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International: Thnking about switching

Don't like to jump around, but losing my confidence in Int'l fund managers. Hold VWILX and MGGPX. Thinking of reducing positions and adding to VTSAX, a smoother ride. These guys did weather 2020 pretty well, but are getting beat up now. Stay the course? Thoughts needed!! Thanks!

Comments

  • @Starchild : have you looked at FMIJX ?
  • @Starchild: It has been a rough ride for holders of MGGPX, but BGAFX (Baron) has been even rougher for the past two years. APFDX, also a global growth fund, has had a smoother go of it and I have kept it in favor of the other two. Foreign large growth has been equal to the task of keeping up with the US-domiciled LCG stocks: the problem is that it's been a race to the bottom. As @Derf suggested, foreign LCV looks attractive; FMIJX has a very solid record and some of the best shareholder reports out there. On the basis of the success of Smead Value (which I own), I took a winger on their new international value, SVXAX. If I'm wrong on this pick, I can say I was "early" without dissimulating.
  • How about SCHY ?
  • Thanks for the input gang. Appreciate your wisdom. In 2020, I watched Heugh chart the meltdown with some strategic adds, including Zoom, Disney, etc. that paid off. I'm not really sure what he's doing now, but whatever it is, it's creating some current pain.
  • @Derf @BenWP FMIJX is currency hedged. What do you think about FMIFX, which I believe is very similar to FMIJX but currency unhedged?
  • All good recommendations. I would also take a look at Vanguard core international and YAFFX or YACKX which are really global funds if you look at their portfolios. I also think that DFIV and EWU look interesting because of their sector makeup and value orientation. Personally though I’m not adding any international while Ukraine is mess is going on. I’m still holding MIOPX but likely to sell soon. It’s been painful for intl Large cap growth. That fund was so strong over last 19 years
  • Vanguard core intl is a fairly new Wellington managed fund
  • @Mona: good thought on currency hedging. I think I’d see what the FMI managers had to say about the differences between their two funds. I believe FMIFX is newer.
  • @MikeW: your comment about the Ukraine situation reminds me that they don’t ring a bell at the top or at the bottom, nor do they say when there’s enough blood in the streets to justify buying.
  • Yep you’re right Ben. I guess my point is that a lot of investor funds have been pouring into Europe and it’s significantly outperforming US over last few months. I don’t think they’ve experienced the blood in the streets yet. I think that shoe has yet to drop. But that’s just my opinion.
  • Foreign large cap growth on the other hand has truly experienced pain. I’m talking more about foreign value.
  • Maybe take a look at DODFX. DODGE & Cox.
  • My original thought was not to add another foreign fund, but swap some the the two funds I hold into domestic funds. They're just more volatile for the reward.
  • Starchild said:

    Don't like to jump around, but losing my confidence in Int'l fund managers. Hold VWILX and MGGPX. Thinking of reducing positions and adding to VTSAX, a smoother ride. These guys did weather 2020 pretty well, but are getting beat up now. Stay the course? Thoughts needed!! Thanks!

    If that's the route you want to go, make sure you get the cheapest version of that strategy. I'm not familiar with funds like that, but I would check if there is any variation in how they constitute the entire domestic market.
  • WABAC said:

    Starchild said:

    Don't like to jump around, but losing my confidence in Int'l fund managers. Hold VWILX and MGGPX. Thinking of reducing positions and adding to VTSAX, a smoother ride. These guys did weather 2020 pretty well, but are getting beat up now. Stay the course? Thoughts needed!! Thanks!

    If that's the route you want to go, make sure you get the cheapest version of that strategy. I'm not familiar with funds like that, but I would check if there is any variation in how they constitute the entire domestic market.
    Thanks for the heads up! VTSAX is my largest holding. The rate is something cheap like .03 or .04. I dunno, I guess it's wise to keep some int'l for diversification.
  • Starchild said:

    WABAC said:

    Starchild said:

    Don't like to jump around, but losing my confidence in Int'l fund managers. Hold VWILX and MGGPX. Thinking of reducing positions and adding to VTSAX, a smoother ride. These guys did weather 2020 pretty well, but are getting beat up now. Stay the course? Thoughts needed!! Thanks!

    If that's the route you want to go, make sure you get the cheapest version of that strategy. I'm not familiar with funds like that, but I would check if there is any variation in how they constitute the entire domestic market.
    Thanks for the heads up! VTSAX is my largest holding. The rate is something cheap like .03 or .04. I dunno, I guess it's wise to keep some int'l for diversification.
    I find it easier to stick to things i understand. In the past I have bought things "because" of some reason or another. And I don't do that so much anymore. There are funds out there that do for international what VTSAX does for domestic. Maybe some percentage of an international market fund would suit you better.
  • M* has an article today about DODFX. I am still invested in SVXAX and it has been one of the few bright spots on my very gloomy portfolio picture. A word to the wise: the Smead boys are not afraid of big bets, especially on energy which makes up 28% of the fund. Note also that they hold no EM, no LA, no Asia, no Africa. That comes down to North America and Europe. DODFX, by contrast, has significant EM holdings.
  • Its just hard to find an active manager for equities who can CONSISTENTLY deliver a better risk-adjusted return than the market. A real value of any active manager "should" be a)managing portfolio risk, and b)outperforming their benchmark during a bear market. Most of the active funds just don't have that in their DNAs.

    These days especially with the proliferation of low-ER ETFs -- including many fine ones which focus on divds or other "factors" (low-vol is a favorite of mine) -- at very low fees, the active managers have to make a very persuasive argument.

  • Edmond said:

    Its just hard to find an active manager for equities who can CONSISTENTLY deliver a better risk-adjusted return than the market. A real value of any active manager "should" be a)managing portfolio risk, and b)outperforming their benchmark during a bear market. Most of the active funds just don't have that in their DNAs.

    Rajiv Jain appears to be beating his fund's benchmarks in GSIHX, albeit with 94% turnover in a fund most appropriate in an IRA or similar. That, plus a PGIM EM fund is my foreign exposure. It seems like so long ago that foreign and EM exposure promised so much...not sure how much longer I'll be waiting for this to outperform again.
  • MSF... thanks for the correction

  • Starchild said:

    Don't like to jump around, but losing my confidence in Int'l fund managers. Hold VWILX and MGGPX. Thinking of reducing positions and adding to VTSAX, a smoother ride. These guys did weather 2020 pretty well, but are getting beat up now. Stay the course? Thoughts needed!! Thanks!

    I've owned VWILX for several years.
    The fund has experienced significant losses YTD (-31.11%) and over the trailing 12 months (-34.31%).
    I don't have any plans to sell VWILX in the short-term.
    Guess I'm a glutton for punishment!
  • edited June 2022
    I too have invested in VWILX for awhile when growth stocks were in favor. When long time Baillie Gifford manager, James Anderson announced his retirement, I rotated gradually to value-oriented VG Global Wellington, VGWAX, as part of risk reduction. It worked out well as value stocks started to lead after a decade long trailing the growth stocks. Wellington also runs the VG International Core fund, VWICX. YTD both VGWAX and VWICX are ahead of VWILX.

    In addition, Chinese government interfered with their tech stocks including Alibaba and Tencent that contributed to sizable loss in VWILX.
  • edited June 2022
    @Sven,

    Good move rotating to VGWAX.
    I like VGWAX but prefer separate funds for stocks and bonds.
    I also checked VWICX shortly after inception but decided against investing in this fund.
    Last time I checked VWICX was doing ok YTD.
    So, don't listen to me! :-)


    Edit: Although James Anderson was a great manager and thought leader,
    I wasn't too concerned about his retirement.
    Baillie Gifford has a deep bench and Vanguard takes a thoughtful approach to succession planning.
  • edited June 2022
    Sometime doing ok is good enough for me in this environment. This year many international funds are down 20+ % and VWILX is down over 30%. The 2008's drawdown has taught me that it is much easier to stay invested in conservative funds and they tend to recover in shorter time. YTD VWICX is slightly ahead of VTIAX (its benchmark), -15.7% vs -18.9%, respectively. VGWAX is the least volatile of the funds discussed here. Having 35% bond exposure is not a bad way to reduce risk.

    Same approach also works for emerging market funds.
  • I like FMIJX and JOHAX. They each tend to outperform and underperform at different times. Recently FMIJX has been the winner, so buy JOHAX, hold FMIJX (if you have a position) and vice versa.
  • Starchild said:

    Don't like to jump around, but losing my confidence in Int'l fund managers. Hold VWILX and MGGPX. Thinking of reducing positions and adding to VTSAX, a smoother ride. These guys did weather 2020 pretty well, but are getting beat up now. Stay the course? Thoughts needed!! Thanks!

    I've owned VWILX for several years.
    The fund has experienced significant losses YTD (-31.11%) and over the trailing 12 months (-34.31%).
    I don't have any plans to sell VWILX in the short-term.
    Guess I'm a glutton for punishment!
    Thanks for everyone's input! I haven't made any changes yet to my portfolio yet. Kind of wait and see for now. I'm of the mind, the day after I sell, will be the upswing!
  • edited July 2022
    Starchild said:

    Starchild said:

    Don't like to jump around, but losing my confidence in Int'l fund managers. Hold VWILX and MGGPX. Thinking of reducing positions and adding to VTSAX, a smoother ride. These guys did weather 2020 pretty well, but are getting beat up now. Stay the course? Thoughts needed!! Thanks!

    I've owned VWILX for several years.
    The fund has experienced significant losses YTD (-31.11%) and over the trailing 12 months (-34.31%).
    I don't have any plans to sell VWILX in the short-term.
    Guess I'm a glutton for punishment!
    Thanks for everyone's input! I haven't made any changes yet to my portfolio yet. Kind of wait and see for now. I'm of the mind, the day after I sell, will be the upswing!
    ya, story of my life. Or, after I buy, the thing falls hard. I'm sticking with my bets, anyhow. This is an INTERNATIONAL thread.... I'm still holding TRAMX. And giving QAT a look-see, recently. And there's a garment maker with facilities in Jordan and New Jersey: Jerash. JRSH. A penny stock, making clothing for other companies, who then attach their OWN brand names to the items.
    https://www.barrons.com/market-data/stocks/jrsh?mod=searchresults_companyquotes&mod=searchbar

    I've been to Jerash. Very cool, historical. (2004.)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerash

    "the region of the Gerasenes" (Mark 5:1; Luke 8:26).
    https://jerashholdings.com/
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