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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
  • Short Term Bond Funds
    @Crash - you don't name your two funds here. But the only taxable bond fund with a 2.49 year effective duration (per M* screener) is TUHYX. The only bond funds with a 2.68 effective duration are PRCPX, RNOTX, and MHCAX.
    Ultra low volatility? Five year figures are:
    RPHIX: 1.00
    FLRN: 1.98
    WEFIX: 2.47
    FPNRX: 2.52
    BBBMX: 2.56

    MHCAX: 8.25
    RNOTX: 8.28
    PRCPX: 9.28
    TUHYX: 10.41

    Max drawdowns? Again over five years:
    RPHIX: 1.09%
    FLRN: 3.31%
    WEFIX: 4.34%
    FPNRX: 4.24%
    BBBMX: 4.07%

    MHCAX: 12.62%
    RNOTX: 13.58%
    PRCPX: 13.98%
    TUHYX: 17.60%

    How about churn? Current turnover figures are:
    MHCAX: 20%
    BBBMX: 22%

    PRCPX: 36.20%
    WEFIX: 37%
    FLRN: 40%
    FPNRX: 50%

    RNOTX: 75%
    TUHYX: 87%
    RPHIX: 372%

    BBBMX looks better and better.
  • Short Term Bond Funds
    Nice find. It looks like you hit the sweet (or target) spot - high risk relative to ultra short bond funds (of which it is one based on duration), but low risk relative to short term bond funds.
    A fund that's somewhat similar in performance and risk to WEFIX is FPNRX. FPA New Income focuses on preservation and then beating cash. I was happy to see it go no-load several years ago. More recently, it added this investor class so that it could be sold NTF. Unlike many NTF funds, New Income retail class adds only 10 basis points of expenses to its institutional class FPNIX. That may make it worth the cost if you buy frequently and/or in small amounts.
    You'll find several funds with short durations and higher yields that invest primarily in ABSs. These look good on paper but come with risks that don't manifest too often. But sometimes they do. Check March 2020.
    Almost everyone lost money then, but ABS funds tended to lose more. DHEAX is such a fund. Great three year volatility. Less great five year figure. Max drawdown (March-April 2020) was 9.74%. BBBMX was 4.07%, FPNRX was 4.24%, RPHIX was 1.09%. (All from M*)
    It depends on what types of risks you're concerned with and how long you're willing to wait for recoveries.
  • Short Term Bond Funds
    I currently have RPHIX, but since it is not NTF/Schwab and a rather high ER, I am looking for another short-term bond fund that I can add to periodically without incurring a fee. Do you have any suggestions? I have been looking at WEFIX.

    You may want to check out DHEAX, a short term bond fund with with an excellent risk/reward profile (SD=2.39%). It's NTF at Fidelity, don't know about Schwab.
    Good luck.
  • Short Term Bond Funds
    If M* can be trusted:
    Sometimes a picture paints a clearer picture. WCPNX has more volatility than others with less return to show for it. I'm sure it is a fine fund, Weitz is a good bond house. It's just that M*s glowing statistics compared to pictorial comparisons may not jive.
    My error (repeatedly). I meant to refer to the original proposed fund, WEFIX, but my mind locked on WCPNX. My original comments apply to WEFIX, not to WCPNX. WEFIX is a traditional short term bond fund with the interest rate risk exposure that implies. In contrast, FLRN, FLOT, RPHIX have little interest risk exposure.
    Regarding WCPNX: it has held up relatively well for its category, intermediate core plus. This can be attributed in part to its shorter than average duration (for its category). It is not something I would suggest as an alternative for RPHIX and I apologize for the confusion.
  • Short Term Bond Funds
    I currently have RPHIX, but since it is not NTF/Schwab and a rather high ER, I am looking for another short-term bond fund that I can add to periodically without incurring a fee. Do you have any suggestions? I have been looking at WEFIX.
    With a change like that, it seems you are also interested in going a little longer on duration and seeking much higher credit quality. Is that about right?
  • Short Term Bond Funds
    @MikeM - exactly what I was going to say! Along with FLRN there's also FLOT. They're not quite indistinguishable, but pretty close.
    The knock against IG floating rate funds is that they don't do as well in falling interest rate environments. Or so I've read. And until this month (Oct) WCPNX was slightly outperforming them YTD, though not now.
    A question is what you are looking for. RPHYX/RPHIX may be unique in how it invests. This results in after-expense returns that are extremely steady and IMHO worth the cost. Funds like FLRN and FLOT invest more traditionally and have slightly higher volatility and slightly lower returns. They are still well within the ultra-short duration and volatility ranges.
    WCPNX is a traditional short term bond fund. As such, it can get jostled by market disruptions (see, e.g. 2022 and March 2020). The floating rate funds also got hit in March 2020, a market "blip" that affected pretty much everything. They held up nicely in 2022. Also, Schwab imposes a fee if you sell WCPNX within 90 days of purchase.
    So WCPNX is a good fund if you're anticipating holding it for awhile (at least a year), but perhaps there are better choices if you are looking very short term.
    Be advised that WCPNX changed name and strategy at the end of 2016. It had been Weitz Short-Intermediate Income Fund.
    Portfolio Visualizer comparison - RPHIX (benchmark), WEFIX, FLRN, FLOT
  • Short Term Bond Funds
    I currently have RPHIX, but since it is not NTF/Schwab and a rather high ER, I am looking for another short-term bond fund that I can add to periodically without incurring a fee. Do you have any suggestions? I have been looking at WEFIX.
  • Why buy bonds, and a few short lists
    Interesting list for sure. I was glad to see you include WCPNX, as it appears to be a compelling fund based on its 3-year track record. I also took a look at WEFIX to gauge performance by the managers on that fund. So far, so good. Just curious, would you consider WCPNX as a "core plus" fund? It doesn't seem to fit the definition as I understand it, with a fairly low yield and a rather small (7-8%) exposure to lower rated bonds.
  • Why buy bonds, and a few short lists
    Short lists and explanations in 2nd half below.
    I invest for total return, not income. That leads to the question I keep asking myself, so why invest in bonds at all, when equity does better over the long term?
    One reason is diversification - one never knows what will do better from one year to the next. Using bonds for this purpose is a bit like buying insurance. It costs you money (bonds won't do as well long term), but it provides protection against short term drops in the worst case.
    I buy that, but only to a limited degree. So I'll use more aggressively managed bond funds that include areas like high yield that are more equity-like. (That is, I favor core plus and multisector over vanilla core funds.) I'm not giving up quite as much in return, but I'm also not getting quite the diversification benefit that a vanilla fund would provide. It's how I choose to position myself on the risk/reward curve. Each person has his or her own comfort level.
    With that same nod to aggressiveness, I also use bond funds as cash alternatives. Obviously this is a different type of bond fund from those used for total return.
    General attributes I would like the funds to have :
    - Low costs. Really important in bond funds, where correlation between performance and cost is high.
    - Convenience, but I'll only pay a little for that. I've no problem paying $5 to Fidelity to buy more of a TF fund. On a $5K purchase, that comes out to 0.1%, often less than the cost of owning a different fund that's NTF, especially over longer periods of time.
    Personal dislikes:
    - Leverage. I'm fine with 100% exposure to risk with my investment. Don't give me 150% risk exposure.
    - MBS. The fact that there are several pricing models shows that these are hard to value. More important is that with their built in call options (early payoffs), they behave badly when yields shift quickly. A rise in rates causes borrowers to hold on to their mortgages, thus increasing duration and amplifying the drop in bond price. (Negative convexity.) A side effect is that duration numbers for these securities can be deceptive. They're good diversifiers in a broad bond fund; I just don't want a fund hooked on them.
    Macro observation: I almost never time markets. But one must pay attention to the fact that we've had a 35-40 year decline in interest rates that has begun to reverse. IMHO the question is how fast and how far that will go, but not if. This makes it important to watch how interest rate risk is handled.
    =============
    Core plus funds (nothing without some blemishes):
    - BCOIX - good performance, low cost. Flexible with credit risk (i.e. it's core plus), it can't do much about duration. "The Advisor attempts to keep the duration of the Fund’s portfolio substantially equal to that of its benchmark."
    - MWTRX - you used to be able to get MWTIX with a $25K min at Schwab. Now it's $100K. Retail class is slightly pricey. Years ago, managers contrasted their fund with Pimco Total Return by saying that they had the luxury of focusing on issue selection, while Gross was limited to macro calls due to the size of his fund. Now MWTRX is bloated and performance has declined over the past three years. Still fine management.
    - DODIX - cheap, good performance, flexible on credit risk, defensive on interest rate risk. All positive. Not a fund I would have thought of as core plus (my impression was more vanilla), but upon closer look has a nice mix of securities. Main concern is its increasing popularity and girth.
    - WCPNX - just started looking at this (see MFO thread for others' thoughts). Slightly pricey (0.61%), but FWIW, NTF. More importantly, I was impressed a few years ago (last time I looked) with Weitz Short-Intermediate (now Weitz Short Duration) fund WEFIX. Same managers here. I also like that this fund has a somewhat short duration. Needs more research.
    - EIBAX - Gaffney's been there for 2.5 years. She didn't do well at her first EV charge EVBIX. Perhaps she was trying too hard to prove herself, but she got overly aggressive, loading up with equities and commodities. This is a tamer fund, though still wild. Hard to even call it a core plus, given that it's allowed 35% in junk and 35% in foreign. That describes a multi-sector fund, leading us to ...
    Multi-sector funds (the usual suspects) - used for manager-allocated exposure to junk and foreign bonds.
    - PIMIX - sharp manager, great past performance, but with qualifications I've already noted, like leverage and a fondness for MBS. Also, what happened to all the voices who seem to cry out "mean reversion"? (Here though, there are specific market conditions that one can point to that suggest lower returns going forward.)
    - LSBDX - a manager who claims experience in investing the last time interest rates rose; that raises succession as a concern. Ridiculously volatile, but acceptable to me for something this far out on the portfolio risk curve (aggressive multisector). I like that it has shortened its duration. A quirk in its prospectus allows unlimited Canadian investment, perhaps a way to increase non-dollar exposure without going overseas.
    - FSICX - an easy buy if you use Fidelity, else costly. Generally solid fund.
    "Enhanced cash"-ish bond funds - used as buffer for equity investments (to draw from when funds have dropped in value)
    Muni funds - you need to go out at least a couple of years in duration to get yields high enough to justify skipping the bank account.
    - BTMIX - a young fund, but with a solid management team that's been around a long time
    - VMLTX - Vanguard = low cost, conservative management
    Taxable funds
    - RPHYX - pricey, but with a unique strategy that keeps it sufficiently ahead of banks to justify the risk. I still don't think it scales, so it is good that this is closed.
    - FPNIX - I've followed this since the Rodriguez days, when you couldn't get it without a load. Now you can, but Atteberry may have tamed the fund a bit too much. Where else do you find interest only derivatives used so extensively for defensive purposes? That dates back to Rodriguez.
  • 3 Mutual Funds With 10 Years Of Positive Returns
    Morningstar premium screener. Ask for 2004 annual returns >= 0 and 2005 returns >=0 and ...
    Pretty easy (but you do need a premium account with M*). The tedious part was transcribing the tickers :-( But I find a manual exercise like that helpful; it forces me to take a close look at the results.
    Beyond that, I just made notes on a few funds that I've kept eyes on, like Bernstein (for very stable very short term state-specific munis), TCW/MetWest, and Vanguard. WEFIX was on my short list for years (and I'd included it in a suggested portfolio for a friend), until they upped the min and created a more expensive retail class.
  • 3 Mutual Funds With 10 Years Of Positive Returns
    According to M*, there are exactly two non-bond funds that did not lose money in any of the past ten calendar years. WICAX (one of the three funds named), and KRFEX.
    While NSTLX (the institutional share class of N&B Strategic Income) makes the cut, the ticker that was given in the article, NSTAX (A class) does not, because that share class did not exist until 3/3/2008.
    Both share classes of TCW Total return (TGLMX as well as the named TGMNX) made the grade, but it is worth noting that management changed about midway through the ten years. The MetWest management that TCW bought is great, but I'd rather invest in their flagship fund MWTIX.
    As I've said before, I don't think there's anything magical about 0.000% return. But FWIW, the other nonlosers are:
    Taxable bond funds: FXICX, AALPX, AVEFX, BBBMX, CCBAX, DFIHX, DFGFX, SDGIX, FGUSX, FPNIX, GSTGX, MXSDX, HUBAX, JASBX, JIBDX, HLLVX, LKFIX, DFCFX, DFYGX, MSTIX, MUCYX, BSBAX, PYSBX, PRVBX, PIASX, PMYIX, PSBAX, PIFZX, SIGVX, STBFX, BSGAX, PRWBX, TSDOX, DIHQX, FOSIX, UGSDX, VBISX, VFIRX (note only the Admiral shares made the cut), WEFIX (used to be NTF until Weitz added a retail class with a 0.25% admin fee in 2011), SGVAX, MVSAX
    Muni bond funds: ALABX, ATOIX, SDCMX, SDDMX, SDNYX (Bernstein short duration funds don't make much but are very stable; don't know any way to get them without a load), MDLMX, MINSX, CNTIX, HICOX, NSMIX, DFSMX, DSIBX, FMUUX, FSHIX (the retail version, FMTAX - load waived at Vanguard - lost a few basis points in 2008 and 2013), FISHX (the T class lost 0.17% in 2013), FSTFX, FFTFX, GSDUX, FLTRX, SUMAX, PRMDX, PRFSX, LTCAX, LTMIX, VMLTX, VWSTX, SCTIX, SMUAX, SHDAX.
    Not surprisingly, the muni bond funds tend to be short or short-intermediate.
  • Open Thread: What Have You Been Buying/Selling/Pondering
    I've been doing a serious portfolio makeover the last few months. Recently sold WEFIX and added to my RPHYX. For the rest I've been buying global, selling local:
    Bought IVSIX, JPPIX, TWEBX, FPRAX, SGHIX, RPGAX, GPROX. Sold FPACX, PRWCX, VDIGX, GPIOX, BERWX.
    Also recently bought two closed end global bond funds: BGH and VGI. The double digit discounts tempted me. BGH is now down to single digits, VGI has widened a bit. I hope that tax selling is about over for them.
    Hope to settle down to buy-and-hold now. I think these are funds which are amenable for that.
  • What Mutual Fund will GAIN IF We Have a Recession?
    Reply to @AndyJ: Thanks, AndyJ. I think I'll go with RPHYX, ADBLX or WEFIX (or a combination with PONDX) - and let the managers far more knowledgeable than I decide what moves to make.
  • What Mutual Fund will GAIN IF We Have a Recession?
    Reply to @catch22: Wow, Catch... thanks for taking so much of your time to respond.
    I am confused about your TIP recommendation. Aren't TIPs best used to combat inflation when one expects a recovery and not a recession? The negative yield doesn't bother me (since I don't withdraw any funds to live on) as long as the total return is good. But all TIPS lost too much for me in 2008. And, most importantly for this particular investment account, I don't want David to see losses in his account during extended downturns/recession.
    I do have PLDDX on my Watch List - and those returns are more what I am looking for in this account. But my WEFIX that I've held for years has done better during down times (2.29% in 2008 vs the small PLDDX loss of -1.58%) yet still competitive in good times for short-term bond funds - and PLDDX has a very high percentage mortgage allocation which is one of my main problems in just going with most intermediate-term bonds as I don't know how all these mortgage investments will perform in the next crash.
    P.S. I always enjoy reading your posts updating your investments - you've done very well with your bond funds portfolio! Thanks for keeping that updated.
    P.P.S. Nice that you remembered my garden. After 3 months of repotting every one of my 650 Clivia (when so many diseased/infected after recent construction), I'll probably end up losing 100 of them.... but think the rest may recover so that's a big plus. VERY HOT, though, with 93 degrees here in Huntington Beach, California, which doesn't help.
  • What Mutual Fund will GAIN IF We Have a Recession?
    We have two relatively small percentage of our total investments/savings/cds in two Roth IRAs. They were temporarily put into Roth CD's a couple years ago and are now due to expire. The best rate we found if kept in CD's is 2.05% for 7 years.
    My husband likes "safe and easy", but it would be hard for me to go that route, if only on principle. I would like to offer him a MF alternative that is most likely to at least double that rate... but also with very little chance of losses during extended downturn periods - and the timing seems especially poor with election/current unsolved economic problems right around the corner. We have ample funds in current money market/cd's that we don't need any income from these Roth IRAs.
    IF we have a recession, can you recommend a mutual fund that is most likely to GAIN 2% or more? In the 2008 crash, WEFIX gained 2.29% in 2008, and several intermediate and short-term bond funds/etf's gained 6%+ (BND, BIV, VFIIX, VUSTX, SHY, VBISX), and my IAU gained 5.11%, and all definitely beat 2% over 7 year period.
    But this is not 2008, and aren't the economic problems likely to be different enough that what did well then will not do well during our next extended strong downturn. So many of the bond funds now have significant amounts invested in mortgage-backed securities, so I don't know how well they would hold up in a recession.
    Cathy
  • Skeeter's Take ... Seasonal Strategy ... Market's Valuation ... and Portfolio Adjustments
    Reply to @scott: Thanks, Scott... it's so nice to be able to join in again. I've never been comfortable with the Arbitrage-type funds... my short term THOPX, and even more conservative WEFIX seems to regularly outperform (or at least keep up) with those funds with less volatility.
    I like SIRIX, but it holds too high percentage of DBLTX, which I already own. I've been very happy with BERIX - and even not afraid of my YACKX, which has ups and downs within my comfort zone and has gained well over my goals.
    My "closest to cash" fund is RPHYX - YTD and 12 month returns low, but so much better than cd's, and nice and steady.
    I am concerned about my PRIIX, seems too longer-term to be in Treasuries now. What do you think about this?
  • Schwab NL/NTF Roth Portfolio
    Reply to @Investor: Thanks for your comments. Please pardon my tardy response. I’m very slowly learning how to use the MFO board. Maybe with the new posting structure being proposed I’ll get better at this.
    Poking around Schwab’s site I did find a Weitz new alternative to WEFIX short intermediate fund: WSHNX. But Fundaments’ pick of PTTDX looks like a better choice for my needs than WSHNX and I really prefer MWTRX to PTTDX. The aggregate index SWLBX and even lower cost ETF alternative SCHZ look great especially since I can trade that ETF for zip. Schwab has a transaction fee for VBMFX and FBIDX so those won’t work for these Roths.
  • Schwab NL/NTF Roth Portfolio
    Reply to @glampig: Why bother with WEFIX. Just get BND or AGG or SCHZ which follow the Barclays US bond index. Or if you prefer mutual fund VBMFX, FBIDX, SWLBX.
    The bond index itself has better 1, 3, 5, 10 and 15 year record than WEFIX. And it did perform better in 2008.
  • What ever happened to the "Make more, lose less" fund portfolio??
    It's true that 2009 expenses were generally higher (because some ERs are based on AUM, which obviously dropped at the end of 2008), but after seeing that Forester Discovery had been waiving all of its 1.35% expenses in 2009, I figured that any small differences in the other funds' expense ratios would be subsumed by this one low figure.
    Only Arbitrage (ARBFX) had a sizeable jump, and even that jump (43 basis points) was less than the difference between the reported 1.72% ER in 2009 and the computed 1.18% ER for 2011.
    For the record:

    Fund Weight 2011 2009
    FVALX 5% 1.25% 1.35%
    AMAGX 5% 1.14% 1.30%
    QRSVX 5% 1.24% 1.35%
    INTLX 10% 1.35% 0.00% 1.35% w/o waivers
    MAPIX 10% 1.14% 1.30%
    BPLEX 10% 2.72% 2.75%
    ARBFX 10% 1.52% 1.95%
    HSTRX 15% 0.64% 0.75%
    MGIDX 7.50% 0.89% 1%
    PTTDX 7.50% 0.75% 0.75%
    WEFIX 7.50% 0.64% 0.69%
    PGNDX 7.50% 0.90% 0.90%
    Avg 1.1817% 1.1650%
    Weighted Avg 1.1890% 1.1548%
  • What ever happened to the "Make more, lose less" fund portfolio??
    Don't know where you're getting your average ER from. Using M* data, here's what I've got:

    Fund Weight ER Category Cat Avg ER
    FVALX 5% 1.25% LV 1.27%
    AMAGX 5% 1.14% LG 1.36%
    QRSVX 5% 1.24% SV 1.49%
    INTLX 10% 1.35% World Alloc 1.34%
    MAPIX 10% 1.14% Pac/Asia 1.78%
    BPLEX 10% 2.72% Long/Short 2.12%
    ARBFX 10% 1.52% Mkt Neutral 2.14%
    HSTRX 15% 0.64% Cons Alloc 0.97%
    MGIDX 7.50% 0.89% Int Gvmt 0.99%
    PTTDX 7.50% 0.75% Int Bond 0.96%
    WEFIX 7.50% 0.64% ST Bond 0.86%
    PGNDX 7.50% 0.90% Int Gvmt 0.99%
    Avg 100% 1.1817% 1.3558%
    Weighted Avg 1.1890% 1.3745%
    I agree that some of the expenses are higher than I'd use (category averages tend to be notoriously high, so besting them is a low bar to meet). But except for Robeco Long/Short, they all beat (or virtually meet, in the case of Forrester Int'l) their category averages.