Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

    Support MFO

  • Donate through PayPal

wifey's

403b. So new, she tells me she's not vested yet. The total is under $1,000.00 still. Her quarterly statement--- the very first one, ever--- came yesterday. It shows -.33 admin fee taken...OK.

This stupid--- as I mentioned before--- 403b is wrapped in an annuity. The statement is EIGHTEEN PAGES. More than half of it is red-tape bullshit legalese. The next-to-last page spells out that there will be more money taken from the account if the account holds funds from more than one investment provider (fund house?) in order to create an aggregate form 5500 for the IRS. That fee will be $500.00.

*But in this 403b, there is only one, single fund (NAESX) so that additional fee doesn't apply.
....Mysteriously, under "Individual Expenses," on the very last page it shows:

ACTIVITY TYPE: Return of Excess Administration $40.00
ACTIVITY TYPE: Special Mailing $20.00

The plan's return of Excess Fee will be paid by the Plan Sponsor. (The hospital where she works???? The plan Administrator, I'm figuring, is Mass Mutual.) The change will take effect on Sept. 1st, 2014 and will apply prospectively only.
*********************************
Anyone care to TRANSLATE this crap? I think I almost get it. But "almost" works only if you're playing at horseshoes. Thanks.

Comments

  • Crash: Did you try talking to anyone in HR to see if they can answer your questions?
    Derf
  • Hi, Derf. They refuse to talk to me. It's my wife's account. They direct me to MassMutual. I did that junk before --- the whole "getting passed around" thing. I got nowhere. And my wife just doesn't care enough to pursue it. Her English isn't wonderful. For most things, it's all fine, and between herself and whomever she may be talking to, they can communicate. But it is impossible for her to be precise.
  • edited July 2014
    "They refuse to talk to me. It's my wife's account"

    If you do a three way call, with your wife on the line, then they'll probably talk with you, with her giving them the permission to do so.
  • OK, I'll try.
  • Life insurance companies live off of these annuities. When she retires they will want to roll it over into another annuity. More money for them. Hopefully that hospital gets enough feedback from employees that they expand their offerings. I went thru the same thing years ago.

    Max out your IRA's in the meantime.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • "Right now your wife may not have an interest, because she is focused on the here and now. As the 403 grows, she may begin to understand the significance of this type of compensation, and gain a greater interest."

    Well said, Maurice. Crash, do your best to help her understand that it's up to you two to take care of yourselves when you are older, and that it's critically important that you start right now. Above all, avoid all possible debt!
  • Sorry but she's your legally wedded wife she can file form giving you control and they HAVE to talk to you. If spouse with account dies, what happens. They can't talk to you? Ridiculous.

    Do you think my better half even knows what's in her 401k? I wonder if she knows she has one. I think I explained to her what it is once, but I'm sure she thinks its only something other people worry about.

    On another note, I was in situation like this once where crooked 401k manager provided only VIP products in 401k. I was working for a small company with 20 people then. I held a meeting explained what was happening and we moved the account to Vanguard. I don't work for that company anymore, but some people now think I'm a genius. I just tell them I'm not crooked.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Yes, actually that's pretty common, in our experience.
  • Maurice, Old_Joe, my point is if one fills a form, sends in some documentation, whatever proving who one is, they HAVE to engage.

    Some things in life are stupid. We just have to accept and bypass them. The situation poster is describing is getting worse because things are getting lost in translation. JMHO.
  • Life insurance companies live off of these annuities. When she retires they will want to roll it over into another annuity. More money for them. Hopefully that hospital gets enough feedback from employees that they expand their offerings. I went thru the same thing years ago.

    Max out your IRA's in the meantime.

    Yes. All that's in that 403b is company money. We are adding to IRAs instead, yes. The employer's contrib. is dumped into the account in one lump in the Spring--- provided you worked 1,000 hours in that previous year.

  • I appreciate the replies. Looks as though between us all, none of us here is in fact able to make sense out of the crap I quoted from the statement. Actually, I'm not young. 60 years old this month. Wife is 41. And she'll be switching jobs shortly. I dunno if that means she'll NEVER be vested in this 403b Plan, or...what? ..... If it even matters, I did have the presence of mind to switch the investment election from their Money Market default selection to Vanguard's NAESX. Small-cap Index. The employer's annual contrib. was dumped into the account just AFTER a late-March, 2014 dividend in that mutual fund had been paid.

    I am indeed able to log into an account page to see what's there. But of course, there's nothing there regarding my questions, above. Once, wifey said she's vested. Yesterday, she said she wasn't. Ugh. I must go look at that MassMutual account page again. The stuff I quoted directly from the quarterly statement is outrageously complicated, stupid and indecipherable. Words and numbers. Only an annuity geek could possibly understand it. Crazy. Thanks, everyone.
  • Will she be able to roll over any money in that account to another account if she leaves that job? It doesn't sound like the kind of company one would want to leave money with.
  • I believe it is common that a company's matching funds in a retirement account needs to be vested before you are able to receive them. Basically your wife needs to work for that company, vested, for a certain amount of years. Her HR person can tell you how that works.

    In fact I started with a new employer this year where they match up to 3%, but I must work for them (vested) for 5 years to make 100% of their contributed money. Actually the rules around mine are that I would receive 20% of the matching contribution for every year I work there. This really is no different than 'old-time pension plans'. You always had to work a certain amount of years to be vested in a retirement plan.

    By the way, money that your wife contributes to the plan will always be hers no matter when she leaves that employer.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Here's another thing companies big and small are doing that's crooked. Regardless of whether there is a vesting period, they hold back company contributions until the end of the year. So if you leave your job in December you do not get the company match. I happen to work for one such company.

    Utterly shameless in my opinion, but when everyone starts doing it and there can't really be a law against it, one can't do much. My point is unless employees read the fine print they don't even know this is happening until few months after they resign and see company match does not get posted in their account, or when they rollover and find they have less than they did. I am not even clear if simply shares are held back or cash itself does not get invested until end of year. Yet another variable in the sad equation
  • edited July 2014
    MikeM said:

    I believe it is common that a company's matching funds in a retirement account needs to be vested before you are able to receive them. Basically your wife needs to work for that company, vested, for a certain amount of years. Her HR person can tell you how that works.

    In fact I started with a new employer this year where they match up to 3%, but I must work for them (vested) for 5 years to make 100% of their contributed money. Actually the rules around mine are that I would receive 20% of the matching contribution for every year I work there. This really is no different than 'old-time pension plans'. You always had to work a certain amount of years to be vested in a retirement plan.

    By the way, money that your wife contributes to the plan will always be hers no matter when she leaves that employer.

    Hello, MikeM.......... The thing is, it's NOT a match. The employer GIVES you X percent (3%, I do believe) of your prev. year's earnings and deposits the money in the 403b in a big lump, the following Spring. The "gift" is given whether or not you put any money into it, yourself.
  • I bet you could schedule a meeting with HR, your wife, and you.....and address the questions. Request the "benefits person" of HR to be the one who meets with you.
  • edited July 2014
    OK, I just signed-in. Here's the scoop:
    "Total Balance" $962.18

    NAESX +3.97% ytd. (I'll check to see if that jives with the mainstream performance numbers on other websites.) And 17.564 shares owned.

    $948.47 was contributed by employer. The TOTAL VESTED BALANCE = $0.00.
    Yup.
    Click a different link, and it is explained this way:
    Vesting
    How does vesting (ownership) apply to my account?

    Plans set a "vesting schedule" to determine what percentage of ownership you can apply to your account at specific points in time. You are always 100% vested in any Salary Deferral, Transferred EE Pre Tax contributions, plus earnings. Your plan's vesting schedule applies to the following contributions, plus earnings:

    Employer Contribution

    Vested Percent By Year:
    0......... 3
    0%...... 100%

    ___________________________
    So, it looks like there is no partial vesting. You're vested only after you've been there for 3 full years. No partial amounts available if you do not stay employed for at least three years.
    --------------------------
    A further, final note from the website:
    "Your years of service for vesting purposes begin on your date of hire.

    If you die, become disabled or reach normal retirement age, you will become 100% vested in all contributions your company makes to the plan, plus earnings."



    .....So, all of this back and forth and sincere efforts to help have been for nothing, after all. You guys deserve at least a cold beer! Thanks a ton. Wifey will start her new, different gig on 01 Sept.


  • TedTed
    edited July 2014
    Crash: When all is said and done your wife still owns a great fund, NAESX has a excellent performance record.
    Regards,
    Ted
  • Thanks, Ted. .....And she reminded me that, whether or not she works 1,000 hours in each of the next few years, she will still keep the hospital job, but very part-time. So I guess if she maintains her employment, she won't lose what's there and eventually get vested. There were some other decent, not wonderful funds to choose from. But I saw how low the Vang. ER is. Then again, there's all the expenses related to the annuity. Criminally stupid and/or greedy. OK, I suppose we can "retire" this thread. With my thanks to you all.
Sign In or Register to comment.