
Cool. Not in the 45y I have been with them, I think, but I know you will find the truth."
Bonus amount: $200 for $50k+, $300 for $100k+, $600 for $250k+, $1,200 for $500k+, and $2,500 for $1M+ net new assets.
I've since found a better link that describes the same (now expired) 2017 offer as well as what the page correctly characterizes as a unique offer by Fidelity - to match your IRA contributions (in the 401k percentage sense, not dollar for dollar) for three years. Both were 2017 promotions. https://investorjunkie.com/11001/fidelity-promotions/
2017, huh. The last two are even higher than ML. I specifically asked them (special contacts in hnw group blah blah) at the start of last summer about moving all ML assets to Fidelity, and then asked about reward for not moving Fido assets to ML, and in each case the response was nada.
Comments
I almost never post my specific holdings, because it's raw data that's not particularly instructive and can mislead (not apply to other situations). This is one area in which I agree with MJG. At the same time, I can see the value in knowing how I use bond funds to better appreciate (or denigrate
I'm still thinking about what to write (and the writeup itself will take some time). So you can look for a thread late today or tomorrow. Where I think I draw the line is that I'll acknowledge funds that are on my list of ones to follow - I've done that before and doing so can provide a window into my thoughts. But I generally won't identify which funds (if any) from those lists that I own or have owned.
I did cross that line in posting here that I own neither DODIX nor FTBFX, for the narrow purpose of dispelling any inference that I might be biased because of ownership. Heck, I use Fidelity as a platform, so if anything, I'd be inclined to prefer a fund that is "cheaper".
Yeah, I guess this is settled.
I recognize that you already said that you wouldn't use Vanguard for this purpose, and strongly suggested that you wouldn't use any other new institution: "Have never used Vanguard, have been trying to simplify and reduce holdings and institutions"
What point were you trying to make about Baird Core Plus?
"BCOIX is $50 TF at Fido, but it says $25k min (self retirement accounts $500)"
That seemed to communicate that one couldn't get around the $50 fee. You probably had something else in mind, given that you now mentioned a technique that you've used (or plan to use) yourself at Fidelity for this purpose.
- Yes, I am saying that Fido says one cannot buy DODIX for other than a $75 TF.
- And yes, I am saying that Fido says one cannot buy BCOIX for other than a $50 TF, and moreover with a 25k min except for self retirement accounts, where the min is $500.
- No, I have had nothing other in mind all along.
- And yes, I have reported (my "technique") that one who purchases DoubleLine NTF / higher-ER class shares at Fido can get them reclassified for free at DoubleLine to the lower-ER class once above a certain $ amount.
- This last procedure has nothing to do with anything else.
As for transferring TF fund shares from one brokerage to another, I don't know much about that, never having bought (rightly or wrongly) TF fund shares. I don't know anything about other ways to escape TFs. I think someone here posted that the receiving brokerage sometimes pays one's fees of that sort. Certainly some give plain bonuses for transferring, though not Fidelity except in the form of lower-commission or some free trades. ML otoh pays serious moneys for transferring, depending on amounts.
HTH.
- This last procedure has nothing to do with anything else."
You do sound emphatic that this has nothing to do with anything else, including BCOIX.
"And yes, I am saying that Fido says one cannot buy BCOIX for other than a $50 TF, and moreover with a 25k min except for self retirement accounts, where the min is $500. "
I'll admit that I haven't asked Fidelity about this Baird fund specifically, but I have verified in the past that they'll let you convert Baird funds with no TF.
"As for transferring TF fund shares from one brokerage to another, I don't know much about that, never having bought (rightly or wrongly) TF fund shares. I don't know anything about other ways to escape TFs. I think someone here posted that the receiving brokerage sometimes pays one's fees of that sort. Certainly some give plain bonuses for transferring, though not Fidelity except in the form of lower-commission or some free trades. ML otoh pays serious moneys for transferring, depending on amounts"
As I've posted before, the fact that Fidelity does not currently have a cash offer on the table does not mean that it has not done so in the past or will not do so again in the future.
I have had positions in TF funds at Fidelity that I opened at no cost at another brokerage. When I closed that other account, I moved all the positions in kind to Fidelity. In fact, I opened a half dozen funds for free specifically to create open positions at Fidelity should I later choose to invest more than a small amount in them. Of course they were carefully selected funds; I wasn't going to open up dozens of junk funds "just in case".
I've also opened funds directly with the distributor when they were closed at brokerages, for the sole purpose of transferring them to my brokerage account. That can often be an easier process than going through a brokerage.
It's not that I'm insensitive to cost. It's that I'm willing to put in little sweat equity to get something that's both cheap and ultimately convenient. I'm also willing to pay a few bucks for convenience, but not much. Certainly not $75 - I'll do that to get cheaper shares (institutional TF vs. 12b-1 NTF); I won't pay $75 for convenience alone.
Everyone has their own threshold. Yours sounds like $0. But just in case it's a little higher, you might want to check out your ML account's fee schedule for purchases and transfers. Just follow this link (you'll have to log in):
https://olui2.fs.ml.com/RelationshipPricing/CommissionsAndFees.aspx
Cool. Not in the 45y I have been with them, I think, but I know you will find the truth.
>> I have had positions in TF funds at Fidelity that I opened at no cost at another brokerage. When I closed that other account, I moved all the positions in kind to Fidelity. In fact, I opened a half dozen funds for free specifically to create open positions at Fidelity should I later choose to invest more than a small amount in them.
This is cool to know. If you have by any chance jumped on the DSENX bandwagon (I think you would have indicated as much elsewhere), do request reclass if / when it's a lot.
>> It's not that I'm insensitive to cost.
I think all of us fans know that.
>> Certainly not $75 ... I won't pay $75 for convenience alone.
Well, we are in violent agreement, again. And you won't be owning or buying DODIX at Fido, unless you parachute it in, so far as I can tell.
>> Everyone has their own threshold. Yours sounds like $0.
Pretty much, rightly or wrongly
>> But just in case it's a little higher, you might want to check out your ML account's fee schedule for purchases and transfers.
We have been $0 at ML for anything and everything for a long time, what with BoA mortgages and helocs, and ML brokerage accounts, and now all retirement accounts but the one which remains at Fido. And now significant cash rewards for transferring in.
Zero commish makes it too tempting to trade etfs and buy spec / tip stocks, but the deeper into retirement I go the easier it is to constrain my loser (sometimes gain) impulses.
Cool. Not in the 45y I have been with them, I think, but I know you will find the truth."
See link embedded in the quoted post (only in original, not quoted version):
http://www.mymoneyblog.com/fidelity-brokerage-ira-transfer-bonuses.html I've since found a better link that describes the same (now expired) 2017 offer as well as what the page correctly characterizes as a unique offer by Fidelity - to match your IRA contributions (in the 401k percentage sense, not dollar for dollar) for three years. Both were 2017 promotions.
https://investorjunkie.com/11001/fidelity-promotions/