Just for the heck-of-it.....PTTRX vs JUCIX...a work in progress...

catch22

---Jan 10, 2015
PTTRX is at +1.5% for 3 months and +.97% YTD.
JUCIX is at -.77% for 3 months and -.29% YTD.
---Jan 17, 2015
PTTRX is at +.58% for current week and +1.56% YTD.
JUCIX is at -.39% for current week and -.68% YTD.
---Jan 30, 2015
PTTRX is at +2.62% YTD
JUCIX is at +.28 YTD


Should be a fun show going forward; and perhaps from some of those investors large and small amounts, who took their monies and ran elsewhere.....based upon ????? Did they really believe that the current day PIMCO was an all inclusive function of one man? I would bet my invested monies in PIMIX that Mr. G seldom had any input into the fund operation on a daily basis.

In theory, then; we should be able to see and understand the true wisdom and/or skills of Mr. Gross, if he is the one who is pushing the investment area buttons for this new and reworked bond fund at Janus.

Summary =: many here are much brighter than those whose job it is to have others money entrusted to them to manage. Sadly, a pretty scary thought.


Bill Gross's new home fund

JohnChisum

One thing for sure, the people that invest in the new fund must surely know what they are investing in, or do they?

From a earlier thread here on MFO, it looks like derivatives of the intention the fund wants, not the actual products. http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/18192/janus-chairman-didn-t-know-details-of-gross-s-investment#latest

Fascinating thread catch22.

catch22

@JohnChisum
I happened to view this story at Bloomberg tv, when revealed. I thought at the time that the chairman took a strange path of observation about "things".
Unless forced by other circumstances (legal?), the chairman didn't do any favors for the company with his comments. I find no compelling reason for me to want to follow Mr. Gross to Janus and company. Many other fine bond area funds, be they active or passive managed, exist.

JohnChisum

@catch22, Exactly. There are many fine bond funds out there. I would not have invested in Gross's Total Bond because of the size to begin with, but the story of the millions leaving Pimco to follow Bill to Janus is confounding. They would have been better to stay at Pimco.

In the fullness of time we will know the end story.

Additional: there is a story over on WSJ Moneybeat that talks about this same issue. The author questions the response of the Janus chairman regarding where the money came from. Some alarm bells going off and unfortunately at a place where they have rung before. I would post the link but you have to be a subscriber. It is here. http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-MBB-31685?ref=/blogs/moneybeat

catch22

@JohnChisum
Thank you for the link. It did open without the normal "go away" block.
An interesting write about the company, Janus.

JohnChisum

That's good. One thing I learned from the article was the Soros infusion. I didn't know about that and I have very a negative perception of Soros.

I knew a friend who invested greatly in Janus funds. When the shenanigans started to come to light I mentioned to her that she might start looking elsewhere. She had been treated well at Janus so she stayed put and lost a substantial amount of money.

Her personal experience with the company overrode the reality of the situation.

catch22

First page numbers updated.
Hoping all those who ran away from PTTRX and related classes, found a better bond home.....................ah, the maddness of some crowds, eh?
I'll be good and give this fund some time. The new return spread is only 2.24%. They still have the rest of the year to make up the difference.
Catch

hank

catch22 said:

"Summary = many here are much brighter than those whose job it is to have others money entrusted to them to manage. Sadly, a pretty scary thought."
---
I can't categorically refute your claim Catch, but am not in agreement either. I'll allow that there's many different types of intelligence ("brightness" as you say), including that sometimes called "common sense" - or "horse sense" as Dad put it.

What you may be overlooking is that there's a big difference between being intelligent and being successful in any given endeavor - in this case running a mutual fund. John Hussman is perhaps the most glaring example - a highly intelligent man by most accounts. While I find Gross's writings to exhibit a high degree of literacy and intelligence, that doesn't mean you should send him your money.

One reason I enjoy the discussions at MFO is that there appears a high level of intelligence on both on the part of those who post as well as most of the financial luminaries who come under discussion. I'd be careful about ascribing a higher level of intelligence to one side or the other.

All this just: IMHO

Regards

Sven

@John,

I knew a friend who invested greatly in Janus funds. When the shenanigans started to come to light I mentioned to her that she might start looking elsewhere. She had been treated well at Janus so she stayed put and lost a substantial amount of money.

Her personal experience with the company overrode the reality of the situation.

Back then I had substantial investment with Janus through my 401k. When Janus and other firms were identified to be involved in the infamous scandal, I left even though I had profited through Janus Worldwide fund. The rest is history as Janus never recovers. It is questionable that Gross's new fund will out-perform Pimco Total Return without the same level of analyst support he had. Janus is never known to be a decent bond shop.

catch22

JUCIX still a work in progress, eh?

---Jan 10, 2015
PTTRX is at +1.5% for 3 months and +.97% YTD.
JUCIX is at -.77% for 3 months and -.29% YTD.
---Jan 17, 2015
PTTRX is at +.58% for current week and +1.56% YTD.
JUCIX is at -.39% for current week and -.68% YTD.
---Jan 30, 2015
PTTRX is at +2.62% YTD
JUCIX is at +.28 YTD