I try to remind myself of these fees each time I am offered a "free" steak dinner from these wealth management companies.
In my world, management fees would only be allowed on positive performance (the gains), not the initial investment amount (the principal).
For example, If I give you $10K to invest and that investment becomes $11K in a year, I am willing to pay you 1% on the gain (1% of $1K or $10), not 1% on the entire $11K.
You helped me make $1K... I brought you $10K.
Conversely, If you lost money for me that year, you get $0 fee.
Or even better, how about you pay me 1% of AUM in the years when my portfolio had negative returns. We are a team, right? If "we do better when you do better" is true, than how about "we both do worse when you suffer a loss (do worse)".
In terms of retirement Safe Withdrawal Rate (SWR) of say 4%, a typical 1% management fee equates to 25% of that SWR (1% of the 4%). That a significant reduction in retirement income.
I'll take that steak dinner to go please!

@JD_co. Big fan of PRPFX here. Have it in both taxable and retirement accounts. My question is on what data are you placing ALLW in taxable accounts? Seems like turnover might be part of the plan. Lots of gains that would be taxable?

We shall see, thanks for pointing this out. ALLW distributes annually with 12-31 ex-date.
Per their website:
"Despite investing in commodity-linked derivatives, the fund does not issue a Schedule
K-1 as the fund holds the commodity-linked derivatives through a wholly-owned Cayman
Islands subsidiary to minimize non-qualifying income."

@JD_co. Big fan of PRPFX here. Have it in both taxable and retirement accounts. My question is on what data are you placing ALLW in taxable accounts? Seems like turnover might be part of the plan. Lots of gains that would be taxable?

From David, ”And the level of stock ownership is now at a record high; almost 45% of Americans’ net wealth rests in their stock portfolios (Federal Reserve data, 9/28/2025). So the American consumer is propping up the stock market, and the stock market is propping up the economy, and now consumer confidence is cratering.”
Randall Forsyth makes a similar case in this week’s Barron’s . In effect, Forsyth says it’s the stock market keeping the economy afloat. He sees the impetus continuing for some time even if the markets falter because of the enormous gains the wealthiest have already reaped. And Schwab has a new TV spot in which a couple riding in the back of a limo talking about stocks is interrupted by the limo driver - who turns out also to be an avid trader. :)

Monthly data is utilized for Portfolio Visualizer analyses
while daily data is incorporated in Portfolio Backtester analyses.
Consequently, results will vary.
Portfolio Visualizer generated the following results for QDSIX, QLEIX, and QMNIX respectively¹.
CAGR: 12.59%, 24.84%, 18.14%
Max. Drawdown: -4.45%, -15.98%, -10.52%
Sharpe: 1.42, 1.68, 1.28
Sortino: 2.85, 3.63, 2.66
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&sl=4yoNaAO46AdhkOrEsxJKG2
Portfolio Backtester generated the following results for QDSIX, QLEIX, and QMNIX during the same period.
CAGR: 11.97%, 25.11%, 18.37%
Max. Drawdown: -7.06%, -17.07%, -14.05%
Sharpe: 1.16, 1.91, 1.51
Sortino: 1.57, 2.79, 2.20
https://testfol.io/?s=4JX16KUrEm3
¹ Jul. 2020 - Sep. 2025 (constrained by available data for QDSIX).

Here are my observations
- The SD metric incorporates daily price movements. No need to manually pore over individual price charts imo
- Selective cherry picking of dates for unclear reasons. I.e. A 3 year chart of QDSIX is being looked at alongside YTD charts for SPY (no idea why SPY even entered the picture in a discussion for bond funds but anyway..)
- My suggestion of QDSIX as a candidate for replacing a standard bond fund (such as BND) was initially explained as per below

To me the label of Bond fund is less relevant than whether it has served the function of a bond fund. I.e. Decent return and low max dd. With that frame, here are some funds that have returned 7% or higher during the last 5Y with a drawdown of 3% or lower.
CEDIX, 15.6, 2.4
VFLEX 10, 2.1
LCTIX 7.4, 2.5
as compared to
CBLDX 6.1, 1.4
PFIIX 4.5, 7.3
PAIIX 2.6, 8.9
The last two would be no-go's for me with those performance and max dd numbers.

Subsequently I proposed QDSIX too (in response to a question asked by a forum member) with justification as per below

Here is the direct QDSIX to BND compare
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/fund-performance?s=y&sl=3hYp9dTgZx25fW564h0zrq
Key take-aways
CAGR of 12.59% vs. -0.43%
MaxDD 4.45% vs. 17.54%
Sortino 2.85 vs. -0.64
Short story is that QDSIX has blown the lights out of BND across various time periods since inception in 2020 at significantly lower volatility.

And finally, in response to the selective cherry picking of dates by @FD1000 (Note: I never proposed QLEIX to be a substitute for a bond fund, I have no idea just like SPY why QLEIX entered the picture in a bond fund thread but anyway..).
3Y (10/1/22 to 09/30/25) Return & Risk Stats of QLEIX, QDSIX
CAGR: 13.41, 32.55
SD: 6.62, 8.39
Is QLEIX CAGR a lot better than QDSIX for above time period for comparable risk? Sure, I think that is a reasonable argument to make
But zoom out to the inception to date performance of QDSIX (July 2020 to Sep 2025) as compared to QLEIX and the numbers are
CAGR: 12.59, 24.84
SD: 6.5, 12.05
MaxDD: 4.45, 15.98
In short, I don't see QLEIX is a replacement for QDSIX but YMMV. I certainly see QDSIX as a strong replacement for BND but I ack the comments from others that QDSIX is a young fund that has not been battle tested.

Hello MFO team:
Love your publication. Am I to understand that your site will no longer publish or entertain a discussion about MF Capital Gain estimates as in yrs past? You're now steering your subscribers over to CapGainsValet?
Thank you
Felipe Garcia

Maybe. What Cisco had mostly in its favor in the early days was almost no competition.
Now they have plenty of credible peers. Still a good company though.
M* says they are currently over-valued. But, have a wide moat and great capital allocation structure.

AQR had a rough patch from 2018 to 2020.
Since then, their funds (i.e. QLEIX, QDSIX and QMNIX) have performed very well. QDSIX had the far better max drawdown during that period and also lowest SD.....and the lowest return of the 3.

Perhaps we should ask AI? Ahahah
Key figures on AI's impact:
-75% of S&P 500 gains: Since the launch of ChatGPT in November 2022, AI-related stocks drove 75% of the gains in the S&P 500, according to a September 2025 analysis by JPMorgan.
-60% of 2025 market returns: In 2025, approximately 60% of market returns were attributed to AI-related stocks.
-Dominance of the "Magnificent Seven": Much of this growth is tied to a handful of companies, including Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, Meta, Microsoft, NVIDIA, and Tesla.
-Through the first three quarters of 2025, this group added $3.1 trillion in market capitalization.
-Sector-specific outperformance: A Morningstar analysis showed that a basket of 38 AI stocks significantly outperformed the overall market in the third quarter of 2025, gaining 15.7% compared to the market's 7.7% return.
I don't know about you guys, but I am not feeling any better after reading that! If true, this bubble has been forming for 3 years already. And is highly focused on the usual suspects.

To be clear, I don't doubt that there is a future in AI. How that plays out, I have no idea.
What I question, and several here have commented upon, is the enthusiasm and trajectory at this point in the process. What it might lead to if it doesn't produce relatively immediate and massive change (and profits). And what role AI is currently playing in the year's market gains.
I do see a lot of parallels to Dotcom. Working in telecom, I was right in the middle of all of that. From my perspective, it was all about the routers and optical fiber. Eventually, the big players bought up all that excess fiber capacity at pennies on the dollar. And routers became commodities. Debt also played a huge role. Selling the hardware to start ups, and financing the purchases, turned out to be a big mistake. All sorts of accounting tricks were also employed to make profits look much better than they really were.
Then reality set in.

Here is the direct QDSIX to BND compare
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/fund-performance?s=y&sl=3hYp9dTgZx25fW564h0zrq
Key take-aways
CAGR of 12.59% vs. -0.43%
MaxDD 4.45% vs. 17.54%
Sortino 2.85 vs. -0.64
Short story is that QDSIX has blown the lights out of BND across various time periods since inception in 2020 at significantly lower volatility.

@Bitzer
- QDSIX primarily. Slightly higher volatility than BND but much higher Sortino and returns since inception in 2020 and much lower max dd.
- I would also consider APHPX as a solid bond sub

Some of this has been mentioned in other threads here. What is somewhat surprising to me is how many are all starting to speak up. So, I thought this might deserve its own thread.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/03/goldman-sachs-ceo-david-solomon-warns-stock-market-drawdown-is-coming.html
-Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon said AI presented opportunities but that some investors were overlooking “things you should be skeptical about.”
-Speaking at Italian Tech Week in Turin, Italy, he said a “drawdown” was likely to hit stock markets in the coming two years.
-“I think that there will be a lot of capital that’s deployed that will turn out to not deliver returns,” he said.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if in the next 12 to 24 months, we see a drawdown with respect to equity markets ...and when that happens, people won’t feel good.”
Amazon founder Jeff Bezos said Friday that artificial intelligence is currently in an “industrial bubble.”
Karim Moussalem, chief investment officer of equities at Selwood Asset Management, meanwhile, warned of “enormous risks” on the horizon for the AI trade which could rapidly unravel. “The AI trade is beginning to resemble one of the great speculative manias of market history,”
Veteran investor Leon Cooperman told CNBC that we are in the late innings of a bull market where bubbles can form — something Warren Buffett had warned about.
Most believe there is money to be made, but that the euphoria may be overblown.

The First Trust Alternative Opportunities Fund, known as VFLEX, is a closed-end interval mutual fund. It aims to achieve long-term capital appreciation by generating positive absolute returns across various market cycles.
The fund primarily invests in alternative asset classes, including private equity, private credit, real estate, and hedge funds.
Well, that sure sounds like an adventure...

It has underperformed both VWELX and VBINX
???
PRWCX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 11.65% (annualized)
VWELX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 10.52%
VBINX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 9.25%
Portfolio Visualizer gives similar results when looking at returns from Sept 2020 - Aug 2025.

That’s interesting. Appreciate your comment. I used Chart Fund on M*; Growth including Dividends; 5 year period. For some reason it provided me with different results and I’m not sure why. Definitely wasn’t knowingly providing false information.

Looks like you did something wrong. As has been noted, M*$10k growth chart shows PRWCX +74% and the other two almost 10 and 20 points behind. (Assuming I am doing it right.)

Although I can't wholeheartedly recommend WAPSX (a Franklin Templeton Core+ bond fund sitting in my IRA) because its metrics can't compare to those discussed already, it does produce consistent returns. For the past decade, for every $50k, it returns about $200/month ($2400/yr), or about 4.8%, which I reinvest. It has had negative growth since Covid (2020) but it is beginning to climb from the valley over the past year. Perhaps it is a risk, but since it is at a low price point (around $9.30/sh), it may be an option to consider.
Lots of food for thought in this thread. Thx.

It would be great if Capital Group did ETFs of their OEFs and allowed us to convert into those share classes w/o tax ramifications. Maybe one day?

It has underperformed both VWELX and VBINX
???
PRWCX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 11.65% (annualized)
VWELX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 10.52%
VBINX 5 year performance (through 9/26/25): 9.25%
Portfolio Visualizer gives similar results when looking at returns from Sept 2020 - Aug 2025.

That’s interesting. Appreciate your comment. I used Chart Fund on M*; Growth including Dividends; 5 year period. For some reason it provided me with different results and I’m not sure why. Definitely wasn’t knowingly providing false information.

Just because prices are not going parabolic like 2022, doesn't mean that persistent inflation in the 3-4% range isn't going to wear people down. Tariffs are not going to go away because the FED lowers rates a little. On the contrary, inflation may actually heat up.
And then the FED may need to raise again. This is all a self-inflicted wound. What impact would a rate reversion have on markets, equities and bond funds? A real fly in the ointment.
Who saw where a cameraman caught Bessent texting with the Agriculture Secretary, that after handing Argentina $20 billion U.S. tax dollars, it backfired and China is scooping up their soybeans at the expense of American farmers?
I wonder who put the idea of an Argentine bailout in Trump's ear?
"However, Bessent’s announcement had massive economic benefits for one American: billionaire hedge fund manager Rob Citrone, who has placed large bets on the future of the Argentine economy. Citrone, the co-founder of Discovery Capital Management, is also a friend and former colleague of Bessent—a fact that has not been previously reported in American media outlets. Citrone, by his own account, helped make Bessent very wealthy."