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Brexit: What, Me Worry?

MJG
edited June 2016 in Fund Discussions
Hi Guys,

Much worry, much overreaction, much uncertainty, many diverse predictions from market prophets, and likely not much change whatsoever. I hesitated to contribute to this MFO dialogue that focuses on the Brexit event because I believe it will be modest in scope, in magnitude, and in timeline.

Over the world map, our population has not changed, our consumption characteristics have not changed, our entrepreneur cohort is constant, our wealth level remains at a high level, and the event will be spread over a generous timeframe.

As Alfred E. Newman arrogantly said: “What, Me Worry?” Here is a short music video that documents Newman’s famous saying:



On a far more serious note, here is a Link to a 10 minute Charlie Munger video that emphasizes the wisdom of staying the course during market disruptions:



Stock markets are a rollercoaster ride. We must be flexible enough to absorb all dislocations; they happen frequently enough. The long term history of various stock markets clearly demonstrate the robustness of our industrial revolution.

Yes, the British decision will promote some reordering and redistribution of who does what and who makes what. But the marketplace does this all the time anyway. Often, it's identified as progress.

As I reported earlier, I am not making any change to my portfolio. Sometimes, it’s a challenge, but I am committed to sitting on my investments.

Experts fail at the prediction game. Most experts predicted that the Brexit initiative would not be accepted. They were wrong about that; they will likely be wrong about the impact of that decision also.

As Lao Tzu observed: “Those who have knowledge, don’t predict. Those who predict, don’t have knowledge.” An anonymous source adds that “Forecasting is the art of saying what will happen, and then explaining why it didn’t”. The data show that market forecasters are well practiced at that art.

Given the cumulative cataclysmic world events that we have survived, recovered from, and finally prospered from, the Brexit vote hardly deserves to qualify for that list. I don’t sweat it and plan to stay the course. Naturally, I encourage each of you to locate and follow your own North star.

Patience and commitment will be rewarded. Don’t trust me; trust the market historical data sets. Calm carries the day.

Best Wishes.

Comments

  • Nice post......

    And thanks for posting that excellent Charlie Munger clip, MJG
  • I presume this is quoted to you; as there is no other apparent attribute? :

    "Over the world map, our population has not changed, our consumption characteristics have not changed, our entrepreneur cohort is constant, our wealth level remains at a high level, and the event will be spread over a generous time frame."
  • MJG
    edited June 2016
    Hi rjb112, Hi catch22,

    Thanks for reading my post. I was trying to lighten the mood.

    Catch, you presume correctly. I wrote the brief paragraph emphasizing that the world economy one day before the Brexit vote was essentially the same as the day after the vote. It was a little tongue in cheek. I do expect some adjustment over a longer timeframe, but then a new normal will be established that has a relatively minor impact on the US stock market.

    I have little confidence that my future guesstimate will be accurate. I'm just having some fun. My forecasting record likely equals that of the experts. It's equivalent to a 50/50 coin toss.

    Best Wishes.
  • I could not agree more with you MJG. Not much has really changed; we will survive as prosper, over time.
  • Wise words as always, MJG. Thanks for giving your time to this site.
  • edited June 2016
    “Forecasting is the art of saying what will happen, and then explaining why it didn’t”. The data show that market forecasters are well practiced at that art.
    Love it.

    Thank you MJG.

    I fear Brexit is another example of "scorched-earth" politics, but one that actually succeeded. Hard to believe that such an important national decision could be decided with just a simple majority, instead of say two-thirds.

    (Another example of such politics is the refusal to vote on Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland.)

    Financial sectors hammered Friday, since so-called passporting rules, which I believe allow banks based in London to operate seamlessly in other European countries, are now up in air.

    Might read the brilliant and perhaps more disturbing piece published in The Atlantic recently, entitled "How American Politics Went Insane".

    Thanks again.

    Hope all is well.

    c
  • edited June 2016
    So................does no one here find or see a "turning point" with the Brexit vote?

    Hi @Charles
    You noted: "Hard to believe that such an important national decision could be decided with just a simple majority, instead of say two-thirds."

    You'll enjoy this even more, Nov. 1994: major trade policy passed with Lame Duck congress.

    I find the above very disgusting. I met with some U.S. house members at the time and found them mostly clueless and not qualified to make a proper decision for such important legislation.

  • “If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”
    ― Carl Sandburg

    The discussion about Brexit here are like the quote above. People don't discuss why Britain should have remained. They focus on the law and pounding the table.

    The people have voted and the world is still spinning. If Britain was not the first to leave it may have been Greece, Spain or an Eastern European country.

    MJG put it all into perspective very well.
  • edited June 2016
    I fear we will not know the full impact of the Brexit decision for many years, and that this impact may be much more that stock market fluctuations.

    Putin has been consolidating power recently, and a less united Europe plays into his hands. This is probably my biggest fear. I think the folks arguing to leave were sold a bill of goods, and are suffering near term buyers remorse. The larger impact may indeed be down the road with a destabilized Europe.
  • Only a handful of geopolitical events over the last 50 years have produced major forward negative returns.
    If an investor utilizes an empirically derived, systematically based, risk managed process with a diversification over different asset classes, then long term results shouldn't be affected by news driven, geopolitical events.
    For example, investing in a blend of small cap value and emerging small cap from Nov 1 to Apr 30 and then switching to utilities sector or cash equivalents ( depending on signaling instruction from risk profile variable * ) from May 1 to Oct 31 of each year, forward 5 year total returns periods after 10 major geopolitical events over the last 50 years have produced: > 100% in 7 periods and 50% - 100% in 2 periods with no losing periods.

    A more compelling test of an investment process' returns involves a review of 5 year total returns after market peaks and then subsequent market corrections of > 5%. Since 1954, forward 5 year total returns periods for the small cap value / emerging small / utilities / cash process after the "peaks" have produced > 100% in 11 of 24 occurrences, between 50% and 100% 5 year total return periods in 8 out of 24, with no losing periods.
    * quantitative price based variable # 2 https://stockmarketmap.wordpress.com/2015/11/14/market-map-model-tactical-asset-allocation-using-low-expense-index-etfs-2015/
  • MJG
    edited June 2016
    Hi Guys,

    Thank you all for participating. Really thoughtful stuff!

    We are all free to express our opinions. They are only opinions, some better informed then others, but still opinions. Those who claim to own a crystal ball often need to cleanup broken glass.

    I did read the extensive “The Atlantic” article recommended by MFOer Charles. It is a fast paced rush through our nation’s political history. I agreed with many of its interpretations, and took exception to a few others. The author’s interpretations are similarly only opinions. The referenced piece is a worthwhile read. Thanks Charles.

    Chaos seems to be synonymous with democracy. That’s the way it was in the beginning; that’s the way it is currently. And it’s not unique to the United States either. As Sir Winston Churchill remarked: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others”. Chaos can produce good outcomes.

    It is a constant struggle not to allow democracy to decay into either full chaos or perhaps even tyranny on the opposite side of the scale. Historically, even Plato warned about that danger. But we have successfully escaped that dire outcome for over two centuries with an unfortunate history of electing terrible Presidents.

    We are survivors. It may take some time, but we finally do recognize the dangers, adjust our behaviors and preferences accordingly, realign our support, modify our reactions, and ultimately overcome Washington’s transgressions. They have been numerous, but they have always been imperfectly overcome. In the political arena, just like in life itself, perfection is an unrealistic target, a textbook illusion.

    Unlike the referenced article, I don’t worry the constant exposure that the political class must now address. Basically, that exposure is goodness. Yes there are some negative aspects to it, but from my perspective, the good far outweighs the bad effects. Yes, the Brexit decision will cause some disruptions, but we will discover some functional workarounds that limit its impact, and perhaps even promote a better world investment climate.

    The folks in West Virginia will survive the flooding. Brexit is far less threatening to us.

    Best Wishes.
  • PRESSmUP said:

    I fear we will not know the full impact of the Brexit decision for many years, and that this impact may be much more that stock market fluctuations.

    Putin has been consolidating power recently, and a less united Europe plays into his hands. This is probably my biggest fear. I think the folks arguing to leave were sold a bill of goods, and are suffering near term buyers remorse. The larger impact may indeed be down the road with a destabilized Europe.

    That is true. Look at the middle east. The world is reaping what was decided in WWI!
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-25299553

    But as I posted in another thread the EU was going against the historical trends. We can expect more countries to leave the EU in favor of localized government.

    Longer term Europe will build stronger ties with Russia and it will not be a bad thing for them. And it will be going back to what it was historically - Russia, just another western European country. Russia is not the USSR, it is facing the same problems as the western European countries.

  • @MJG

    You noted: " Brexit is far less threatening to us." ??? Than flooding or something else???

    OMG..........a prediction based upon the unknown...............as with "black holes", one may presume with confidence, eh?
  • MJG
    edited June 2016
    Hi Catch,

    No,No! Never in confidence as I have made abundantly clear in endless earlier posts. Forecasters have a terrible scorecard, and can't forecast with any reliability. That includes me, and I don't consider myself a forecaster. Forecasters are really guesstimaters, some lucky but not for long.

    My closing comment was meant to draw a distinction between the "clear and present danger" of those West Virginians currently exposed to ongoing flooding conditions, and the nebulous, uncertain threat of a future Brexit rolling effect. One is real, while the other is a definite maybe. Now that's a big league distinction.

    Why so exercised over a rather innocuous comment that just made a comparison between the now and the possible future? You are making much of 1% of the post that was mostly independent of the main theme of that post. That theme would not be degraded whatsoever if that closing statement were entirely deleted from the submittal. Some folks might call your comments nitpicking. You're always free to do so.

    Best Wishes.
  • As someone else noted, Britain voted to leave the EU. Close to home, more than 20 people died when flash floods swept through White Sulpher Springs, West Virginia, destroying perhaps hundreds of home and leaving folks with virtually nothing. This reminds us of what is a real tragedy. While each of us lost some of our investment capital on Friday, some folks in our own country lost everything. In a letter to our clients, we reminded them of this.
  • PRESSmUP said:



    Putin has been consolidating power recently, and a less united Europe plays into his hands. This is probably my biggest fear. I think the folks arguing to leave were sold a bill of goods, and are suffering near term buyers remorse. The larger impact may indeed be down the road with a destabilized Europe.

    Isn't that what NATO is for? Don't see Brexit changing the balance of power vs Russia in any meaningful way.
  • Gandalf said:

    PRESSmUP said:



    Putin has been consolidating power recently, and a less united Europe plays into his hands. This is probably my biggest fear. I think the folks arguing to leave were sold a bill of goods, and are suffering near term buyers remorse. The larger impact may indeed be down the road with a destabilized Europe.

    Isn't that what NATO is for? Don't see Brexit changing the balance of power vs Russia in any meaningful way.
    That is what the USA is for. If you look at the military preparedness of western European nations it is extremely poor. But the major weakness of WE is that it gets much of its energy from Russia. And the weakness of Russia is that it needs the energy revenue from WE.
  • DanHardy said:

    Gandalf said:

    PRESSmUP said:



    Putin has been consolidating power recently, and a less united Europe plays into his hands. This is probably my biggest fear. I think the folks arguing to leave were sold a bill of goods, and are suffering near term buyers remorse. The larger impact may indeed be down the road with a destabilized Europe.

    Isn't that what NATO is for? Don't see Brexit changing the balance of power vs Russia in any meaningful way.
    That is what the USA is for. If you look at the military preparedness of western European nations it is extremely poor.
    Correct, and the US is a member of NATO
  • Gandalf said:



    Correct, and the US is a member of NATO

    Right, so if something happens (which I doubt) it is the men and women of US military that get killed and the US picks up the cost. Not the WE countries.

  • Yes, but that is true regardless of Brexit and that is why at least militarily Russia does not suddenly get an upper hand due to Brexit.
  • @ Charles: Thanks for the ref & link to the Atlantic article. I read it through in entirety (in between other distractions) and found it most interesting. While I am not qualified to comment on either the analyses or the proposed possibilities or potential solutions, I have to say that I found much food for thought and would recommend it to anyone appalled (or simply intrigued) by the current political morass.

    As has been said "May you live in interesting times".
  • I'm now 34 years young and I can't remember when times were not interesting! : )
  • Only a handful of geopolitical events have led to / accompanied major market corrections. One factor that has repeated over time has been the slowing of market activity / dry up of liquidity, the increase in market volatility because of exogenous events during the summer / fall months, and favorability of earnings reports, pick up of volume/liquidity and institutional allocations into equities in the fall / winter / spring months. If an investor utilizes an empirically derived, systematically based, risk managed process with a diversification over varied asset classes, then long term results and investment decisions are less affected by geopolitical events and emotionally driven financial news.
    For example, investing in a blend of small cap value and emerging small cap from Nov 1 to Apr 30 and then switching to utilities sector or cash equivalents ( depending on "high risk" signaling instruction from risk profile variable * ) from May 1 to Oct 31 of each year, forward 5 year total returns periods after 10 major geopolitical events over the last 60 years have produced: > 100% in 7 periods and 50% - 100% in 2 periods with no losing periods.
    A higher confidence of an investment process' returns involves a review of 5 year total returns after market peaks and then subsequent market corrections of > 5%.
    Since 1954, forward 5 year total returns periods for the small cap value / emerging small / utilities / cash process after the "peaks" have produced > 100% in 11 of 24 occurrences, between 50% and 100% in 8 out of 24, with no losing periods with median 5 year return = 87% vs. 43% for S&P500 buy & hold. Median 5 year return periods outside of correction occurrences = 114%.

    In summary, market corrections and geopolitical events are temporary. An investor who has utilized a robust tactical investment process combined with superior asset class selection, and has been disciplined and patient for at least 5 years has been well rewarded.

    * quantitative price based variable # 2 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u5PjMjpeLICy8fa-34c89oHqV6bghPTipGO_0IY3VRc/edit?usp=sharing
  • jstr said:

    If an investor utilizes an empirically derived, systematically based, risk managed process with a diversification over varied asset classes, then long term results and investment decisions are less affected by geopolitical events and emotionally driven financial news.

    I keep thinking of the Japanese.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^N225+Interactive#{"range":"max","allowChartStacking":true}

    And the S&P with its double tops

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^GSPC+Interactive#symbol=^GSPC;range=my

    Eventually, 'this time is different' happens.

    I don't think the Brexit will do it. I think will be acknowledging deflationary pressures will be the cause. We are not there yet. And it is a difficult idea for the news media to see and understand.



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