Morn'in Coffee,
For the older group here; do you have a Long Term Health Plan or feel this is not needed?
For the younger group here; do you feel your parents should have a Long Term Health Care Plan, if they do not currently have such a plan.
The direct questions being the ongoing premiums cost to a retiree (retirement savings money reductions) or the possible out-of-pocket costs for uncovered medical expenses to the individual and/or the children of the individual.
I have retained this link in full; as there are 74 comments.
Is it needed, and who is liable?Another link for costs and calcualtor that just hit my pc's inbox. Yes, this is try'in to sell a product; but may be of value.
Costs and CalculatorI thank you all in advance for your insights into this area of money.
Take care,
Catch
Comments
Paying the bill for this insurance hurts, but we do it because of the fact one of us could be left without savings. Secondary would be lessening the emotional burden to our kids if they had to make long term care decisions for us. I don't believe they are (or should be) obligated financially.
The biggest problem I've had with the policy is that when we signed, we were told that our yearly cost for the policy was locked in for the rest of our lives. That is not the case. The insurance company can and did petition the state to raise prices substantially. On the plus side, NY state does rebate some of the cost on your taxes. The states certainly have incentive for us to buy this insurance since the cost of Medicaid comes out of state budgets.
Anyway, that is the reason for us buying LTC.
I find it odd that only people with children face the problem described in the WSJ article. I have always gladly paid taxes that supported other peoples children and the raising of the children, if necessary. There is only so much blood in a turnip. If the children are to take on more and more of their own expenses with a zillion savings accounts (HSA, 401k, 529, ...) and insurance policies like LTC, where does a child save or insure for their parent-risk especially as wages stagnate or go down while everything else goes up?
I don't know what the answer is in our culture but as I grow older I am getting an attitude. The boomers will die even if not given proper feeding and care. So I don't really care any more. However, the laws described need to be abolished. How can a society look at the dying vs the newborn and choose the dying? If society want to make a business of dying, then leave it as a society problem and collect taxes until people wise up. Talking things to death is ridiculous. The people doing the talking want a free lunch to magically appear but most ordinary people can't afford to pay for their own eventual care much less that of their parents. So the lawyers in the litgations will be the only ones collecting in many to most cases. Savings to government programs is probably small.
And yes, LTC policies were orginally underpriced so many people who bought unchangable policies have experienced increases.
Thank you for your input. A related LTC, personal story I read a few weeks ago indicated what you noted. A couple was given a choice of increased premiums (the contract apparently had this "fine" print) or the same premium for now; but decreased benefits as described in the original policy.
'Course, the note I have found most often from the insurance companies is that "they never expected health care costs to be what they are today".
I do understand this, and although our house would not want to pay more in premiums; ultimately an insurance company could choose to not offer a LTC policy, period.
Truly an area, not unlike some other areas that provide the ultimate "catch-22", eh?
Regards,
Catch
Well, you covered a lot of the common ground related to some of my thoughts, too.
I have a genetic family background which indicates that I will retain a nearly full head of hair from now at age 64 and going forward until.....well, until.
My post about the LTC; and similar related areas posted by others here, too; cause too much head scratching for me, on some days. No hair is falling out yet; and perhaps the head scratching is actually a stimulation to the scalp and of benefit. Although, I too become tired of the reasons for the head scratching.
Anna, thank you for your insight and thoughts into this area.
Take care,
Catch
Yes, we do get into the "coin toss" of life events, eh?
No simple and straight-forward answers that will be the same of all of us.
Hey, a non-related question. As you wander about your part of the state, do you have an inclination as to second/vacation homes and pricing in the area? I know some bigger parcels with enough waterfront have recently sold in the GT area, including Leelanau and related; but these were purchases by companies with resort building in mind.
I would also expect some of the high-end properties will still attract the monies from the high networth folks. The question is more to the middle of the range, shoreline properties with existing housing and where this market has, or is trending.
It appears there is still many waterfront properties, mostly with exisiting houses for sale. But, I am not familiar with; nor I have monitored this part of the state over the past 4 years.
The broad question would be as to whether this particular market area (shoreline) has bottomed or still looking for a bottom....or otherwise.
Thank you, Hank.
Take care,
Catch
I did not note the pending court decision; but have thought about this too; and it is indeed a part of whatever comes to light in the coming years.
Thank you for your time and effort with this topic.
Take care,
Catch
At that time, several insurance companies offered policies in which one could pay higher yearly premiums but completely pay for lifetime coverage, with yearly cost-of-living coverage adjustments (increases) in their policies, after ten years. Amazingly, two large insurance companies offered the option of paying a large sum up front in one payment and obtaining lifetime coverage without ANY yearly or additional payments in future years. Needless to say, I jumped at this option and obtained lifetime LTC coverage with one large payment. Within two years, the insurance companies realized that these policies were disadvantageous and discontinued them so that they would have the option of increasing yearly premiums to keep pace with rising medical costs.
One important consideration for anyone considering LTC insurance policies ---- be certain that the insurance company you stake a policy with has the highest financial ratings for stability and solvency from ratings companies such as A.M. Best, S&P, Moody's etc. If your insurance company folds in the next decade or two before you actually need to use your LTC policy you are up a creek without a paddle and all of the money you have put into the policy is wasted. When I evaluated nearly ten LTC policies from major insurers over a decade ago, the companies which had the highest ratings were GE Capital Assurance, John Hancock and Allianz of Germany (highest rated at that time).
My personal opinion is that LTC insurance is essential and you are one accident or misfortune away from unexpectedly requiring a lifetime of home care assistance, residence in an assisted living facility or nursing home and without this coverage you will quickly be wiped out financially, then forced to live in a facility not of your choosing based upon what Medicaid coverage will provide for. If I am wrong about this, please correct me, but I believe this is THE most important form of insurance for one's retirement years.
My takeaway is that LTC costs are so poorly understood (including by insurers), and generally so high, that it is not a good value at this time - private or public.
Sebelius' letter (10/14/2011) to Boehner, declining to implement LTC:
On picking a high quality stable insurance company, in New York state we have something called an insurance partnership. This means that the insurance partnership would pick up your policy in the case your insurance company went bankrupt. This is really nice added protection set up by the state.
Thanks for mentioning Partnership for Long Term Care. I first learned about it on usenet:misc.invest.financial-plan. Here's the NYS version. At least that's what I think you're talking about.
It's not quite what you're describing, though I still think it's a great deal. This was a program originally offered in four states (NY, Calif. Conn., Indiana), but since the mid 90s has gone nationwide. The original idea in the NY version was that if you purchased a private LTC policy from a participating insurer, that covered something like three years (the typical max time spent using LTC), then the state's Medicaid would pick up the costs once the insurance ran out. You would not need to spend down any money to qualify for the Medicaid benefit (this was called "total asset protection"). The other states' version said that you didn't have to spend down to zero to qualify for Medicaid - you could keep however much money as you were covered for by the insurance ("dollar for dollar"). Since the mid-90s, some states have adopted both versions.
Beachfront properties in MI? If only Ann Arbor had such property!
"The individual mandate exempts U.S. citizens living abroad (see PPACA § 1501 (adding Internal Revenue Code (“IRC”) § 5000A(f)(4)))".
http://www.ciab.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2102
If you want the gory text itself, you'll find it on pdf p. 318 of this rendering of Title I of the ACA: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/authorities/title/i-quality-affordable-health-care.pdf
who knows if or when it will be "complusatory". I'm not worried either way.
Also, I think chances are good that as the plan is debated over the course of the election campaign, public opinion will shift in its favor. (Looks like both candidates will have supported similar HC plans - one at the state level:-)
It appears the best final solution will be a plan where one simply falls off a roof.......
Ironic that the low interest rates that are saving part of the financial industry (banks) are killing another part of the financial industry (insurers, or at least part of their business).
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-28/genworth-bets-on-long-term-care-as-insurers-flee-market.html