Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Support MFO
Donate through PayPal
Once Again, A Government 'Improvement' Makes Things Exponentially Worse!
Well, I was ahead of you on this one. About a year ago started to make a listing of the different kinds of bulbs that we use, both in the SF house and the Russian River weekend house. Soon got to the point where I had to make a database to keep track of the many, many different types, styles, wattages, and different different base types of bulbs that we use, how many spares we have, and where they are located. A good many of those bulbs are on dimmers, so at this point only incandescents will work properly. Have stocked up on every type of incandescent that we use.
One aspect of the so-called "energy waste" of incandescent bulbs is the completely unwarranted assumption that all of the heat produced by this type of bulb is "waste". Perhaps in very hot weather this may be true, but during the cooler months every bit of that heat produced by incandescent lamps is heat that the furnace does not have to supply. You never hear that aspect taken into account.
Not going to take a position on the wind farm project, but I can tell you that there are large installations of this type in the North Sea, so perhaps there are engineering techniques that protect the steel from the salt corrosion. Also there have been steel transmission towers running across San Francisco Bay for many, many years now, and corrosion does not seem to be a major problem on those, as many of them have been in service for well over 50 years.
Re those transmission towers... on the other hand, those towers belong to Pacific Gas and Electric Co, and as you probably are aware, their maintenance record on the gas system leaves something to be desired...
You are quite right with respect to the very low current drain of LEDs. I also think that they will replace CFLs within a few years. The main problem with the LEDs right now seems to be finding a way to generate a "warm-white" color spectrum which will be close to the incandescent spectrum. Not sure about the dimming issue though... I have read that the new ones are dimmable, and regular LEDS are also somewhat dimmable by lowering the applied voltage, but the dimming range seems very compressed- not much like an incandescent. I will be quite surprised if they don't solve these issues though. You've probably noticed that almost all of the traffic signal fixtures have replaced the incandescent bulbs with LED arrays, and those seem to be working out very well.
The representative from my state is purposefully distorting some of the facts. What's new?
First Incandescent bulbs are not banned. The new requirement is that they will be more efficient. There are already some more efficient incandescent bulbs. If CFL is not your thing, this is a good alternative.
Secondly, as Maurice has indicated there are even better technologies. The LED bulbs has even less energy consumption than CFLs and last the longest and does not contain the negative issues of the CFL and could be readily dimmed if required.
So, the argument is an argument for the sake of argument.
When I'm forced to retire because I'm too old or can't get a job, I will live in the dark. What I will not do is feel happy I'm saving more money because I have my incandescent bulb turned off instead of my LED one or that I didn't buy the more expensive bulb because it'll be off see?
Almost want to read another congressman's indiscretions on facebook. Some news we have these days...
Hey, if they CFLs are saving me money . . . first I concur that LED is where we're headed. 2nd, the industry had dragged their miserable rears for decades to do anything for lighting, so perhaps the mandate did well in forcing them to innovate.
Note that with CFLs you can now adjust the lighting in different areas for different reasons. You can buy whatever part of the light spectrum you wish - with the lower numbers giving you a more yellow cast and high numbers a bluish. Family room in a warm color while your baths in more daylight color.
Where they can also make an impact is in interior decorating and design where you can get a LOT more light into a socket with CFLs than incandescents AND that can lead to choosing a different light fixture AND even different paint colors. [been there done that in my stairwell].
And to VF - indeed. How much legislative time at both the state and federal levels, has been devoted to repealing or negating this policy? How much air time? Good God, there are real isssues and these dirtballs that are in office dink around with trivia.
Hi there ron- I certainly didn't mean to come across as anti-CFL. We have, in fact, replaced incandescent with CFL wherever possible. The newer CFLs are much improved in their color spectrum output and their ability to start reasonably quickly in colder temperatures. That is, "colder" by CA standards, not MI standards. "Cold" here starts at about 60. The main problem that we have is that a large number of our lighting circuits are dimmer controlled, and they really haven't solved that one yet.
Reply to @rono: If there's a way to make them feel it is always all the way UP there, that would be perfect. I need all of my foot back. Need to walk to walmart so I can save on gasoline to buy the LED bulb I will not actually turn ON
Can we give Congress something else to worry about?
Comments
One aspect of the so-called "energy waste" of incandescent bulbs is the completely unwarranted assumption that all of the heat produced by this type of bulb is "waste". Perhaps in very hot weather this may be true, but during the cooler months every bit of that heat produced by incandescent lamps is heat that the furnace does not have to supply. You never hear that aspect taken into account.
Not going to take a position on the wind farm project, but I can tell you that there are large installations of this type in the North Sea, so perhaps there are engineering techniques that protect the steel from the salt corrosion. Also there have been steel transmission towers running across San Francisco Bay for many, many years now, and corrosion does not seem to be a major problem on those, as many of them have been in service for well over 50 years.
First Incandescent bulbs are not banned. The new requirement is that they will be more efficient. There are already some more efficient incandescent bulbs. If CFL is not your thing, this is a good alternative.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/business/energy-environment/06bulbs.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/29/idUS273367407320110429
Secondly, as Maurice has indicated there are even better technologies. The LED bulbs has even less energy consumption than CFLs and last the longest and does not contain the negative issues of the CFL and could be readily dimmed if required.
So, the argument is an argument for the sake of argument.
When I'm forced to retire because I'm too old or can't get a job, I will live in the dark. What I will not do is feel happy I'm saving more money because I have my incandescent bulb turned off instead of my LED one or that I didn't buy the more expensive bulb because it'll be off see?
Almost want to read another congressman's indiscretions on facebook. Some news we have these days...
Hey, if they CFLs are saving me money . . . first I concur that LED is where we're headed. 2nd, the industry had dragged their miserable rears for decades to do anything for lighting, so perhaps the mandate did well in forcing them to innovate.
Note that with CFLs you can now adjust the lighting in different areas for different reasons. You can buy whatever part of the light spectrum you wish - with the lower numbers giving you a more yellow cast and high numbers a bluish. Family room in a warm color while your baths in more daylight color.
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls_color
Where they can also make an impact is in interior decorating and design where you can get a LOT more light into a socket with CFLs than incandescents AND that can lead to choosing a different light fixture AND even different paint colors. [been there done that in my stairwell].
And to VF - indeed. How much legislative time at both the state and federal levels, has been devoted to repealing or negating this policy? How much air time? Good God, there are real isssues and these dirtballs that are in office dink around with trivia.
peace,
rono
Take care- OJ
Nopers, you're correct. I just went thru that with a light over a breakfast nook table - no dimmer. Rats.
I'm looking forward to the LEDs and further advances. feh. Sometimes, you've got to put your foot halfway up their asses to get them to do anything.
peace,
rono
So, for true dimmable bulbs you either need new efficient (halogen) incandescent bulbs or LED bulbs.
Can we give Congress something else to worry about?