Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
With apologies to OJ, Jerry and the others, Ted was the first to note that David's June Commentary was posted. I'm afraid my initial tongue-in-cheek remark may have been inappropriate or misinterpreted. It was intended to induce others to read this excellent commentary.
I'm a bit surprised at the seeming surprise David's cautionary market outlook seems to have generated. Regular readers of his monthly commentaries know that he has long voiced skepticism (I think well founded) ) about the durability of the bull market and valuations in general. If you also read Ed Studzinski's regular comments, he makes David look like a lotus eating optimist. (As most here know, Ed co-managed the Oakmark Equity and Income Fund for many years, turning out impressive results.)
I don't think MFO participants have been completely "in the dark" on the valuation issue or to the fact that stock markets can and sometimes do drop precipitously (25+% overnight) or flounder for incredibly long periods, as measured in years or decades. That's the risk you take for being in equities. If you read JohnChism's thread about "Bullish or Bearish" you'll find some of the same concerns David has recently raised - though certainly not as thoroughly explored or eloquently stated as only David can do.
To refresh readers' memories, I've clipped a few morsels from some of David's Commentaries dating back to November, 2013. Please read the commentaries in full, as they are easily retrievable on the MFO website. Apologies to David if, in pulling these out of context, I altered the meaning, omitted pertinent context, or changed the emphasis of any. There was no intent to do so.
Regards -
November 1, 2013: "... a market that tacks on 29% in a year makes it easy to think of investing as fun and funny again. Now if only that popular sentiment could be reconciled with the fact that a bunch of very disciplined, very successful managers are quietly selling down their stocks and building their cash reserves again."
December 1, 2013: "Small investors and great institutions alike are partaking in one of the market’s perennial ceremonies: placing your investments atop an ever-taller pile of dried kindling and split logs. All of the folks who hated stocks when they were cheap are desperate to buy them now that they’re expensive...We have one word for you: Don’t."
January 1, 2014: If you’re looking for a shortcut to finding absolute value investors today, it’s a safe bet you’ll find them atop the “%age portfolio (invested in) cash” list ...They are, in short, the guys you’re now railing against"
February 1, 2014: "It makes you wonder how ready we are for the inevitable sharp correction that many are predicting and few are expecting."
March 1, 2014: "It’s not a question of whether it’s coming. It’s just a question of whether you’ve been preparing intelligently."
April 1, 2014: "Some (money managers) ... are calling the alarm; others stoically endure that leaden feeling in the pit of their stomachs that comes from knowing they’ve seen this show before and it never ends well."
June 1, 2014: ... all of this risk-chasing means that it’s Time to Worry About Stock Market Bubbles."
September 1, 2014: "Somewhere in the background, Putin threatens war, the market threatens a swoon, horrible diseases spread, politicians debate who among them is the most dysfunctional ..."
February 1, 2015: "The good folks at Leuthold foresee a market decline of 30%, likely some time in 2015 or 2016 and likely sooner rather than later. Professor Studzinski suspects that they’re starry-eyed optimists."
April 1, 2015: "(Sooner) ... Or later. That is, the stock market is going to crash. I don’t really know when. Okay, fine: I haven’t got an earthly clue. Then again, neither does anyone else."
May 1, 2015: "For investors too summer holds promise, for days away and for markets unhinged. Perhaps thinking a bit ahead while the hinges remain intact might be a prudent course ..."
The review of the JOHCM International Select Fund (JOHAX/JOHIX) was appreciated. It did a good job of fleshing out some of the factors that recently caused me to make a token investment in that fund within my "mad money" account. (I have had my eye open for an independent minded large cap foreign growth fund that is comfortable with making fairly heavy sector bets.) Now that I have some $'s invested, I will watch it more closely. If it remains interesting, I may at some point trade it in for a somewhat larger investment in JOGEX as a way to increase that dimension globally within my portfolio.
With apologies to OJ, Jerry and the others, Ted was the first to note that David's June Commentary was posted. I'm afraid my initial tongue-in-cheek remark may have been inappropriate or misinterpreted. It was intended to induce others to read this excellent commentary.
I'm a bit surprised at the seeming surprise David's cautionary market outlook seems to have generated. Regular readers of his monthly commentaries know that he has long voiced skepticism (I think well founded) ) about the durability of the bull market and valuations in general. If you also read Ed Studzinski's regular comments, he makes David look like a lotus eating optimist. (As most here know, Ed co-managed the Oakmark Equity and Income Fund for many years, turning out impressive results.)
I don't think MFO participants have been completely "in the dark" on the valuation issue or to the fact that stock markets can and sometimes do drop precipitously (25+% overnight) or flounder for incredibly long periods, as measured in years or decades. That's the risk you take for being in equities. If you read JohnChism's thread about "Bullish or Bearish" you'll find some of the same concerns David has recently raised - though certainly not as thoroughly explored or eloquently stated as only David can do.
To refresh readers' memories, I've clipped a few morsels from some of David's Commentaries dating back to November, 2013. Please read the commentaries in full, as they are easily retrievable on the MFO website. Apologies to David if, in pulling these out of context, I altered the meaning, omitted pertinent context, or changed the emphasis of any. There was no intent to do so.
Regards -
November 1, 2013: "... a market that tacks on 29% in a year makes it easy to think of investing as fun and funny again. Now if only that popular sentiment could be reconciled with the fact that a bunch of very disciplined, very successful managers are quietly selling down their stocks and building their cash reserves again."
December 1, 2013: "Small investors and great institutions alike are partaking in one of the market’s perennial ceremonies: placing your investments atop an ever-taller pile of dried kindling and split logs. All of the folks who hated stocks when they were cheap are desperate to buy them now that they’re expensive...We have one word for you: Don’t."
January 1, 2014: If you’re looking for a shortcut to finding absolute value investors today, it’s a safe bet you’ll find them atop the “%age portfolio (invested in) cash” list ...They are, in short, the guys you’re now railing against"
February 1, 2014: "It makes you wonder how ready we are for the inevitable sharp correction that many are predicting and few are expecting."
March 1, 2014: "It’s not a question of whether it’s coming. It’s just a question of whether you’ve been preparing intelligently."
April 1, 2014: "Some (money managers) ... are calling the alarm; others stoically endure that leaden feeling in the pit of their stomachs that comes from knowing they’ve seen this show before and it never ends well."
June 1, 2014: ... all of this risk-chasing means that it’s Time to Worry About Stock Market Bubbles."
September 1, 2014: "Somewhere in the background, Putin threatens war, the market threatens a swoon, horrible diseases spread, politicians debate who among them is the most dysfunctional ..."
February 1, 2015: "The good folks at Leuthold foresee a market decline of 30%, likely some time in 2015 or 2016 and likely sooner rather than later. Professor Studzinski suspects that they’re starry-eyed optimists."
April 1, 2015: "(Sooner) ... Or later. That is, the stock market is going to crash. I don’t really know when. Okay, fine: I haven’t got an earthly clue. Then again, neither does anyone else."
May 1, 2015: "For investors too summer holds promise, for days away and for markets unhinged. Perhaps thinking a bit ahead while the hinges remain intact might be a prudent course ..."
Thanks Hank, not because I don't respect him, but I rarely have read any of David's monthly commentaries. So are you saying he is a persistent prophet of pessimism??? I sure would have hated to have missed 2014 as that year pretty much sealed my retirement.
I guess I thought he was early then but might not be now. Also while Hank posted snippets from the pat I don't recall David's commentary ever being quite as bearish as this months.
@hank, The snippets show that David has had an air of caution in recent history but as@jerry points out, he was exceptionally bearish this month. When I first read this months commentary, the first thing I thought was that he is very cautious going forward in this market.
(nods) Confusion makes me cautious. I'm really not fretting near so much about valuations per se as about the fact that I seem to hear more worry from more insiders whose judgment I respect. Notions of systemic instability keep cropping up in their conversations and I'm just sort of struggling to figure out what it all means.
On whole, I'd rather leave folks feeling cautious and vigilant than blithe. There are just too many people who have an institutional obligation to downplay problems and the budgets to be heard. If it's vox clamantis in deserto, so be it.
"Stock prices have risen rapidly over the past six years or so, but they were also severely depressed during and just after the financial crisis. Arguably, the Fed's actions have not led to permanent increases in stock prices, but instead have returned them to trend. To illustrate: From the end of the 2001 recession (2001:q4) through the pre-crisis business cycle peak (2007:q4), the S&P 500 stock price index grew by about 1.2 percent a quarter. If the index had grown at that same rate from the fourth quarter of 2007 on, it would have averaged about 2123 in the first quarter of this year; its actual value was 2063, a little below that. There are of course many ways to calculate the "normal" level of stock prices, but most would lead to a similar conclusion." - Ben Bernanke
Comments
(But, sounds like David attended better parties in HS than I did)
I'm a bit surprised at the seeming surprise David's cautionary market outlook seems to have generated. Regular readers of his monthly commentaries know that he has long voiced skepticism (I think well founded) ) about the durability of the bull market and valuations in general. If you also read Ed Studzinski's regular comments, he makes David look like a lotus eating optimist. (As most here know, Ed co-managed the Oakmark Equity and Income Fund for many years, turning out impressive results.)
I don't think MFO participants have been completely "in the dark" on the valuation issue or to the fact that stock markets can and sometimes do drop precipitously (25+% overnight) or flounder for incredibly long periods, as measured in years or decades. That's the risk you take for being in equities. If you read JohnChism's thread about "Bullish or Bearish" you'll find some of the same concerns David has recently raised - though certainly not as thoroughly explored or eloquently stated as only David can do.
To refresh readers' memories, I've clipped a few morsels from some of David's Commentaries dating back to November, 2013. Please read the commentaries in full, as they are easily retrievable on the MFO website. Apologies to David if, in pulling these out of context, I altered the meaning, omitted pertinent context, or changed the emphasis of any. There was no intent to do so.
Regards
-
November 1, 2013: "... a market that tacks on 29% in a year makes it easy to think of investing as fun and funny again. Now if only that popular sentiment could be reconciled with the fact that a bunch of very disciplined, very successful managers are quietly selling down their stocks and building their cash reserves again."
December 1, 2013: "Small investors and great institutions alike are partaking in one of the market’s perennial ceremonies: placing your investments atop an ever-taller pile of dried kindling and split logs. All of the folks who hated stocks when they were cheap are desperate to buy them now that they’re expensive...We have one word for you: Don’t."
January 1, 2014: If you’re looking for a shortcut to finding absolute value investors today, it’s a safe bet you’ll find them atop the “%age portfolio (invested in) cash” list ...They are, in short, the guys you’re now railing against"
February 1, 2014: "It makes you wonder how ready we are for the inevitable sharp correction that many are predicting and few are expecting."
March 1, 2014: "It’s not a question of whether it’s coming. It’s just a question of whether you’ve been preparing intelligently."
April 1, 2014: "Some (money managers) ... are calling the alarm; others stoically endure that leaden feeling in the pit of their stomachs that comes from knowing they’ve seen this show before and it never ends well."
June 1, 2014: ... all of this risk-chasing means that it’s Time to Worry About Stock Market Bubbles."
September 1, 2014: "Somewhere in the background, Putin threatens war, the market threatens a swoon, horrible diseases spread, politicians debate who among them is the most dysfunctional ..."
February 1, 2015: "The good folks at Leuthold foresee a market decline of 30%, likely some time in 2015 or 2016 and likely sooner rather than later. Professor Studzinski suspects that they’re starry-eyed optimists."
April 1, 2015: "(Sooner) ... Or later. That is, the stock market is going to crash. I don’t really know when. Okay, fine: I haven’t got an earthly clue. Then again, neither does anyone else."
May 1, 2015: "For investors too summer holds promise, for days away and for markets unhinged. Perhaps thinking a bit ahead while the hinges remain intact might be a prudent course ..."
Thanks Hank, not because I don't respect him, but I rarely have read any of David's monthly commentaries. So are you saying he is a persistent prophet of pessimism???
I sure would have hated to have missed 2014 as that year pretty much sealed my retirement.
On whole, I'd rather leave folks feeling cautious and vigilant than blithe. There are just too many people who have an institutional obligation to downplay problems and the budgets to be heard. If it's vox clamantis in deserto, so be it.
Off for a long walk before settling in.
David