PIMCO

MaxBialystock

I hold El Erian in high regard. He knows what he's talking about. Just in the last 30 minutes or so, though, I was cruising through the M* fund snapshots of a good number of PIMCO funds. For one thing, I can't find an "Investor" class aimed at individual, retail investors, only Institutional Class, requiring $1M to get in. Also, the turnover ratios turn me away. I know this fund family has a solid reputation, but all of that churning, in-and-out, constantly, makes my head spin. Anyone see anything on the PIMCO webpage I might be missing? They do not want to deal with retail folks directly, like you and me? And why wouldn't that turnover ratio, so often over 100% or even 200% in those funds, scare the rest of you---who have money in PIMCO--- drive you away, or steer you clear in the first place?

catch22

Howdy Max,

What funds are you looking for at Pimco?

Example: Total Return Bond fund
PTTRX is institutional, $1 million, and ER of .45
PTTDX is retail version, $1,000 minimum and ER of .75

All of these various classes used to be identified at Pimco's web site. As you search for PTTRX or click upon total return bond fund and there used to be a drop down menu to select/show various share classes.

To the best of my knowledge, all of the Pimco institutional classes have regular retail for lower minimums and you don't need to go through an advisor, etc.

Who are you now using for you IRA account....as in Fidelity, etc.? I note Fido as this is our main and original IRA's location. All of the common Pimco funds are available there for the various share classes.

Take care,
Catch

David_Snowball

For what it's worth, you need to look for "D" class shares and you need to have a brokerage (Schwab, Scottrade ...) account. PIMCO does not sell directly to the public, but Scottrade (which I mention just because I have an account there) has dozens of "D" class PIMCO funds which are both no-load and NTF. I have not tried to buy them, but Scottrade lists the minimum at $100.

David

msf

Regarding high turnover, M* asserts "With bond funds, though, quite often managers employ cash-management strategies that inflate turnover rates. It's not uncommon to see turnover rates of 300% or more, even in funds that aren't particularly aggressive."

I have no idea what "cash management strategies" they're talking about, but there you have it.

MaxBialystock

Thanks, you guys.I had no particular funds in mind, though I knew I was NOT looking for equities. PIMCO has just recently added some equity funds to its lineup, I understand. I STILL do not use a platform like Fido or Scottrade or Schwab or E-Trade. What I own, I have purchased retail, directly through the fund houses. My IRA was in TAVIX for several years, but just about the time they expanded into different classes of shares, I pulled out the whole wad and put it in MAPIX. It's a TRADITIONAL IRA. And what I'd been holding in an old Royce 403b until last July is now in a TRP Rollover IRA, ALL of it at the moment in PREMX. What I'm looking to do pretty soon, after my ducks get lined-up in a neat row, is to put some more money into a different bond fund. MWHYX or MWTRX are under serious consideration. I realize it's something of a contradiction for me to be with TRP, given my aversion to huge, big, gigantic, monstrously large fund-houses, but I remained there after rolling-over a 403b. I had the 403b there in TRP in the first place just because at the time, available options for 403b accounts were shrinking. TRP was among them, and to my mind, better than some others. The entire 403b thing has always been self-directed by me, myself and I. So yes, on that score, I've been luckier than most, who must choose from among funds that charge a load and carry high fees---because their 403b administrator is clueless about things...

57, semi-retired, I filed for reduced retirement checks, to start after the New Year. My new job is likewise with another nonprofit. (Church work, prior.) And the income is classified as NON-taxable, though the gross amount will never make me rich. I will forever be grateful for the information, evaluations and commentary I've discovered here with this savvy bunch of fellow fund investors. When some more expected inheritance money finally comes my way from auntie's executor, I will surely not squander it on idiotic schemes. And that's all YOUR fault, y'all.

scott

Pimco's significant use of derivatives may also contribute to turnover. Pimco Unconstrained, for example, has about a 1000% turnover, last I looked. In terms of the funds, Pimco's "D" shares are no min/NTF at Ameritrade. Ameritrade also has some "admin" class shares for NTF/no min, as well.

catch22

Howdy Mr. Max,

You noted, " And what I'd been holding in an old Royce 403b until last July is now in a TRP Rollover IRA, ALL of it at the moment in PREMX. What I'm looking to do pretty soon, after my ducks get lined-up in a neat row, is to put some more money into a different bond fund. MWHYX or MWTRX are under serious consideration. I realize it's something of a contradiction for me to be with TRP, given my aversion to huge, big, gigantic, monstrously large fund-houses."

If you choose to have investment flexibility, you need to be with an established vendor; regardless of your view of these big houses.

We have been with Fidelity since 1978 when we first placed monies into a traditional IRA. At the time, the big retail houses were charging front load fees in the area of 5-8% for the honor of doing business with them and their mutual funds. Fidelity and Vanguard changed this world with their low fees; and I thank them to this day for the foresight.

Anyhoo..........I am not familiar with TRPrice, but your rollover may already be part of a "brokerage style" IRA account. At Fidelity, one may move existing monies to an IRA brokerage acct and all that happens is that one's existing fund investments move to the new acct., which is only a change in the acct. number; BUT with the benefit, that if one chooses to move outside of the Fido funds, one may choose from the 1,000's of other fund families that are available via Fido.

If your TRPrice IRA has this method set in place, you may travel your monies where you choose, based upon TRP's choices available. It the acct. does not have this feature set in place, I will presume a phone call could change all of this.

Take care,
Catch

fundalarm

Reply to @msf: short term bills? these are often used for collateral or just as cash parking tool. they are rolled very often.

TheShadow

TDA offers many Pimco "I" shares for $49.99 with no minimum in a non-taxable account. If you are a former TOS account holder, now TDA account holder, I believe you can purchase Pimco "I" shares for $15.00, (TDA's flat fee for former TOS acount holders), in a non-taxable account.

AndyJ

Also, you can get the cheaper Pimco I-shares at Vanguard for $25k minimum and a TF: $20 (both ways, to buy and to sell) if you have $50k or more at Vang. - $35, I think it is, if you have less $ there.

I've trial-owned three OEFs and an ETF of Pimco's thru Vanguard, but, ya know, I have to admit, as much as I like to follow Pimco's outlook thru interviews with and articles by Gross and El-Erian, I've never been satisfied enough with their funds to keep them long term.

msf

Reply to @fundalarm:
Good speculation, but what about this use of short term bills is unique to bond funds. To put it another way, why don't equity funds, which also have to deal with cash flows show similar turnover ratios? (These days, dividend-oriented funds can get as much cash from the securities portfolios as do bond funds.)

fundalarm

Reply to @msf: pimco uses a lot of derivatives -- leveraged plays on different exposures. Whether they are in the form of swaps or futures, they require collateral. Collateral is always "cash or cash equivalents or treasurys" the latter is usually in the form of bills. for futures, which require daily mark to market, collateral is moved daily -- hence the perceived "turnover". Our shop manages some funds in a similar fashion.

fundalarm

Reply to @msf: in addition, equity funds also have some of this, but not nearly to the same extend. If we get a lot of cash flows late in the day and it's too late to invest in individual securities, we "equitize" the target exposure and purchase futures (EAFE, S&P e-minis, etc). The following day the futures are replaced with the physicals. But for equity funds, it is just dealing with the daily cash flows. While the fixed income funds often involve derivatives which in turn require collateral.

MaxBialystock

I appreciate the added input. Thanks for contributing to the conversation, all. I suppose it might be of benefit for me to mention that I've already decided to follow the KISS principle when it comes to investing. "Keep It SIMPLE, Stupid!" I don't want to have to worry about transaction fees, minimums, inactivity fees, frequent trading penalties, nonsense extortion fees, or anything else--- because I don't use puts and calls, nor derivatives nor anything exotic. Along the way, I've learned not to hang on too long to a fund. When I recycled the money that was in real estate funds back in '08 or so, the best I can say about the result is that I didn't LOSE any money. My own outlook, my "default setting," is always LONG. If the Managers of the funds I own choose to "short" a position, I leave that to them. And finally: going forward, I expect that my portfolio will continue to hold so FEW funds that the advantages of using a broker-dealer platform will not be a net-positive. "Six of one, half a dozen of another."

[Deleted User]

You can always look at the Harbor Funds family. Many funds are sub-advised by PIMCO.