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They're Angry, Not Stupid! Why Trump Is Likely To Win Again

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Comments

  • Old_Joe said:

    Well, all of the looting and violence surely isn't going to help the Dems, that's for sure.

    Especially when people try and say it's not even happening. You know, "mainly peaceful protests." I think Biden finally woke up the other day and said that the violence (not mentioned at all during the DNC) needed to stop" and, oh wait a minute, this is happening on Trump's watch. A bit too late for that. Trump saw the opening on this issue and grabbed it with both fists.
  • Kamala already spoke on the matter that she is with the protestors; Pence did not say anything because he lives in Trump's America.
  • edited September 2020
    You've been screaming FOR YEARS stop killing us but it's like nobody is listening... Unarmed person shot dead.... building burnt down (please listen to us) ... more unarmed people shot dead... businesses looted (please listen to us).... decisions... decisions... which is wrong? A couple dead people gone and a couple business have to rebuild... would you rather lose your business or lose a family member? I don't condone either but I understand the anger.
  • something that may support @wxman123 ...
    or may do the opposite

    his take is crude and comically overstated, typical of those so easily swayed, who only watch TV (and whose numbers are legion)

    >> The perception is that Chicago is a crime nightmare; San Fran is becoming a cesspool and now even normally quiet spots like Portland are becoming like third-world countries.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/nyregion/nyc-shootings-murders.html
  • Buncha polls out today, Wednesday. Biden's national lead vs. Trump has dropped to 7.2% from 7.4%. Trouble is, the f****** Electoral College. So the election has to be won State by State. Even so, 538 and 270towin already show Biden/Harris over the necessary 270. Trump NEEDS FL. And it's amazing to me--- and rather indicative--- that even Texas is at least not predicted to be a runaway win for the Repugnants.
  • something that may support @wxman123 ...
    or may do the opposite

    his take is crude and comically overstated, typical of those so easily swayed, who only watch TV (and whose numbers are legion)

    >> The perception is that Chicago is a crime nightmare; San Fran is becoming a cesspool and now even normally quiet spots like Portland are becoming like third-world countries.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/nyregion/nyc-shootings-murders.html

    So you resort to personal attacks. That IS so typical of elite narrow-minded people who think others are the fool. My friend, as Tucker says, when people like you say what you say in criticism you likely are doing the same thing yourself, magnified. As Obama so famously said, "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." I recall vividly my NYC friends laughing at Trump and the "fools" who support him. And then driving to client meetings through the Midwest and seeing barns and lawn signs supporting Trump, everywhere. I returned saying this guy is going to win. I am not "easily swayed" just because I don't share your (apparent) point of view. I don't need to post "statistics" since everyone knows how easily they can portray a false picture. Someone posted how the highest crime states are run by republicans. I could have replied, true, but people focus on Chicago not Illinois...and that the highest crime cities are run by democrats. But that's an endless loop -- define "crime"; define "violence"; how are the statistics compiled? Pointless. The "Shadow" says that Kamala "spoke on the matter" as though people won't notice that there was not a single word of the rioting at the DNC, one of the most important issues in the country right now. That's narrow-minded to me, and it doesn't matter how many left-wingers jump to his defense on a mutual fund forum. So, I see what I see and develop opinions which I think are reasonably informed based on those observations. The problem for your side is that so does much of the country, nothing "comical" or overstated about it.
  • edited September 2020
    How much did you hear about Covid at the RNC as you say "one of the most important issues in the country right now." They acted like it was a thing of the past....unfortunately that's politics... I have no idea what the stats are but I think a lot more people died of Covid than crime the last 6 months. ADD: The RNC is hoping to scare people into voting for them via crime in some DEM cities.... the DNC is hoping to scare people to vote for them by focusing on the incompetence of the GOP.
  • edited September 2020
    And this was new information to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

    We don't need to kill the Electoral College, after all. Whoever dreamed this up deserves a medal.
  • royal4 said:

    How much did you hear about Covid at the RNC as you say "one of the most important issues in the country right now." They acted like it was a thing of the past....unfortunately that's politics... I have no idea what the stats are but I think a lot more people died of Covid than crime the last 6 months. ADD: The RNC is hoping to scare people into voting for them via crime in some DEM cities.... the DNC is hoping to scare people to vote for them by focusing on the incompetence of the GOP.


    This idea that Trump botched the covid response is widespread, and many say Biden would have handled it better. I predict that flips for Trump by election night. First, the initial outbreak happened while dems, specifically including Biden and Pelosi, were downplaying the virus and bashing Trump's air travel ban as "xenophobic." Trump did something out of the gate when a President Biden would have done nothing. Second, wearing masks seemed like a wise move from the jump, yet the "science" that Biden says he would have followed said mask wearing was unnecessary, even counterproductive. Even that "fool" Tucker (no fan of the lock down) said over and over, "does the media think we're stupid"? If masks were bad why is there this concern that there won't be enough masks for front-line workers? Third, Trump will rightly compare Cuomo's disastrous response an example of what a Biden response would have looked like. California too. Fourth, the notion that the U.S. trails the world on covid response is murky at best and is mostly moving in Trump's favor over time. Some "good" countries turned bad and the U.S. is doing OK (not great, but not the worst of the developed countries) in the most important category, the death rate from Covid (again statistics hard to compare since what we call a covid death may be classified as something different elsewhere). And, one more point...I spend at least an hour a day watching MSNBC with an open mind and spend additional time reading liberal news outlets. How many people piling on my views watch FOX news everyday? Just sayin'. Peace.
  • edited September 2020
    How inaction on the virus will be a plus for Trump by election day is an odd opinion. We'll most likely be at 250,000 dead by that point. Trump has done NOTHING to implement a nationwide approach to dealing with this virus. and has done NOTHING to limit its spread once the virus was know to exist in this country. We've become an object of pity.

    It all revolves around his inability, indeed a lack of interest in governing. He wanted the power of the Presidency...doing the job of President, not so much.
  • msf
    edited September 2020
    Pelosi, were downplaying the virus and bashing Trump's air travel ban [on travel from China out of concern for the spread of the novel coronavirus] as "xenophobic."

    While it's difficult to prove a negative, it should be easy to substantiate a positive, i.e. that Pelosi did bash the January 31 suspension and limitation of entry. Something, anything, please?

    On the same January 31st, Pelosi did issue a statement critical of an extension of the 2017 travel ban to additional, mostly African nations. Take care not to confuse the two.
    https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/13120-2

    You might run across a video doing just that. (The Pelosi statement, in the form of a tweet, is shown at the 4 minute mark.) Here's a relatively short FactCheck.org piece about this video.
    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/video-misconstrues-pelosi-tweet-on-un-american-travel-ban/

    Calling the executive order a travel ban is not inaccurate, but it is imprecise. It does not make clear that this partial ban allowed unfettered travel by US citizens and permanent residents (Section 2(a)(i)). As Ron Klain (Obama's Ebola response coordinator and first of VP Biden's chiefs of staff) said, "There's not a lot of science behind the color of your passport [allowing] entry into the United States".
    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/publichealth/84834

    The ban at the time, such as it was, was based on nationality. While Pelosi might not have called it xenophobic (evidence to the contrary invited), the ban itself was indicative of that mindset.

    Again, perceptions don't match reality. Not in what Pelosi said, not in the porous (and discriminatory) nature of the travel ban. If you want to say that this is what people think happened, you'll get no disagreement. But saying that this is what actually happened calls for substantiation.
  • msf said:

    Pelosi, were downplaying the virus and bashing Trump's air travel ban [on travel from China out of concern for the spread of the novel coronavirus] as "xenophobic."

    While it's difficult to prove a negative, it should be easy to substantiate a positive, i.e. that Pelosi did bash the January 31 suspension and limitation of entry. Something, anything, please?

    On the same January 31st, Pelosi did issue a statement critical of an extension of the 2017 travel ban to additional, mostly African nations. Take care not to confuse the two.
    https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/13120-2

    You might run across a video doing just that. (The Pelosi statement, in the form of a tweet, is shown at the 4 minute mark.) Here's a relatively short FactCheck.org piece about this video.
    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/video-misconstrues-pelosi-tweet-on-un-american-travel-ban/

    Calling the executive order a travel ban is not inaccurate, but it is imprecise. It does not make clear that this partial ban allowed unfettered travel by US citizens and permanent residents (Section 2(a)(i)). As Ron Klain (Obama's Ebola response coordinator and first of VP Biden's chiefs of staff) said, "There's not a lot of science behind the color of your passport [allowing] entry into the United States".
    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/publichealth/84834

    The ban at the time, such as it was, was based on nationality. While Pelosi might not have called it xenophobic (evidence to the contrary invited), the ban itself was indicative of that mindset.

    Again, perceptions don't match reality. Not in what Pelosi said, not in the porous (and discriminatory) nature of the travel ban. If you want to say that this is what people think happened, you'll get no disagreement. But saying that this is what actually happened calls for substantiation.



    As Ricky said to Lucy, way too much "'splaining." Dissecting words is the province of people who have a losing argument. Are you saying Biden supported Trump's air travel bans? That Pelosi didn't implore people to come to Chinatown just as Covid was becoming a national issue? The ban was NOT based on nationality. It was based on where Covid was thought to be. How would president Biden have done it? I certainly did not see him saying the travel ban was a good idea in any respect. In my opinion he is going to look like a fool trying to say he would have done a better job given the statements he and other prominent Dems made at the time. (Not to mention the nursing home murders in NJ and NY at the hands of dem policy directives.) There are legion you tube posts making my point ... and just as many posts trying to "debunk" what normal people thought they heard and saw.

  • Calling the executive order a travel ban is not inaccurate, but it is imprecise. It does not make clear that this partial ban allowed unfettered travel by US citizens and permanent residents (Section 2(a)(i)). As Ron Klain (Obama's Ebola response coordinator and first of VP Biden's chiefs of staff) said, "There's not a lot of science behind the color of your passport [allowing] entry into the United States".
    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/publichealth/84834


    Had to address this separately. Are you saying that a country allowing it's own residents and citizens to return home despite a travel ban from a certain region is proof of racism or xenophobia? I'm not going to spend the time you probably have (but I don't) to research this issue but I would think it common to allow citizens to repatriate despite a travel ban.
  • msf
    edited September 2020
    Dissecting words? I quoted a single assertion you made. Was it true or false?

    As you wrote, way too much "splaining". Stick to the Pelosi statement and skip the distractions. I made a simple suggestion: if it is a fact that she said what you stated, provide a quote. That should be easy, There are legion you tube posts making [your] point
  • msf
    edited September 2020
    wxman123 said:

    Had to address this separately. Are you saying that a country allowing it's own residents and citizens to return home despite a travel ban from a certain region is proof of racism or xenophobia? I'm not going to spend the time you probably have (but I don't) to research this issue but I would think it common to allow citizens to repatriate despite a travel ban.

    US citizens and permanent residents were free to go to China after the ban was instituted, to get exposed, and to return. Unfettered travel.
    How Do Repatriation Flights Work? ... These flights, which usually have some very grateful passengers on board, are organized by governments and airlines to bring home citizens who were stuck abroad when COVID-19 travel restrictions went into place.
    https://www.cntraveler.com/story/how-do-repatriation-flights-work
  • msf said:

    Dissecting words? I quoted a single assertion you made. Was it true or false?

    As you wrote, way too much "splaining". Stick to the Pelosi statement and skip the distractions. I made a simple suggestion: if it is a fact that she said what you stated, provide a quote. That should be easy, There are legion you tube posts making [your] point

  • wxman123 said:

    msf said:


    I must have missed the part where one could hear 'Pelosi ... bashing Trump's air travel ban as "xenophobic."'

    I'll make it easy for you. Here's Pelosi's press release with the remarks she made. I think you'll find it accurate, and more complete (e.g. it includes remarks that were visible but inaudible on the video). She invited people from around the world to visit San Francisco's Chinatown, and as near as I can tell, never mentioned Trump, let alone a travel ban or xenophobia.

    Which lines are you reading between, because in this meeting she had, she didn't bash a travel ban?
    https://pelosi.house.gov/news/press-releases/pelosi-remarks-at-media-availability-following-visit-to-san-francisco-s


  • MSF, you're embarrassing yourself at this point notwithstanding you mutual fund forum fan club. You've made some good points but picking on my statement is not one of them. My statement was this: " First, the initial outbreak happened while dems, specifically including Biden and Pelosi, were downplaying the virus and bashing Trump's air travel ban as "xenophobic." You dissected my words -- exactly as I said you did -- to claim that Pelosi (specifically) never criticized the travel ban (specifically). That is weak sauce indeed. Pelosi made her chinatown remarks after the ban. Her core point was the optics of her freely moving about with the Chinese while trump was "banning the Chinese." Her sub point was that everything was safe covid-wise. Really? I wonder how many cases were spread with that idiotic stunt alone. Just read the comments following the you tube video. As I said, you have some good points but this is silly stuff now. No need to come back with more "proof" on this one. The dems downplayed the virus as a strategy to mock trump early on. Even Cuomo praised Trump for his response, yet now calls that response a "disaster." It is what it is (where have I heard that before)?
  • msf said:

    wxman123 said:

    Had to address this separately. Are you saying that a country allowing it's own residents and citizens to return home despite a travel ban from a certain region is proof of racism or xenophobia? I'm not going to spend the time you probably have (but I don't) to research this issue but I would think it common to allow citizens to repatriate despite a travel ban.

    US citizens and permanent residents were free to go to China after the ban was instituted, to get exposed, and to return. Unfettered travel.
    How Do Repatriation Flights Work? ... These flights, which usually have some very grateful passengers on board, are organized by governments and airlines to bring home citizens who were stuck abroad when COVID-19 travel restrictions went into place.
    https://www.cntraveler.com/story/how-do-repatriation-flights-work
    Again, so you believe that the fact that Trump did not outlaw Americans (including American's of Chinese descent) from going to and fro to China during the covid outbreak made the ban xenophobic and racist? Were there even commercial flights after the restrictions? How many Americans were running to china and returning to spread covid? Allow me to suggest that you have focused on a nonissue while overlooking the main issue: Trump's travel ban seemed like a reasonable and significant step towards trying to stop the spread.
  • You talk about optics. Your perceptions. While what she was doing was hometown boosterism.

    What you perceive as a slight ("bashing") to the travel ban is a facially affirmative appeal to visit her district's Chinatown (boosterism). "We should come to Chinatown ... and hope that others will come."

    I'm not sure where her presentation might create even an impression that she was bashing the ban as xenophobic. If anything, she was speaking to germaphobia, as you noted: "Her sub point was that everything was safe covid-wise".
    Q: Madam Speaker, how irrational is it that people are staying away from Asian-owned business – not only here, but all over the U.S.?

    Speaker Pelosi. Well, that’s one of the reasons we are here today. It doesn’t make any sense, but it’s not just Asian-owned now. You see in Italy where the shows – the fashion shows and all of that were done without an audience because people – they just didn’t – because people were not coming. So, again, this fear is – I think – unwarranted in light of the precautions that are being taken here in the United States. I can’t speak for any other country.
    We agree, she was wrong. The precautions being taken in the United States at the time were not adequate.
  • wxman123 said:


    Again, so you believe that the fact that Trump did not outlaw Americans (including American's of Chinese descent) from going to and fro to China during the covid outbreak made the ban xenophobic and racist? Were there even commercial flights after the restrictions? How many Americans were running to china and returning to spread covid?

    Interesting that you interject racism. I never raised that, and prior to now, neither had you.

    How many Americans were running to china and returning to spread covid?
    Due to inadequate screening we'll never know.
    In all, 279 flights from China have arrived in the United States [between Feb 2 and April 4], and screening procedures have been uneven, interviews show..
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html

    Were there even commercial flights?
    2020-02-08 Notice on Air China's flights adjustment from China to the United States

    Dear passengers,

    The epidemic has seriously impacted on the aviation market. In order to help meet the needs for the cultural and business exchanges between the two countries and maintain air links to major cities of the United States, Air China has decided to make adjustments to its capacity input, route structure and flights, continuing its operations on the routes from Beijing to Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York and Washington D.C, with arrangements specified below. Air China will actively guarantee passenger ticket services after such changes and apologize for the impact on your travel plan.
    ...
    Flight information:

    A. Beijing-Los Angeles-San Francisco (round-trip)

    Flight no.: CA983/4

    Aircraft type: B777-300/B787-9

    Frequency: Tue/Thu/Fri/Sun

    Schedule: Beijing 1830 1430 Los Angeles 1800 1930 San Francisco

    San Francisco 2130 2300 Los Angeles 0040+1 0530+2 Beijing

    Date of commencement: February 11, 2020 (Tuesday)


    B. Beijing-New York Kennedy -Washington D.C.(round-trip)

    Flight No.: CA981 / 2

    Aircraft type: B777-300

    Frequency: Mon/Wed/Sat

    Schedule: Beijing 1300 1330 New York Kennedy 1700 1830 Washington D.C.

    Washington D.C. 2200 2330 New York Kennedy 0130+1 0435+2 Beijing


    Date of commencement: February 12, 2020 (Wednesday)
    https://www.airchina.us/US/GB/info/news/
  • wxman123 said:

    royal4 said:

    How much did you hear about Covid at the RNC as you say "one of the most important issues in the country right now." They acted like it was a thing of the past....unfortunately that's politics... I have no idea what the stats are but I think a lot more people died of Covid than crime the last 6 months. ADD: The RNC is hoping to scare people into voting for them via crime in some DEM cities.... the DNC is hoping to scare people to vote for them by focusing on the incompetence of the GOP.


    This idea that Trump botched the covid response is widespread, and many say Biden would have handled it better. I predict that flips for Trump by election night. First, the initial outbreak happened while dems, specifically including Biden and Pelosi, were downplaying the virus and bashing Trump's air travel ban as "xenophobic." Trump did something out of the gate when a President Biden would have done nothing. Second, wearing masks seemed like a wise move from the jump, yet the "science" that Biden says he would have followed said mask wearing was unnecessary, even counterproductive. Even that "fool" Tucker (no fan of the lock down) said over and over, "does the media think we're stupid"? If masks were bad why is there this concern that there won't be enough masks for front-line workers? Third, Trump will rightly compare Cuomo's disastrous response an example of what a Biden response would have looked like. California too. Fourth, the notion that the U.S. trails the world on covid response is murky at best and is mostly moving in Trump's favor over time. Some "good" countries turned bad and the U.S. is doing OK (not great, but not the worst of the developed countries) in the most important category, the death rate from Covid (again statistics hard to compare since what we call a covid death may be classified as something different elsewhere). And, one more point...I spend at least an hour a day watching MSNBC with an open mind and spend additional time reading liberal news outlets. How many people piling on my views watch FOX news everyday? Just sayin'. Peace.
    It doesn't matter what Biden would or wouldn't have done....Trump is president. We're about the bottom of the barrel as far as outcomes...once again Trump is president.
  • "Interesting that you interject racism. I never raised that, and prior to now, neither had you." The distinction between xenophobia and racism is irrelevant as to the criticism leveled against Trump for the travel ban. The point was that Trump was shutting out those "different" people in a manner not supported by fact or science. Why not just say that you think the travel ban (whatever it was technically called) and regardless of the precise words why it was criticized was a bad idea? Biden would not have done it, and rightly so. That should be feather in Biden's cap. Isn't that YOUR point? If so, make it clearly. If not, why do you keep the debate going? Do Just like to win? Have the last word? Hope you're not this way in real life with real people.

  • "It doesn't matter what Biden would or wouldn't have done....Trump is president. We're about the bottom of the barrel as far as outcomes...once again Trump is president."

    And that bottom of that barrel are the states listed on the chart below with deaths/1m population. What do those states with the horrible (scary) numbers (greater than 1K) have in common? Who stopped these great democratic governors from doing whatever they wanted to stop the "disaster"? It seems pretty clear they created the disaster that made us the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
  • edited September 2020
    Hawaii, where I live, is deep Blue. Covid is outa control now. That wasn't the case, early on. When everything began to be re-opened is when everything went South. I'm learning that State gov't and its agencies here will screw up even an old-fashioned "Chinese Fire Drill." And in terms of numbers: Hawaii would compare very well (#45) in terms of the numbers of Covid cases, AND, unfortunately, deaths. But it's all about proportion. Apples to Apples, eh?

    .....But to beat this pandemic requires strong leadership at the NATIONAL level, at the top. What we have at the top just now is a President choosing to IGNORE his responsibility. That leaves 50 State Governors to fend for themselves, while the tRumpster plays "Gaslight."
  • edited September 2020
    Doug Ducey- Governor of Arizona Republican
    Brian Kemp - Governor of Georgia Republican
    Ron DeSantis - Governor of Florida Republican
    Greg Abbott - Governor of Texas Republican
    J.B Pritzker - Governor of Illinois Democrat
    Gavin Newsom - Governor or California Democrat

    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?utm_source=morning_brew#cases

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_governors#:~:text=As of January 2020, there,26 states with Republican governors.

    "As of January 2020, there are 24 states with Democratic governors and 26 states with Republican governors."

    This is self-explanatory.
  • msf
    edited September 2020
    The distinction between xenophobia and racism is irrelevant.
    So you introduced racism as a distraction? What happened to KISS?

    Biden would not have done it, and rightly so. That should be feather in Biden's cap. Isn't that YOUR point?

    No, my point concerns your posts. You sometimes post as facts what are at best perceptions. I selected an example; you distracted (see above), you diverted (asking for MY thoughts on something other than the veracity of the purported fact).

    This practice doesn't help in making an underlying point. As Moynihan said,“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.” But see @WABABC's post on postmodern conservatism.
  • TheShadow said:

    Doug Ducey- Governor of Arizona Republican
    Brian Kemp - Governor of Georgia Republican
    Ron DeSantis - Governor of Florida Republican
    Greg Abbott - Governor of Texas Republican
    J.B Pritzker - Governor of Illinois Democrat
    Gavin Newsom - Governor or California Democrat

    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?utm_source=morning_brew#cases

    image
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/03/seven-in-10-new-coronavirus-cases-are-emerging-red-states/
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