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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
  • Best Online Brokers: Fidelity Wins In Barron’s 2016 Survey
    I agree that TDA is not the best for MF investors, but it doesn't seemall that bad, and has gotten much better in recent years. Further, different types of accounts have different rules.
    I have a TDA account for my HSA. Note that different banks/CUs have different account agreements with TDA, so YMMV, but here's mine:
    http://www.tdameritraderetirement.com/forms/ACS1009.pdf
    For my TDA account:
    1. 90 days to avoid brokerage short term redemption fee - not quite as short as the 60 days some others offer, but close enough.
    2. $25/trade on TF (thus $50 round trip or exchange) - in line with other brokerages
    3. Since the information on most sites comes from M*, I'm not sure how the info varies from one broker to another. Finding that information (attributes/quality of screener) may be something else. Any specific deficiency?
    4. Not sure what the problem is. For example, I look up OSMAX, and right on its summary page it says NTF (for normally front end loaded A shares):
    https://research.tdameritrade.com/grid/public/mutualfunds/profile/profile.asp?symbol=OSMAX
    In contrast, American Funds EuroPacific Growth A shows a load
    https://research.tdameritrade.com/grid/public/mutualfunds/profile/feesandmanagementBuffer.asp?symbol=AEPGX
    5. I agree that portfolio analysis is a nice feature; I just use M*. Fidelity's does not seem to allow you to enter any holdings outside of the brokerage (unless you use their Yodlee software; but even giving it external passwords it cannot access all accounts). Don't know about TDA's portfolio analyzer.
    6. Here's Schwab's page summarizing some competitors:
    http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_products/investment/etfs/schwab_etf_onesource
    The number of NTF ETFs at TDA is in the same ballpark as E*Trade and Fidelity (right in the middle), and TDA offers more families than either. Notably, Vanguard. A gotcha w/TDA that I fortunately found out about before trading is that you have to register for the NTF ETF feature.
  • Health Savers To Get Vanguard Funds At Lowest Cost
    FYI: Do you put money in a Health Savings Account every month without investing it? You may as well shove your hard-earned dollars under a mattress.
    A $2,000 balance in the HSA gives you a measly buck in yearly interest.
    But investing your tax-advantaged HSA funds allows you to build a bigger and better retirement nest egg. The less you pay in administration fees to a mutual fund company, the more that is available to be invested.
    Regards,
    Ted
    http://license.icopyright.net/user/viewFreeUse.act?fuid=MjExMTI5NDQ=
    Enlarged Graphic:
    http://news.investors.com/photopopup.aspx?path=WEBlv121115.gif&docId=784945&xmpSource=&width=1000&height=1027&caption=&id=784950
  • it's aliiiiive! The return of Cap Gains Valet
    I visited CapGainsValet earlier this week. Mark has made some nice upgrades, and I don't recall the site looking so fine last year. Good job, Mark.
    Anyone focused like a laser beam on any important aspect of MF investing is bound to note something we don't. So, Mark--- as the HSA jingle goes--- "if you see something, then say something." By all means, bring it!
  • Mod. Alloc. fund not named PRWCX (TRowe Price Cap. Apprec.)
    @bee so, when you send in your hsa money for the year, you have no control over when they buy shares in the fund?
    Actually it gets invested as it arrives, but it remains fully invested until I redeem shares or a dollar amount. All of this is done via US mail. The online account is spartan. I use bill pay as a monthly hsa contribution method and I receive emails from Bruce that they have received my contribution and I can also log onto my account to verify the transaction history online. This fund is a one trick pony and so far so good even though I would like a MM fund (cash) option as part of my account.
    For the OP, BRUFX is a fine choice. Just realize that investing in the Bruce Fund has it's nuances that are a bit more "old school".
  • Mod. Alloc. fund not named PRWCX (TRowe Price Cap. Apprec.)
    @bee so, when you send in your hsa money for the year, you have no control over when they buy shares in the fund?
    I have an account similar to that at Altegris (private equity and hedge funds). Sometimes I like the fact that it's not that accessible...I have a tendency to mess with my funds at Schwab. But, I always get a little nervous when I deposit money at Altegris because I can't control when it goes into the funds. And I like to average in and average out...not dump a big slug of money at once.
  • Mod. Alloc. fund not named PRWCX (TRowe Price Cap. Apprec.)
    @bee
    if you already own BRUFX at Bruce, can you transfer your holding in its entirety to another HSA, ie, Saturna, TD, etc...thereby allowing you to sell shares and hold the cash as necessary?
    Again, not my point. I would like to own BRUFX as well as have the convenience of a personal cash position with Bruce. If what you are suggesting is to move my BRUFX shares "in kind", my experience is that the new administrator has to have access to that fund on their platform. BRUFX is not on any other platform.
    BRUFX is a lone wolf and I like that. I just want a d#mn cash account too. I've reached out to Bruce about this, but it's not a deal breaker where I resort to another hsa option.
  • Mod. Alloc. fund not named PRWCX (TRowe Price Cap. Apprec.)
    @bee
    if you already own BRUFX at Bruce, can you transfer your holding in its entirety to another HSA, ie, Saturna, TD, etc...thereby allowing you to sell shares and hold the cash as necessary?
  • Mod. Alloc. fund not named PRWCX (TRowe Price Cap. Apprec.)
    >> no cash position other than the internal cash held by the fund
    How is that different from other funds?
    My point is that not with regard to the fund, but to the lack of a cash position (mm fund) option at Bruce.
    At some point I would like to sell shares of BRUFX and holds these proceeds in a cash position (in hsa status) for disbursement at a later point in time. A cash position would also allow me the flexibility to "dial up to" the manager's allocation (including his cash) or "dial it back" with my cash position, but still within the structure of the hsa.
    Get it?
  • my HSA
    @bee - the resets on deductibles are annoying. Your question about when they start is especially relevant for people who switch jobs in mid-year. They lose credit for whatever they did pay, and have to restart the deductible with a new insurer or policy.
    The HSA rules try in a small way to address this problem (by allowing you to make a full year's contribution even if you begin the HDHP in December, so long as you remain in an eligible HDHP plan for all of the following year).
    But that's a small patch. IMHO we need a better integrated health coverage system, or at least a more portable one that doesn't depend on the whims of employers. (Disclosure: I've helped select plans at a couple of small companies where I've worked, so I'm comfortable saying the selection process isn't capricious, but that doesn't help when you move from one employer to another.)
    What your question brought to mind was concierge services. Higher priced, and generally limited to doctor services (not hospitals, etc.), but perhaps some of those address the question of multiple deductibles. On the other hand, these services are not ones designed to save you money, just grief.
  • my HSA
    @Maurice - you're right, I missed your question about an inherited IRA. I would have sworn the rollover could not be done (as, e.g. you cannot roll over an inherited IRA into your own, unless you inherited as a spouse). But a little searching turned up IRS Notice 2008-51, which seems to say this is okay:
    The distributions must be from an IRA or Roth IRA to an HSA owned by the individual who owns the IRA or Roth IRA or, in the case of an inherited IRA, for whom the IRA or Roth IRA is maintained (i.e., a qualified HSA funding distribution cannot be made to an HSA owned by any other person, including the individual’s spouse).
    Regarding HSAs that are worth opening, my brief look at Saturna suggests to me that it has improved a bit, and is very good if you want to invest entirely in mutual funds. They offer several NTF funds (not a huge number, but enough) from a modest set of families. The main downside IMHO is that you must make one transaction each year to avoid a $12.50 fee, and you have to hold an NTF fund at least 180 days. (So you have to remember to do a transaction between July and December every year if you're not buying/selling for other reasons.)
    if you're just looking for a higher yielding "bank" account, you can get 1% (or more, for higher balances) at a few credit unions. (Link is to a listing of top paying HSA accounts; you'll need to configure for your state and balance amount.)
  • my HSA
    What I find interesting is the discussion regarding rolling over an existing IRA to an HSA.
    The rollover provision is a one time event and the amount can only be as much as you are allowed to contribute in a given year. For instance an individual ( age 55 or older) could rollover $4350 from their IRA into their hsa for TY 2015. More if its a family plan. The rollover would be in lieu of any other contribution.
    I use BRUFX as my hsa at Bruce Funds.
  • my HSA
    Individual plans have traditionally had higher deductibles/co-pays, but nothing like what we're seeing under ACA. That, and narrow networks, are some of the main ways that ACA premiums are being kept lower.
    Trying to figure out the best plan becomes intractable, especially when more than one person is involved. You've identified a key difference between HSA plans and some non-HSA plans - the latter often allow doctor visits for co-pays, without requiring that you meet the deductible. The more people you're insuring the more important that becomes, as it becomes more likely that someone will be going to the doctor.
    One other difference between HSA and non-HSA plans - with the HSA plans, the deductible is a single family deductible (e.g. $12,000). For a non-HSA plan, the deductible is an individual deductible (e.g. $6,000 per person and $12,000 for the family).
    So in an HSA plan, no one escapes the deductible until the family pays the combined deductible. In a non-HSA plan, once someone reaches the individual cap (e.g. $6K), that person doesn't have to pay more deductibles. But the other family members do.
    That can work out better if one person is incurring most of the expenses. Then, instead of meeting a family $12K deductible, that person starts getting real coverage after $6K.
  • my HSA
    @msf - thank you for your insight on the questions, but also the real time examples.
    I used the ACA as I needed to purchase health insurance. You are correct in that ACA plans tend to be high deductible plans and the total out-of-pocket costs are at very high points (in my case, for a family).
    What I saw with the non-HSA plan was that PCP visits were $40. With the HSA plans, the deductibles were high, then the co-insurance allocation begins until you reach the maximum out-of-pocket expense limit for the calendar year.
    Knowing that my child could see the doctor for $40 versus having to pay for each visit in full (even at the negotiated insurance cost) until I reached the deductible was an important aspect for me to manage my personal cash flow situation. Whether non-HSA or HSA, once you reach the deductible, you then start the co-insurance process until you reach the maximum out-of-pocket costs for the plan. In the ACA plans, the deductibles and maximum out-of-pocket costs are very high to anything I have experienced when I was employed.
  • my HSA
    So long as you have income, whether it is considered compensation or not, you get to deduct your HSA contribution. It reduces your AGI.
    You are correct that you can only make HSA contributions for the months in which you have an HDHP plan (and no other coverage).
    As to whether HSA-eligible HDHP plans come out better, it depends on where you live.
    Where I live, there are only three HSA-eligible plans offered. Comparing each with the "most popular" non-HSA plans from the same insurer, I would come out better with the HSA-eligible plan each time.
    Insurer 1: Bronze vs. HSA-Bronze
    - HSA plan costs $48/year more
    - HSA plan has $400 higher deductible. (All services subject to deductible in both plans)
    Worst case, HSA plan costs $448 more, but allows deduction of $4350 in HSA contributions.
    Insurer 2: Bronze vs. HSA-Bronze
    - HSA plan costs $276/year more
    - HSA plan has $3K lower deductible
    - All services on both plans are subject to deductible, except first two PCP visits ($45 co-pay) with non-HSA plan.
    Worst case, HSA plan costs about $600 more (assuming PCP visit negotiated charge is around $200), but allows $4350 deduction.
    Insurer 2: Silver vs. HSA-Silver
    - HSA plan costs $120/year less
    - HSA deductible is $200 more
    - All services on both plans are subject to deductible, except for PCP visits with non-HSA plan.
    Unless most of your services are PCP, the HSA is going to cost at worst a few hundred dollars more. Again, the HSA tax deduction will more than compensate for that.
    A real problem with ACA plans is that even if they're not HSA-eligible, they still tend to be high deductible (albeit not HSA-eligible, because of the way they're structured). So if you're seeing ACA plans with much lower deductibles, consider yourself fortunate.
  • my HSA
    From my specific example, in 2014, I was in an employer HSA (HDHP) eligible plan and made the HSA contribution.
    In 2015, I went to the ACA and chose a non-HSA eligible plan (I did not want the high deductible for my medical costs as no Earned Income, and because I have no Earned Income, the HSA contribution could be wasted as no real effect to reduce Adjusted Gross Income).
    Edit - Therefore, in 2015 with no HDHP plan, I can not make an HSA contribution for the 2015 tax year, is that a correct statement?
    And I have found that at least in the ACA versions, even with the high deductibles, the HSA plans were more expensive, higher deductible but offer the HSA contributions, which therefore are great for high income earners and business owners that can deduct all premiums and HSA contributions.
  • my HSA
    1. Generally, you need to have an eligible HDHP (high deductible health plan) in order to open an HSA. However, if you have an existing HSA, you're allowed to open another one (even without having an eligible HDHP), and transfer/roll over the existing HSA to the new one.
    For example, here's Alliant CU's page:
    To open an Alliant HSA you must be:
    - 18 years of age or older
    - Must be enrolled in a qualified High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP) to make contributions.
    - If not enrolled in a HDHP you are still qualified to roll over or transfer funds from your current HSA
    2. As others have stated, you don't need compensation income in order to contribute to an HSA. AFAIK (this is speculation), you don't need income at all (though you'll waste the deduction that way).
    In order to fund (not open) an HSA, you must have had an eligible HDHP. However, since funding can be retroactive (like an IRA, you can fund it early the next year), you can fund the HSA because you were in an HDHP, even if you aren't currently.
  • my HSA
    I have a general question about the HSA (which is different than the Flexible Savings Accounts, which generally expire in that year). When I was previously employed, my employer switched the health insurance plan offerings to HSA eligible insurance plans that allowed for an HSA account, and that was how I funded the account.
    The previous plans were not HSA eligible.
    Now that I purchase under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) plans, it says which plans are eligible for an opening an HSA account as the contribution can be deducted against Income.
    So two questions: 1. the health insurance plan has to be eligible to open an HSA account (as specified in the ACA plans - I was told the answer for this is Yes, ie, can only fund an HSA with specific IRS approved health insurance plans.
    2. do you need Earned Income (employer or business income) to fund or add funds to an HSA account?
    For those that have an HSA account, did all you have an HSA eligible health insurance plan when it was opened and funded?
  • my HSA
    Thanks for the info. It bothered me enough that I had no idea what "interesting" meant that I tried searching for Archipelago. Got one hit, on boggleheads:
    If I do not want to invest in those 10 funds, looks like I can open a Saturna Brokerage account and buy mutual funds there. It has access to Vanguard funds via "Saturna Brokerage Archipelago", with some stiff conditions to avoid transaction fee:
    I think NTF Vanguard funds qualifies as "interesting". Seems to be a thing of the past, though.
    (Health Savings Administrators does offer Vanguard funds NTF, but they tack on a 32 basis point ER, and like a 12b-1 in excess of 25 basis points, I regard that surcharge as a load.)
    Regardless, Saturna seems to be one of the least expensive ways of owning an HSA without being restricted to a small list of funds provided by Devenir.
    (Devenir's HSA bank fund list, Devenir's Select Account HSA fund list, etc.)
  • my HSA
    Bee, I did not know about the roll over from IRA to HSA. Thank you for that great information. Unless I'm mistaken, this is nothing like a shell game. Money into an IRA is taxed when you take it out, but in an HSA, there is no tax in and no tax out. What could be better then that?
    I have been maxing out my HSA contributions for the last few years and not using the money. I pay for medical expenses with taxed money. But, I have been very lucky that I have had good health, limited expenses. I plan to use the accumulating money in the HSA account as a bridge to pay health insurance when I retire - until medicare kicks in.
    Thanks again. You are a gem to this discussion board.
  • my HSA
    Hi, msf....I am also using my HSA for saving and investing. It's been a few years since I made the switch to Saturna, but I remember that originally I was in one "arm" of the firm, which didn't have a large list of funds, so I switched my HSA to the brokerage "arm". They still do not have the selection of funds that Schwab or TD have, but they offer TRP funds NTF, so that's what I focused on. Again, there are positives and negatives with them, just like with any brokerage. When I start withdrawing cash....who knows...I may decide to switch again.