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WFC in hot water again

Back to Headlines
Wells Fargo & Company Faces Scrutiny for Not Refunding Money Owed to Paid Off Car Loans Early
8:32 AM ET, 08/08/2017 - MT Newswires

08:32 AM EDT, 08/08/2017 (MT Newswires) -- Wells Fargo & Company (WFC) dipped pre-market Tuesday after the New York Times said the company is facing new regulatory scrutiny for allegedly not refunding insurance money owed to customers who paid off car loans early.

The bank also reportedly failed to refund the insurance money to customers whose cars were repossessed by increasing what they owed, PYMNTS.com said.

Comments

  • edited August 2017
    Wells Fargo's Stock Ticker Symbol, WFC = We Fleece Customers. So, it seems, the shearing continues.

  • And yet it's still a core holding in various Parnassus accounts. How bad does Wells Fargo's "G" have to get before Parnassus feels their "ESG" investing philosphy has been violated, and finally drop it from their portfolios?
  • Seems as though there's no bottom in that swamp.
  • wonder if Uncle Warren still likes WFC as a BRK holding.
  • I am amazed this company has any account holders. They HAVE lost some of their big commission producers to other firms, but inertia has a big effect on investors not moving their own accounts. Even bank accounts have not had a major fallout. Yes, I am disappointed in Parnassus, but even more disappointed/surprised in folks who are still holding accounts at WFC.
  • BobC, I'm one of those still holding accounts at Wells. It's like this: my neighborhood branch is a short walk from my home. The people who work there have never tried to fleece me. Once, only once, a new employee guided my wife and I to a type of account we did not need and which charged a monthly fee when the balance was below a rather high balance, something the employee failed to mention. One phone call to the branch manager was all it took to get a refund. That took 3 minutes. Over the years various employees at the local branch have given us good advice about what accounts to open and especially when to close them. It was all to our advantage and not to theirs. Customer service at the national level via telephone has been excellent over many years. Sure, we could transfer our money to another bank but we have no assurances that any other bank will not soon be in the news about a scandal. And I've been banking there for so many years, I guess I'm set in my ways. Maybe I'm just lazy, but the situation presents itself as "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
  • edited August 2017
    Wonder if D&C still holds a big chunk?? ... Just checked - DODGX has 3.7% so invested according to Lipper. Appears to be their 2nd largest equity holding (behind BOA). The WP featured a story the other day about a man who saw his credit score drop 100 points because he couldn't afford to pay for the unnecessary / unwanted auto insurance policy WF took out in his name.

    I've always felt banks didn't need to "rob" people because, in a sense, they can "steal" legally (fees and exhorbitant interest rates). Guess for WF that wasn't enough. Sad commentary on the financial industry.
  • it's broke, badly

    >> no assurances that any other bank will not soon be in the news about a scandal.

    not like this one
  • Most people have access to a locally or regionally owned brick-n-mortar bank or CU; there's no reason to have $ with any mega-bank, including WFC. Local/regionals in my experience are far more customer- and community-oriented.

    The one where I bank, for example, sponsors many community events, several of which benefit the food bank, homeless shelter, etc. The mega-banks in this town do NONE of that.
  • I opened a WF account over 20 years ago when the company I worked for had some kind of a group deal going on with them. I received things like lower interest rates on loans, free notary services, free travelers checks and other odds and ends I wouldn't have qualified for on my own. Also back during that time and before, one needed the services of a "full" service bank to obtain a 'signature guarantee' which credit unions could not supply. I also could not hook up a CU to my brokerage accounts.

    I still have a place holder account at WF for access to the free stuff and also because all of my automatic bill payments and such have been lined up through them for years. A little bit of lazy and more of too many other things to do keeps me there for now.
  • BoA does a ton of community stuff (not defending them one way or the other, just sayin')
  • @davidmoran, just checked and we do indeed have a BoA in these parts now - apparently not until fairly recently - out in the sprawl zone. Have not seen/heard of significant local contributions, which banks in particular tend to advertise loudly and often if they do such, but will keep an eye out for them.
  • My guess is that "local contributions" comes under their advertising budget. In this era of "stockholders first, last, and only", companies justify "community stuff" by how it affects their bottom line. They don't care about their employees, or as WF has amply demonstrated, their customers.

    BTW, one that all customers can take advantage of is BofA's "Museums on Us" - free admission to some museums across the US on the first weekend of every month. Just show some BofA or Merrill Lynch card (debit, credit).
  • in every company I know of or have worked at it comes out of their marketing or PR or relations-devel budget
  • msf
    edited August 2017
    I wasn't making myself clear. I don't regard self promotion as charity. For example, "this program was made possible by a generous grant by ExxonMobil" strikes me as indistinguishable from advertising. It's hardly way up on Maimonides' scale of charitable giving.

    I dug up an interesting law review article (1995) on charitable corporate giving. Clear writing, but long and one probably had to enjoy legal history to read. Encapsulating some of it ...

    It used to be that corporations could only make charitable contributions if they derived a direct corporate benefit. A corporation's "sole ... task was to maximize profits" performing the business it was chartered to do.

    In these "olden days", a corporation was allowed to fund a university chair under the theory that it got a direct benefit - the students educated might wind up as employees of the company.

    Before 1935, tax laws didn't permit corporations to take charitable deductions (only individuals could). But corporations could still write off these contributions as business expenses - since they derived direct benefits.

    Current tax law says that corporations can deduct charitable contributions only if they do not derive direct benefits. Today, if a corporation funded that same university chair, it could get a charitable deduction because the current thinking is that the corporation would not be deriving a direct benefit. Same donation, different treatment.

    Which gets us back to Maimonedes. To move up on the scale of giving, a gift must be anonymous, i.e. not to enhance one's reputation. IRS aside, these corporate contributions/sponsorships are clearly for the purpose of deriving direct benefit. I'd be more, well, charitable in my view if corporations made these donations because it was the right thing to do, as opposed to having something they could attach their name to.

  • Well, be sure to always let the perfect be the defeater of the good. Maybe Maimonides said that as well. Somehow doubt it, as he was also a practical guy sometimes.
    I myself can regularly tell the difference b/w actual ads and corporate sponsorships even at their most backpatting. Having worked on both sides of that transaction, I don't begrudge 'brought to you by a generous grant'. Recipients typically have guidelines on how much backpatting is allowed in the 'ad'.
    Now, try and imagine the state of the arts, of public broadcasting, or medical research, or a vast range of other good works, if all funding had to be anon and without direct benefit. That seems libertarian beyond most libertarians.
    It is, however, wonderful to read the phrase 'right thing to do' this week, and this year.
  • I don't begrudge businesses spending marketing dollars either. That's part of doing business. I just call it what it is. BofA is no different from Wells Fargo in this respect.

    Though somewhat dated, here's an interesting analysis of some megabanks' generosity:

    National Committee For Responsive Philanthropy (Dec 2012), TAKE AND GIVE, The Crimes and Philanthropy of Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase

    "In short, the giving of BofA and Wells is mediocre; that of JPMC is disappointing; that of Goldman is miserly."

    That was the conclusion in terms of dollar amounts as percentage of revenue. When the quality of contributions was analyzed (e.g. how much went to marginalized communities), BofA looked even worse (see Figures 2 and 3 in the report).
  • Oh, should they do more, and they don't do enough? Violent, similarly pious agreement, sure.
  • I'm simply pointing out that WF is as good as BofA when it comes to doing "a ton of community stuff". In the day-to-day stuff (i.e. ordinary customer service), BofA is rated worse year after year.

    The Worst Banks in America (Wells Fargo Isn’t Even No. 1) (9/23/2016)
    "Factoring in complaints, penalties and responsiveness to customer problems, the worst bank is Bank of America, according to a report from consumer finance site ValuePenguin"

    24/7 Wall Street's Customer Service Hall of Shame (Marketwatch, Aug 23, 2016)
    Bank of America is worst bank on the list (#4), with Wells Fargo at #9.

    10 U.S. Companies Employees and Customers Really, Really Hate (Jan 23, 2017)
    24/7 Wall Street combined customer satisfaction (from its own survey and from JD Power) and employee satisfaction (from GlassDoor), to conclude that Bank of America was the second most hated company in 2016, behind only Comcast. Wells Fargo came in fifth.

    Even on banking metrics ("10 measures of financial health related to growth, profitability, capital adequacy and asset quality"), BofA falls nearer the bottom than the others of the "big four". It comes in 97th out of 100 largest banks while the others aren't in the bottom ten.
    Forbes, America's Best And Worst Banks 2017

    Pick a metric, any metric, and BofA is the bank to avoid.

    I'm "not defending [WF] one way or the other, just sayin'" Personally, despite the numbers, I don't see any daylight between BofA and WF and wouldn't introduce either as a better alternative to the other.
  • edited August 2017
    Good to know BoA are so bad. I don't keep up. I could not deal w WF ever. BoA treats me v well, including or especially the local branches in-person c/s, and way more cheaply (rates etc) than other banks around here, and including credit unions. Plus the free ML brokerage. But good to know of their overall awfulness. Phone c/s is not good, for sure, not like Fido, say, although I've had worse.
  • edited August 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • edited August 2017
    None of them are saints. I remember some "boiler room" high-pressure sales pitches for credit card insurance and other products back before we stopped dealing with Citibank 15 years ago. Some of the MF companies (notably TRP) put the banks to shame when it comes to integrity and open-dealing. I don't know if perhaps different regulatory structures account for this? Than again, the MF industry has its share of unethical practices too. Look no further than the marketing of Oppenheimer's "Core Bond Fund" and the lawsuits that came out of the '08 disaster. (I won't even mention Dick Strong.)

    Not really related. However, I lightened up on DODBX early in the year - shifting a lot to RPGAX (both part of my balanced sleeve). Turned out to be a good move - but for the wrong reasons. I was fearful a rout in bonds would ding DODBX more than the other. Yet - a funny thing happened. During the short-lived period of rapidly rising rates last winter/spring DODBX actually started outperforming. What I had missed in my analysis is that the fund's heavy financial holdings (including WF and BOA) actually started rising along with the increasing rates.

    The rise in rates reversed, however, and the fund is experiencing a lackluster year. Still, if you think rates will be going up, DODBX (and probably DODGX) might not be bad places to ride out the storm with their heavy exposure to the financials.

    I'd rather be lucky than good.:)
  • "I'd rather be lucky than good"

    Amen!! :)
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